Property Investment in Portugal

[Thomas Youngman]

Hi,

The purpose of this post is to connect with anyone interested/actively investing in the Portuguese Real Estate market. 

I am moving to Portugal in March 2019 and wanted to connect with fellow Property investors. There seems to be an interesting investment case for Portugal currently and by building a supportive network of investors we will be able to discuss opportunities and build our experience faster than if we go it alone

When I arrive in March I will be focusing on learning the market and seeing which strategies will work for me. 

Thanks

Thomas

[Riaan Knoetze]

Quote from @Benjamin Werner:

Hi Joshua, I replied your DM.

Btw, I checked out the recent 2021 census data in Portugal and here are the Top-20 Municipios by resident (relative) population growth.

Interesting to see the dynamism led by Municipios around Lisbon e.g. Alcochete, Arruda dos Vinhos, Cascais, Mafra, Montijo, Palmela, Seixal, Sesimbra, Sobral de Monte Agraço, Torres Vedras. Maybe some hidden gems there? ;-)
But also quite interesting/surprising (for me) the Algarve. Because mind you, this numbers is resident population and not tourists.

Municipio	Growth	Resident population (No.)
Albufeira	8,2%	44.168
Alcochete	9,0%	19.145
Arruda dos Vinhos	4,5%	13.992
Braga	6,5%	193.349
Cascais	3,7%	214.158
Faro	4,0%	67.650
Lagoa	3,3%	23.734
Lagos	7,9%	33.500
Mafra	12,8%	86.521
Montijo	8,7%	55.689
Odemira	13,5%	29.576
Palmela	9,6%	68.856
Portimão	7,6%	59.867
São Brás de Alportel	5,5%	11.248
Seixal	5,2%	166.525
Sesimbra	5,8%	52.394
Sobral de Monte Agraço	3,8%	10.541
Tavira	5,2%	27.530
Torres Vedras	4,5%	83.075
Vila do Bispo	8,7%	5.717

 This is fascinating - I live in one of the cities mentioned here and invest in the other 🙂. Out of interest, @Benjamin Werner can you share the source of that data? Would love to have an easy-to-reference link in future.

[Riaan Knoetze]

Quote from @Alistair Toffoli:

Hi everyone,

I'm Alistair from Milan, Italy. Big fan of Portugal, and interested in investing there. 

Anyone with experience in the real estate market in Lagos? In particular, I'd love to invest in a property and making it a vacation rental.

Also, I work in the STR industry so happy to connect and exchange ideas on the topic!

Cheers

---

 Hey @Alistair Toffoli - I live in Lagos and while I don't have any investment properties here, I've got a few friends that do. Happy to answer any questions you might have 🙂

[Benjamin Werner]

Hi @Riaan Knoetze sorry for my late reply!

The census raw data can be accessed from the National Statistical Institute of Portugal website ww.ine.pt
Feel free to check out my following extract: https://docs.google.com/spread...

[Derek H.]

This seems like the most active Portugal string. Any investors or agents in Porto? Going for second trip in January for some more research. 

[Joshua Beneventi]

Hi @Derek H.! I can connect you to my business partner who is an expert in the Porto market. Will send a DM. 

[Willian Oliveira]

Hi guys,

I live in Ireland but invest in Setúbal, Portugal. 

I'm looking for a good accountant and tax expert when it comes to invest properties. I'd love some recommendations of people you already work with.

Tks

Will

[Kate Van de Goor]

Quote from @Joao Antonio:

Hi Kate,

I just came last week from Azores and it seems not only a beautiful place but also great potential for STR. I will soon share some numbers of an analysis I did for that market.

-> Where to find people (architects, surveyors, etc): it’s hard to find people who operate on a national level, except for the main real estate agents. My suggestion is to study first the numbers / cities / markets and once you know your zones / cities of interest, look for people who can help you locally. For that you can use Google, FB and even Upwork. I recently started working with a surveyor that operates nationwide (www.valtecsa.pt). They will evaluate the property, eventual costs with repairs, etc - depending on the service you asks and their fees are about 250 EUR per report. I can share my point of contact of interests you.

-> How i do it: I personally like to do market analysis and then i do drive throughs + online search (www.idealista.pt is one of the best ones)

-> Mortage brokers: maxfinance.pt, www.decisoesesolucoes.com/intermediacao-credito, www.cafpi.pt, https://www.planos100.pt

-> Rehab - funding: being a foreign it’s not a problem, you can setup a company and still apply. There are consulting companies who do this (for a fee) and i can also share some contacts if you need some. 

Hope it helps and have a lovely day!

 Hello Joao,

Do you know if there is a site that has statistics that show what properties in a given area have sold for in Portugal?  

Thanks for any info and have a good day.

Kind regards,

Kate

[Kate Van de Goor]

Quote from @Juan Correia:

Originally posted by @Kate Van de Goor:

Hi everyone, 

This thread seems to be exactly what I was hoping to find! I'm new to the forums but I've been listening to the podcasts and webinars for a while. I'm hoping you are willing to help me with recommendations or advice.

Background: I'm scouting in Portugal in October. I want to purchase property(ies) over time and work towards a D7 visa using passive rental income as part of the financial requirement. I won't be able to move for a couple of years.

I'd like to view available properties when I visit - if that's possible. I'm looking at Coimbra, Porto, Ponta Delgada, Evora and a couple cities in the Algarve. What are your thoughts on rental properties in Portugal? Originally I wanted to purchase small multi-family but I haven't seen that in the listings I've searched. So now I'm thinking flats or small houses in towns that would be attractive to multiple markets (potentially expats, tourists, students, locals).

1. Can anyone recommend good real estate agents and property managers in the cities above?

2. What do you find to be the best avenue for rentals in Portugal?  Do people have reservations about long-term rentals - are short-term rentals better?

3. What missteps should I be wary of?

4. Are some banks better for mortgages than others (in terms of down payment, interest rate, length of mortgage etc.)?

5. Anything else you think is useful to know?

Thanks in advance for your time and for any information, I truly appreciate it.

Kind regards,
Kate

 Hi Kate, first things first, wellcome to Portugal :) I hope everything goes well.

Answering the questions:

1- In the Algarve I recommend Golden Algarve. However, you should explore REMAX, KW and ERA, which are really strong here.

2- Depends on the location. I would say that Porto, Lisbon and Algarve will work better for STR and Vacation rentals, Coimbra for student rentals and Ponta Delgada I don't know.

3- You should be careful about location. Like everywhere else, one street makes a huge difference on the price. Also, get a good attorney and a good CPA, given that the laws and taxes are heavy.

4- It depends. I would say that for real state loans, Bankinter, Santander and Caixa Geral de Depositos are the best. Caixa de Credito is good, but it depends on the branch.

5- I think you should get to know the market before investing. I mean, get to know Lisbon before you go to Porto, because they are very different markets. Actually, I would start maybe with smaller markets like Algarve, or Coimbra, but that's me...

Best of luck!!

Hi Juan, 

Do you know if there is a site that has statistics that show what properties in a given area have sold for in Portugal?

Thanks for any info and have a good day.

Kind regards,

Kate

[Juan Correia]

Quote from @Kate Van de Goor:

Quote from @Juan Correia:

Originally posted by @Kate Van de Goor:

Hi everyone, 

This thread seems to be exactly what I was hoping to find! I'm new to the forums but I've been listening to the podcasts and webinars for a while. I'm hoping you are willing to help me with recommendations or advice.

Background: I'm scouting in Portugal in October. I want to purchase property(ies) over time and work towards a D7 visa using passive rental income as part of the financial requirement. I won't be able to move for a couple of years.

I'd like to view available properties when I visit - if that's possible. I'm looking at Coimbra, Porto, Ponta Delgada, Evora and a couple cities in the Algarve. What are your thoughts on rental properties in Portugal? Originally I wanted to purchase small multi-family but I haven't seen that in the listings I've searched. So now I'm thinking flats or small houses in towns that would be attractive to multiple markets (potentially expats, tourists, students, locals).

1. Can anyone recommend good real estate agents and property managers in the cities above?

2. What do you find to be the best avenue for rentals in Portugal?  Do people have reservations about long-term rentals - are short-term rentals better?

3. What missteps should I be wary of?

4. Are some banks better for mortgages than others (in terms of down payment, interest rate, length of mortgage etc.)?

5. Anything else you think is useful to know?

Thanks in advance for your time and for any information, I truly appreciate it.

Kind regards,
Kate

 Hi Kate, first things first, wellcome to Portugal :) I hope everything goes well.

Answering the questions:

1- In the Algarve I recommend Golden Algarve. However, you should explore REMAX, KW and ERA, which are really strong here.

2- Depends on the location. I would say that Porto, Lisbon and Algarve will work better for STR and Vacation rentals, Coimbra for student rentals and Ponta Delgada I don't know.

3- You should be careful about location. Like everywhere else, one street makes a huge difference on the price. Also, get a good attorney and a good CPA, given that the laws and taxes are heavy.

4- It depends. I would say that for real state loans, Bankinter, Santander and Caixa Geral de Depositos are the best. Caixa de Credito is good, but it depends on the branch.

5- I think you should get to know the market before investing. I mean, get to know Lisbon before you go to Porto, because they are very different markets. Actually, I would start maybe with smaller markets like Algarve, or Coimbra, but that's me...

Best of luck!!

Hi Juan, 

Do you know if there is a site that has statistics that show what properties in a given area have sold for in Portugal?

Thanks for any info and have a good day.

Kind regards,

Kate

Hi Kate, yes:

www.idealista.pt

www.pordata.pt

www.imovirtual.pt

[Kate Van de Goor]

Quote from @Juan Correia:

Quote from @Kate Van de Goor:

Quote from @Juan Correia:

Originally posted by @Kate Van de Goor:

Hi everyone, 

This thread seems to be exactly what I was hoping to find! I'm new to the forums but I've been listening to the podcasts and webinars for a while. I'm hoping you are willing to help me with recommendations or advice.

Background: I'm scouting in Portugal in October. I want to purchase property(ies) over time and work towards a D7 visa using passive rental income as part of the financial requirement. I won't be able to move for a couple of years.

I'd like to view available properties when I visit - if that's possible. I'm looking at Coimbra, Porto, Ponta Delgada, Evora and a couple cities in the Algarve. What are your thoughts on rental properties in Portugal? Originally I wanted to purchase small multi-family but I haven't seen that in the listings I've searched. So now I'm thinking flats or small houses in towns that would be attractive to multiple markets (potentially expats, tourists, students, locals).

1. Can anyone recommend good real estate agents and property managers in the cities above?

2. What do you find to be the best avenue for rentals in Portugal?  Do people have reservations about long-term rentals - are short-term rentals better?

3. What missteps should I be wary of?

4. Are some banks better for mortgages than others (in terms of down payment, interest rate, length of mortgage etc.)?

5. Anything else you think is useful to know?

Thanks in advance for your time and for any information, I truly appreciate it.

Kind regards,
Kate

 Hi Kate, first things first, wellcome to Portugal :) I hope everything goes well.

Answering the questions:

1- In the Algarve I recommend Golden Algarve. However, you should explore REMAX, KW and ERA, which are really strong here.

2- Depends on the location. I would say that Porto, Lisbon and Algarve will work better for STR and Vacation rentals, Coimbra for student rentals and Ponta Delgada I don't know.

3- You should be careful about location. Like everywhere else, one street makes a huge difference on the price. Also, get a good attorney and a good CPA, given that the laws and taxes are heavy.

4- It depends. I would say that for real state loans, Bankinter, Santander and Caixa Geral de Depositos are the best. Caixa de Credito is good, but it depends on the branch.

5- I think you should get to know the market before investing. I mean, get to know Lisbon before you go to Porto, because they are very different markets. Actually, I would start maybe with smaller markets like Algarve, or Coimbra, but that's me...

Best of luck!!

Hi Juan, 

Do you know if there is a site that has statistics that show what properties in a given area have sold for in Portugal?

Thanks for any info and have a good day.

Kind regards,

Kate

Hi Kate, yes:

www.idealista.pt

www.pordata.pt

www.imovirtual.pt

 Thank you very much. Do you know if any of these show what the properties would be appraised at (by the bank)?  

[Juan Correia]

Quote from @Kate Van de Goor:

Quote from @Juan Correia:

Quote from @Kate Van de Goor:

Quote from @Juan Correia:

Originally posted by @Kate Van de Goor:

Hi everyone, 

This thread seems to be exactly what I was hoping to find! I'm new to the forums but I've been listening to the podcasts and webinars for a while. I'm hoping you are willing to help me with recommendations or advice.

Background: I'm scouting in Portugal in October. I want to purchase property(ies) over time and work towards a D7 visa using passive rental income as part of the financial requirement. I won't be able to move for a couple of years.

I'd like to view available properties when I visit - if that's possible. I'm looking at Coimbra, Porto, Ponta Delgada, Evora and a couple cities in the Algarve. What are your thoughts on rental properties in Portugal? Originally I wanted to purchase small multi-family but I haven't seen that in the listings I've searched. So now I'm thinking flats or small houses in towns that would be attractive to multiple markets (potentially expats, tourists, students, locals).

1. Can anyone recommend good real estate agents and property managers in the cities above?

2. What do you find to be the best avenue for rentals in Portugal?  Do people have reservations about long-term rentals - are short-term rentals better?

3. What missteps should I be wary of?

4. Are some banks better for mortgages than others (in terms of down payment, interest rate, length of mortgage etc.)?

5. Anything else you think is useful to know?

Thanks in advance for your time and for any information, I truly appreciate it.

Kind regards,
Kate

 Hi Kate, first things first, wellcome to Portugal :) I hope everything goes well.

Answering the questions:

1- In the Algarve I recommend Golden Algarve. However, you should explore REMAX, KW and ERA, which are really strong here.

2- Depends on the location. I would say that Porto, Lisbon and Algarve will work better for STR and Vacation rentals, Coimbra for student rentals and Ponta Delgada I don't know.

3- You should be careful about location. Like everywhere else, one street makes a huge difference on the price. Also, get a good attorney and a good CPA, given that the laws and taxes are heavy.

4- It depends. I would say that for real state loans, Bankinter, Santander and Caixa Geral de Depositos are the best. Caixa de Credito is good, but it depends on the branch.

5- I think you should get to know the market before investing. I mean, get to know Lisbon before you go to Porto, because they are very different markets. Actually, I would start maybe with smaller markets like Algarve, or Coimbra, but that's me...

Best of luck!!

Hi Juan, 

Do you know if there is a site that has statistics that show what properties in a given area have sold for in Portugal?

Thanks for any info and have a good day.

Kind regards,

Kate

Hi Kate, yes:

www.idealista.pt

www.pordata.pt

www.imovirtual.pt

 Thank you very much. Do you know if any of these show what the properties would be appraised at (by the bank)?  

Idealista in the lower part should have some information.
Appraisals in Portugal depend a lot on the person doing it. But, normally, if the price per square meter is the market's avarage, the appraisal should come more or less on the asking price.

[John Miles]

Quote from @Justine Le:

Hi Everyone, I am Justine and I am new here and I am very interested in investing in PT for STR. I am an investor from Canada. This thread has been very helpful so far, so thank you to all that have contributed. I have not picked a market just yet as I am still learning. However, the markets I am interested in so far are, Silver coast, Azores, Madiera, Porto and I am open to learning about others in general. My ultimate goal is to acquire a few properties and hopefully work towards a D7 visa. For those who are investing in PT from a distance how have you found the experience. What are the avg cash on cash returns one can expect from the popular markets doing STR? Does anyone here have any experience with per hourly rentals for events using platforms like Peerspace? I am supposed to be meeting with a Portuguese realtor this week to learn more about the different markets I am interested in and get the ball rolling.

Hi Justine, I’m also in Canada and just about in the same spot as you are last year regarding a STR investment in Portugal. Wondering if you got any replies to your post here and if there’s a realtor you’d recommend working with? Thanks!

[Joshua Beneventi]

Quote from @John Miles:

Quote from @Justine Le:

Hi Everyone, I am Justine and I am new here and I am very interested in investing in PT for STR. I am an investor from Canada. This thread has been very helpful so far, so thank you to all that have contributed. I have not picked a market just yet as I am still learning. However, the markets I am interested in so far are, Silver coast, Azores, Madiera, Porto and I am open to learning about others in general. My ultimate goal is to acquire a few properties and hopefully work towards a D7 visa. For those who are investing in PT from a distance how have you found the experience. What are the avg cash on cash returns one can expect from the popular markets doing STR? Does anyone here have any experience with per hourly rentals for events using platforms like Peerspace? I am supposed to be meeting with a Portuguese realtor this week to learn more about the different markets I am interested in and get the ball rolling.

Hi Justine, I’m also in Canada and just about in the same spot as you are last year regarding a STR investment in Portugal. Wondering if you got any replies to your post here and if there’s a realtor you’d recommend working with? Thanks!

 Hi John. We work with these sorts of assets here in Portugal. Please feel free to reach out if you'd like to chat!

[Benjamin Werner]

Slight change of plans from my side. From house hunting, to house building.

If anyone can recommend a contractor in Greater Lisbon area, I'm happy to hear it :-)

[Benjamin Werner]

Hello João,

Thanks for your reply. Your emphasis on efficient housing strikes the right tone for me, as that is what I definitely envision for my house project. Please feel free to share your contact details by PM and I'll get in touch.

Best regards

[João Medinas]

Quote from @Benjamin Werner:

Hello João,

Thanks for your reply. Your emphasis on efficient housing strikes the right tone for me, as that is what I definitely envision for my house project. Please feel free to share your contact details by PM and I'll get in touch.

Best regards

Just sent you Private Message with my contacts.

Regards.

[Chris Barrett]

Bringing this thread back alive, I'm planning on selling a house in the US and potentially investing in either Madeira or Porto Santo. Is there anyone active on the forums that could recommend sources of data for the STR market in those locations, as well as a real estate agent, lawyer, and accountant?

We spent 2 months on Madeira last summer, and 1 week on Porto Santo and loved every minute of it so I'd like to get a few properties on the Island and eventually relocate there. 

Thanks!!

[Riaan Knoetze]

Quote from @Chris Barrett:

Bringing this thread back alive, I'm planning on selling a house in the US and potentially investing in either Madeira or Porto Santo. Is there anyone active on the forums that could recommend sources of data for the STR market in those locations, as well as a real estate agent, lawyer, and accountant?

We spent 2 months on Madeira last summer, and 1 week on Porto Santo and loved every minute of it so I'd like to get a few properties on the Island and eventually relocate there. 

Thanks!!

Hey Chris!

I've never been to Porto Santo but Madeira is incredible - it's what drew us to Portugal originally. There are a bunch of legislation changes afoot for both STR licensing and LTR caps. I definitely recommend taking a look at those first (You can google "Mais Habitação" to get started).

In terms of contacts that are investor friendly:
* Ivo Sousa from Remax (in Madeira)
* Rui Magalhaes from DMA Tax Accountants (in Cascais but with experience in cross-border tax affairs, great work ethic and a solid command of English)

These folks aren't on the forum but can be found easily through Google.

In terms of STR data: AirDNA is a good starting point 🙂

[Chris Barrett]

I've been following Mais Habitacao closely. I don't much care about the golden visa being sunsetted, but obviously the restrictions of AL licensing would be dramatically impactful. 

Thanks for the references! I'll add their contacts to our list so when we're ready to start a purchase we'll reach out to them. 

[Riaan Knoetze]

President is deciding tomorrow (published on Monday) on whether he'll veto the Mais Habitação bill - https://observador.pt/2023/08/18/marcelo-decisao-sobre-mais-...

Also worth keeping an eye on this group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/762040045672380. Plenty of information there STRs, LTRs etc (especially at the tactical level linked to government reporting, licensing, taxes. --> It's not my group though, just found it useful)

[Alistair Toffoli]

Looks like the Mais Habitação bill did not go through: https://www.publico.pt/2023/08/21/politica/noticia/marcelo-d...

[Chris Barrett]

Correct me if I am wrong, but a simple majority of PS votes could override the veto? If that's the case, this will still become law. 

[Alistair Toffoli]

From my understanding, the moment the PS sends it back to the president, he is obliged to approve it 

[Rui Dias Costa]

Hi,

I will start by disclosing that I don't have experience in STR and I lack significant legal knowledge.

That said, from what I have been told, the law is being written to focus on "Alojamento Local" and leaving the other types of STR has they exist today.

I do recommend (after the law is approved and it will most likely will) a talk with a good lawyer to understand exactly what changed and how to frame the business appropriately.

Best regards.

[Mike Lambert]

@Alistair Toffoli

@Chris Barrett

The president indeed vetoed the Mais Habitação but this is pure political maneuvering. The PS will send it back to him unchanged and he'll have no choice but signing it this time. All this is doing is delaying the process by a month and it'll become law.