Do You Know Fair Housing and ADA as Well as You Think You Do?

39 Replies

Originally posted by @Thomas Robb:

The addition of a stair lift is not a reasonable adaptation to the home. Just saying your test is wrong on at least 1 question. 

 If it doesn't impair ability of others to use the property, it certainly is reasonable. Again, at the tenant's expense.

https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_7502.PDF

Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak :
Originally posted by @Thomas Robb:

The addition of a stair lift is not a reasonable adaptation to the home. Just saying your test is wrong on at least 1 question. 

 If it doesn't impair ability of others to use the property, it certainly is reasonable. Again, at the tenant's expense.

https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_7502.PDF

 No its not it is a major adaptation that will leave dozens of holes in the walls when removed. I wouldn't allow tenants to hang their tv's on the walls this is 1000 times worse.

Originally posted by @Thomas Robb:
Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak:
Originally posted by @Thomas Robb:

The addition of a stair lift is not a reasonable adaptation to the home. Just saying your test is wrong on at least 1 question. 

 If it doesn't impair ability of others to use the property, it certainly is reasonable. Again, at the tenant's expense.

https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_7502.PDF

 No its not it is a major adaptation that will leave dozens of holes in the walls when removed. I wouldn't allow tenants to hang their tv's on the walls this is 1000 times worse.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose...To any others, give the link I provided in my previous post from HUD a read before going along with this expensive approach.

Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak :
Originally posted by @Thomas Robb:
Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak:
Originally posted by @Thomas Robb:

The addition of a stair lift is not a reasonable adaptation to the home. Just saying your test is wrong on at least 1 question. 

 If it doesn't impair ability of others to use the property, it certainly is reasonable. Again, at the tenant's expense.

https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_7502.PDF

 No its not it is a major adaptation that will leave dozens of holes in the walls when removed. I wouldn't allow tenants to hang their tv's on the walls this is 1000 times worse.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose...To any others, give the link I provided in my previous post from HUD a read before going along with this expensive approach.

  When did reasonable modifications become major construction? I've worked with the disables for more than 10 years reasonable modification has always been modification that can easily be reversed without causing permanent damage.

@Thomas Robb, the tenant would be responsible for cost of installation and returning the unit to former condition, minus reasonable wear and tear, unless it is not necessary -- for example, like if they widen a doorway to fit a wheelchair through, they don't have to return the opening to smaller size later. The one tenant who installed a chair lift in a townhouse we own had a local charity let us know they'd be responsible for installation and removal. When her lease ended, after many years, the lift was removed and the walls and rail returned to normal. We did have an issue with the HOA, however, as the board members at the time were not familiar with ADA and tried to block the wheel chair ramp in the front yard and an awning in the back on separate occasions. We met the tenant at the HOA meetings with the doctor's note requiring it, explained they were opening themselves and us up to violations and lawsuits, and they approved it shortly afterwards.

Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak :
Originally posted by @Jim Adrian:

@Hilary Catton or @Matthew Olszak

Since these questions are over laws, is it possible to list the law reference number within the answer or on here? 

Most answers are based on a mix of the law as its written, case law, gov't direction/memos or whatever they are called, and experience. Is there a particular answer you disagree with or want to know more about?

Thanks for your response.  Do I disagree with an answer...  probably not as its more of just not knowing due to being "mom and pops" type landlord but wanting to do it right.   ADA for example, I deal with this everyday for "accessible (handicap) design" where there is a "Standards Manual" (like 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design) that you are able to reference from. I guess I assumed there as a similar "Standards Manual" as well over case law.  I would think you be able to reference case law as well but may be not.   I find it important to know where to find the answers as well as the answer.  Thanks for the work you have put into this quiz! 

https://www.ada.gov/pubs/adastatute08.htm

https://www.access-board.gov/

https://www.ada.gov/

Originally posted by @Jim Adrian :
Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak:
Originally posted by @Jim Adrian:

@Hilary Catton or @Matthew Olszak

Since these questions are over laws, is it possible to list the law reference number within the answer or on here? 

Most answers are based on a mix of the law as its written, case law, gov't direction/memos or whatever they are called, and experience. Is there a particular answer you disagree with or want to know more about?

Thanks for your response.  Do I disagree with an answer...  probably not as its more of just not knowing due to being "mom and pops" type landlord but wanting to do it right.   ADA for example, I deal with this everyday for "accessible (handicap) design" where there is a "Standards Manual" (like 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design) that you are able to reference from. I guess I assumed there as a similar "Standards Manual" as well over case law.  I would think you be able to reference case law as well but may be not.   I find it important to know where to find the answers as well as the answer.  Thanks for the work you have put into this quiz! 

https://www.ada.gov/pubs/adastatute08.htm

https://www.access-board.gov/

https://www.ada.gov/

Here is the "bread 'n butter" basis of my answers: https://www.justice.gov/crt/fair-housing-act-2

People stretch their interpretation of the laws, so that's where the gov't memorandums and case law come in. For those specific what-ifs, I just do a google search of the item and "site:hud.gov". MOST issues have already been tested by the administration and courts, so you'll usually find something similar in that search. Kind of like if the width of an accessible parking space as specified by the ADA includes the painted line or is just the space inside those lines. I'm not sure of that answer, but I'd bet its already been discussed by the gov't. 

I asked if there was a specific disagreement only because its tough (and time consuming) to say for each question, well its xx.xxx section of the law; because then someone will say no because of xyz, then there is another part of the law that overrides what they say, then there is case law to back up a misinterpretation of that other part of the law, and on and on. It gets deep with FHA, just like in ADA, with these somewhat ambiguous laws where the court is deciding each year what the spirit and intention of the legislature was as it pertains to a specific case.

And thanks for posting those ADA references.

Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak :
Originally posted by @Jim Adrian:
Originally posted by @Matthew Olszak:
Originally posted by @Jim Adrian:

@Hilary Catton or @Matthew Olszak

Since these questions are over laws, is it possible to list the law reference number within the answer or on here? 

Most answers are based on a mix of the law as its written, case law, gov't direction/memos or whatever they are called, and experience. Is there a particular answer you disagree with or want to know more about?

Thanks for your response.  Do I disagree with an answer...  probably not as its more of just not knowing due to being "mom and pops" type landlord but wanting to do it right.   ADA for example, I deal with this everyday for "accessible (handicap) design" where there is a "Standards Manual" (like 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design) that you are able to reference from. I guess I assumed there as a similar "Standards Manual" as well over case law.  I would think you be able to reference case law as well but may be not.   I find it important to know where to find the answers as well as the answer.  Thanks for the work you have put into this quiz! 

https://www.ada.gov/pubs/adastatute08.htm

https://www.access-board.gov/

https://www.ada.gov/

Here is the "bread 'n butter" basis of my answers: https://www.justice.gov/crt/fair-housing-act-2

People stretch their interpretation of the laws, so that's where the gov't memorandums and case law come in. For those specific what-ifs, I just do a google search of the item and "site:hud.gov". MOST issues have already been tested by the administration and courts, so you'll usually find something similar in that search. Kind of like if the width of an accessible parking space as specified by the ADA includes the painted line or is just the space inside those lines. I'm not sure of that answer, but I'd bet its already been discussed by the gov't. 

I asked if there was a specific disagreement only because its tough (and time consuming) to say for each question, well its xx.xxx section of the law; because then someone will say no because of xyz, then there is another part of the law that overrides what they say, then there is case law to back up a misinterpretation of that other part of the law, and on and on. It gets deep with FHA, just like in ADA, with these somewhat ambiguous laws where the court is deciding each year what the spirit and intention of the legislature was as it pertains to a specific case.

And thanks for posting those ADA references.

Thanks for the follow up! 

To answer your parking stall question in your example: 2010 ADA section 502 states centerline of stall lines.   Car spaces are 96" wide (min) and van spaces are 132" wide (min) with side access aisle of 60" wide.   =)   I didn't know the answer until I looked it up! 

Free eBook from BiggerPockets!

Ultimate Beginner's Guide Book Cover

Join BiggerPockets and get The Ultimate Beginner's Guide to Real Estate Investing for FREE - read by more than 100,000 people - AND get exclusive real estate investing tips, tricks and techniques delivered straight to your inbox twice weekly!

  • Actionable advice for getting started,
  • Discover the 10 Most Lucrative Real Estate Niches,
  • Learn how to get started with or without money,
  • Explore Real-Life Strategies for Building Wealth,
  • And a LOT more.

We hate spam just as much as you

Create Lasting Wealth Through Real Estate

Join the millions of people achieving financial freedom through the power of real estate investing

Start here