Looking to BRRR in Toledo Ohio

[Abe Rouz]

Hi all, 

I’m currently looking into the market of Toledo Ohio and want to get in touch with over investors, real estate agents, contractors, property managers in the area as I’m looking to invest in multi family for purpose of buy and hold. 

Thank you 

[Andrew Postell]

@Abe Rouz Visit your local REI groups. There are many groups that meet across the country. Some post here on the Bigger Pockets Marketplace. Many post on meetup.com. Even facebook will have some. Networking is always a great practice and you never know who you might meet there and what good information they have to share. Would certainly recommend visiting if one is close to you.

[Xavier Knight]

Do you currently own any properties in Toledo now or would this be your first BRRRR deal?

[Abe Rouz]

Quote from @Xavier Knight:

Do you currently own any properties in Toledo now or would this be your first BRRRR deal?

 I do not, im an out of state investor looking to connect with people such as realtors, property managers, inspectors, and contractors to purchase 1-3 properties to buy and hold and rent. Thank you! 

[Abe Rouz]

Quote from @Andrew Postell:

@Abe Rouz Visit your local REI groups. There are many groups that meet across the country. Some post here on the Bigger Pockets Marketplace. Many post on meetup.com. Even facebook will have some. Networking is always a great practice and you never know who you might meet there and what good information they have to share. Would certainly recommend visiting if one is close to you.

 Appreciate it, im not in the Toledo area if thats what you meant, im doing that locally at the moment, and most are currently in this market, however would love to connect with others who have a team such as inspection, contractors and realtors

[Christopher Abele]

Good luck.

I’m in the Toledo market. I can tell you:

1.) Like everywhere else, there is a shortage of contractors in Toledo. Finding a good one is extremely difficult.

2.) Realtors are going to offer you properties on the MLS. At least in the pockets that I buy there hasn't been a solid Brrrr opportunity in over a year posted there.

3.) Toledo is neighborhood specific. Within the same zip code you can have million dollar houses and homes where you need a vest when collecting rent.

4.) Quality of work is important and photos do not show quality of work or shortcuts.That assumes that your contractor gets to the point of a finished product without abandoning the job.

If you want to invest in Toledo my recommendation is to spend a week out here. Plan your visit around one of our REIA meetings and attend so that you can network. Alternatively you could start with finding a PM, as they cater to OOS investors more.

Here are 4 PMs, but do your own diligence. This is just a starting point for research and not a personal recommendation.

LaPlante

Serenity

LPG

Buckeye Realty

[Jackelyn Lee]

Quote from @Christopher Abele:

Good luck.

I’m in the Toledo market. I can tell you:

1.) Like everywhere else, there is a shortage of contractors in Toledo. Finding a good one is extremely difficult.

2.) Realtors are going to offer you properties on the MLS. At least in the pockets that I buy there hasn't been a solid Brrrr opportunity in over a year posted there.

3.) Toledo is neighborhood specific. Within the same zip code you can have million dollar houses and homes where you need a vest when collecting rent.

4.) Quality of work is important and photos do not show quality of work or shortcuts.That assumes that your contractor gets to the point of a finished product without abandoning the job.

If you want to invest in Toledo my recommendation is to spend a week out here. Plan your visit around one of our REIA meetings and attend so that you can network. Alternatively you could start with finding a PM, as they cater to OOS investors more.

Here are 4 PMs, but do your own diligence. This is just a starting point for research and not a personal recommendation.

LaPlante

Serenity

LPG

Buckeye Realty

Interesting. I have personally completed 4 BRRRRS this year and completed about 10 for clients. 

[Michael P.]

Quote from @Abe Rouz:

Hi all, 

I’m currently looking into the market of Toledo Ohio and want to get in touch with over investors, real estate agents, contractors, property managers in the area as I’m looking to invest in multi family for purpose of buy and hold. 

Thank you 

 I’ve been doing brrrr in Toledo for 3-4 years and live on the east coast. Message me if you want my recommendations.

[Dave Poeppelmeier]

If you're looking to simply Buy and Hold, depending on what class of property you're looking at, yes you can find deals right now. If you're looking to BRRRR from out of town, it's difficult but not impossible. You might not be able to get 100% of your money out of properties, but you can get a good chunk. You really do need to bring cash for that right now, otherwise the lender closing costs for the purchase and refinance after is going really hurt your return.

If you do it "on your own" - looking for general contractors or trying to manage your trade-specific contractors (roofing, plumbing, electric, etc), you can get more bang for your buck. A big HOWEVER is that you need to know what you're doing with rehabs so you can keep tabs on the GC/contractors. The second that they know you're out of town or if they sense that you don't know what you're doing (or both), they're going to take you for a ride. It stinks, but that's the way it is. 

If you're still new, then you do need to rely on a Property Manager. With PMs, they manage the project for you, but you're going to pay for that service. But, if you're willing to put the capital in up front, you can find houses that are sitting there right now that need a full cosmetic reno for a lot less than you could last year. You drop $20-30k into it, refinance,  and now you have a solid long term property to hold onto that you know is set for a while. It just depends on how much "work" you want to put in as an investor. 

[Sam Bhattacharya]

Quote from @Jackelyn Lee:

Quote from @Christopher Abele:

Good luck.

I’m in the Toledo market. I can tell you:

1.) Like everywhere else, there is a shortage of contractors in Toledo. Finding a good one is extremely difficult.

2.) Realtors are going to offer you properties on the MLS. At least in the pockets that I buy there hasn't been a solid Brrrr opportunity in over a year posted there.

3.) Toledo is neighborhood specific. Within the same zip code you can have million dollar houses and homes where you need a vest when collecting rent.

4.) Quality of work is important and photos do not show quality of work or shortcuts.That assumes that your contractor gets to the point of a finished product without abandoning the job.

If you want to invest in Toledo my recommendation is to spend a week out here. Plan your visit around one of our REIA meetings and attend so that you can network. Alternatively you could start with finding a PM, as they cater to OOS investors more.

Here are 4 PMs, but do your own diligence. This is just a starting point for research and not a personal recommendation.

LaPlante

Serenity

LPG

Buckeye Realty

Interesting. I have personally completed 4 BRRRRS this year and completed about 10 for clients. 

Hi Jackelyn, I am an investor from Damascus, Maryland.  How feasible is it to use the Brrrr method from out of state?  Do your clients typically get back the entire cost of buying and rehabbing when they refinance?

[Dwayne Estiverne]

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Abe Rouz:

Hi all, 

I’m currently looking into the market of Toledo Ohio and want to get in touch with over investors, real estate agents, contractors, property managers in the area as I’m looking to invest in multi family for purpose of buy and hold. 

Thank you 

 I’ve been doing brrrr in Toledo for 3-4 years and live on the east coast. Message me if you want my recommendations.

Can you send me some recommendations please?

[Luka Jozic]

Quote from @Dave Poeppelmeier:

If you're looking to simply Buy and Hold, depending on what class of property you're looking at, yes you can find deals right now. If you're looking to BRRRR from out of town, it's difficult but not impossible. You might not be able to get 100% of your money out of properties, but you can get a good chunk. You really do need to bring cash for that right now, otherwise the lender closing costs for the purchase and refinance after is going really hurt your return.

If you do it "on your own" - looking for general contractors or trying to manage your trade-specific contractors (roofing, plumbing, electric, etc), you can get more bang for your buck. A big HOWEVER is that you need to know what you're doing with rehabs so you can keep tabs on the GC/contractors. The second that they know you're out of town or if they sense that you don't know what you're doing (or both), they're going to take you for a ride. It stinks, but that's the way it is. 

If you're still new, then you do need to rely on a Property Manager. With PMs, they manage the project for you, but you're going to pay for that service. But, if you're willing to put the capital in up front, you can find houses that are sitting there right now that need a full cosmetic reno for a lot less than you could last year. You drop $20-30k into it, refinance,  and now you have a solid long term property to hold onto that you know is set for a while. It just depends on how much "work" you want to put in as an investor. 

Very helpful post. What would a BRRRR in Toledo potentially look like number wise? Like example purchase price, rehab cost, ARV, and rent? Is it easier to make it work for SFH or MFH?

[Michael P.]

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Dave Poeppelmeier:

If you're looking to simply Buy and Hold, depending on what class of property you're looking at, yes you can find deals right now. If you're looking to BRRRR from out of town, it's difficult but not impossible. You might not be able to get 100% of your money out of properties, but you can get a good chunk. You really do need to bring cash for that right now, otherwise the lender closing costs for the purchase and refinance after is going really hurt your return.

If you do it "on your own" - looking for general contractors or trying to manage your trade-specific contractors (roofing, plumbing, electric, etc), you can get more bang for your buck. A big HOWEVER is that you need to know what you're doing with rehabs so you can keep tabs on the GC/contractors. The second that they know you're out of town or if they sense that you don't know what you're doing (or both), they're going to take you for a ride. It stinks, but that's the way it is. 

If you're still new, then you do need to rely on a Property Manager. With PMs, they manage the project for you, but you're going to pay for that service. But, if you're willing to put the capital in up front, you can find houses that are sitting there right now that need a full cosmetic reno for a lot less than you could last year. You drop $20-30k into it, refinance,  and now you have a solid long term property to hold onto that you know is set for a while. It just depends on how much "work" you want to put in as an investor. 

Very helpful post. What would a BRRRR in Toledo potentially look like number wise? Like example purchase price, rehab cost, ARV, and rent? Is it easier to make it work for SFH or MFH?

SFH brrrr I'm working on now is approximately:

75k purchase

35k reno

150k appraisal

1600 rent

[Luka Jozic]

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Dave Poeppelmeier:

If you're looking to simply Buy and Hold, depending on what class of property you're looking at, yes you can find deals right now. If you're looking to BRRRR from out of town, it's difficult but not impossible. You might not be able to get 100% of your money out of properties, but you can get a good chunk. You really do need to bring cash for that right now, otherwise the lender closing costs for the purchase and refinance after is going really hurt your return.

If you do it "on your own" - looking for general contractors or trying to manage your trade-specific contractors (roofing, plumbing, electric, etc), you can get more bang for your buck. A big HOWEVER is that you need to know what you're doing with rehabs so you can keep tabs on the GC/contractors. The second that they know you're out of town or if they sense that you don't know what you're doing (or both), they're going to take you for a ride. It stinks, but that's the way it is. 

If you're still new, then you do need to rely on a Property Manager. With PMs, they manage the project for you, but you're going to pay for that service. But, if you're willing to put the capital in up front, you can find houses that are sitting there right now that need a full cosmetic reno for a lot less than you could last year. You drop $20-30k into it, refinance,  and now you have a solid long term property to hold onto that you know is set for a while. It just depends on how much "work" you want to put in as an investor. 

Very helpful post. What would a BRRRR in Toledo potentially look like number wise? Like example purchase price, rehab cost, ARV, and rent? Is it easier to make it work for SFH or MFH?

SFH brrrr I'm working on now is approximately:

75k purchase

35k reno

150k appraisal

1600 rent

Thanks for responding. But how do those numbers make sense for a BRRRR? If your appraisal is 150K and you leave 30% equity in the deal, your monthly payment should be just over $1000 a month. If rent is $1600, then 10% for PM, some percentage for cap-ex, vacancy and repairs (since its newly rehabbed maybe 15% for all that), that gives you barely $200 cash flow? Am I missing something here?

[Michael P.]

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Dave Poeppelmeier:

If you're looking to simply Buy and Hold, depending on what class of property you're looking at, yes you can find deals right now. If you're looking to BRRRR from out of town, it's difficult but not impossible. You might not be able to get 100% of your money out of properties, but you can get a good chunk. You really do need to bring cash for that right now, otherwise the lender closing costs for the purchase and refinance after is going really hurt your return.

If you do it "on your own" - looking for general contractors or trying to manage your trade-specific contractors (roofing, plumbing, electric, etc), you can get more bang for your buck. A big HOWEVER is that you need to know what you're doing with rehabs so you can keep tabs on the GC/contractors. The second that they know you're out of town or if they sense that you don't know what you're doing (or both), they're going to take you for a ride. It stinks, but that's the way it is. 

If you're still new, then you do need to rely on a Property Manager. With PMs, they manage the project for you, but you're going to pay for that service. But, if you're willing to put the capital in up front, you can find houses that are sitting there right now that need a full cosmetic reno for a lot less than you could last year. You drop $20-30k into it, refinance,  and now you have a solid long term property to hold onto that you know is set for a while. It just depends on how much "work" you want to put in as an investor. 

Very helpful post. What would a BRRRR in Toledo potentially look like number wise? Like example purchase price, rehab cost, ARV, and rent? Is it easier to make it work for SFH or MFH?

SFH brrrr I'm working on now is approximately:

75k purchase

35k reno

150k appraisal

1600 rent

Thanks for responding. But how do those numbers make sense for a BRRRR? If your appraisal is 150K and you leave 30% equity in the deal, your monthly payment should be just over $1000 a month. If rent is $1600, then 10% for PM, some percentage for cap-ex, vacancy and repairs (since its newly rehabbed maybe 15% for all that), that gives you barely $200 cash flow? Am I missing something here?

Not sure what you mean. ARV 150k i pull out 75% or 112.5k. That covers my entire purchase and rehab, so I have a cash flowing rental for "free", no money out of my pocket, isn't that how brrrr works? Then I can repeat the whole process.

[Michael P.]

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Dave Poeppelmeier:

If you're looking to simply Buy and Hold, depending on what class of property you're looking at, yes you can find deals right now. If you're looking to BRRRR from out of town, it's difficult but not impossible. You might not be able to get 100% of your money out of properties, but you can get a good chunk. You really do need to bring cash for that right now, otherwise the lender closing costs for the purchase and refinance after is going really hurt your return.

If you do it "on your own" - looking for general contractors or trying to manage your trade-specific contractors (roofing, plumbing, electric, etc), you can get more bang for your buck. A big HOWEVER is that you need to know what you're doing with rehabs so you can keep tabs on the GC/contractors. The second that they know you're out of town or if they sense that you don't know what you're doing (or both), they're going to take you for a ride. It stinks, but that's the way it is. 

If you're still new, then you do need to rely on a Property Manager. With PMs, they manage the project for you, but you're going to pay for that service. But, if you're willing to put the capital in up front, you can find houses that are sitting there right now that need a full cosmetic reno for a lot less than you could last year. You drop $20-30k into it, refinance,  and now you have a solid long term property to hold onto that you know is set for a while. It just depends on how much "work" you want to put in as an investor. 

Very helpful post. What would a BRRRR in Toledo potentially look like number wise? Like example purchase price, rehab cost, ARV, and rent? Is it easier to make it work for SFH or MFH?

SFH brrrr I'm working on now is approximately:

75k purchase

35k reno

150k appraisal

1600 rent

Thanks for responding. But how do those numbers make sense for a BRRRR? If your appraisal is 150K and you leave 30% equity in the deal, your monthly payment should be just over $1000 a month. If rent is $1600, then 10% for PM, some percentage for cap-ex, vacancy and repairs (since its newly rehabbed maybe 15% for all that), that gives you barely $200 cash flow? Am I missing something here?

Not sure what you mean. ARV 150k i pull out 75% or 112.5k. That covers my entire purchase and rehab, so I have a cash flowing rental for "free", no money out of my pocket, isn't that how brrrr works? Then I can repeat the whole process.

I’m getting 11 cap I thought that was pretty good, but I’m open to suggestions

[Luka Jozic]

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Dave Poeppelmeier:

If you're looking to simply Buy and Hold, depending on what class of property you're looking at, yes you can find deals right now. If you're looking to BRRRR from out of town, it's difficult but not impossible. You might not be able to get 100% of your money out of properties, but you can get a good chunk. You really do need to bring cash for that right now, otherwise the lender closing costs for the purchase and refinance after is going really hurt your return.

If you do it "on your own" - looking for general contractors or trying to manage your trade-specific contractors (roofing, plumbing, electric, etc), you can get more bang for your buck. A big HOWEVER is that you need to know what you're doing with rehabs so you can keep tabs on the GC/contractors. The second that they know you're out of town or if they sense that you don't know what you're doing (or both), they're going to take you for a ride. It stinks, but that's the way it is. 

If you're still new, then you do need to rely on a Property Manager. With PMs, they manage the project for you, but you're going to pay for that service. But, if you're willing to put the capital in up front, you can find houses that are sitting there right now that need a full cosmetic reno for a lot less than you could last year. You drop $20-30k into it, refinance,  and now you have a solid long term property to hold onto that you know is set for a while. It just depends on how much "work" you want to put in as an investor. 

Very helpful post. What would a BRRRR in Toledo potentially look like number wise? Like example purchase price, rehab cost, ARV, and rent? Is it easier to make it work for SFH or MFH?

SFH brrrr I'm working on now is approximately:

75k purchase

35k reno

150k appraisal

1600 rent

Thanks for responding. But how do those numbers make sense for a BRRRR? If your appraisal is 150K and you leave 30% equity in the deal, your monthly payment should be just over $1000 a month. If rent is $1600, then 10% for PM, some percentage for cap-ex, vacancy and repairs (since its newly rehabbed maybe 15% for all that), that gives you barely $200 cash flow? Am I missing something here?

Not sure what you mean. ARV 150k i pull out 75% or 112.5k. That covers my entire purchase and rehab, so I have a cash flowing rental for "free", no money out of my pocket, isn't that how brrrr works? Then I can repeat the whole process.

I’m getting 11 cap I thought that was pretty good, but I’m open to suggestions

Hmm ok but I mean if you get an appraisal at 150K and you cash out refinance 70%, your mortgage and principal will be roughly $750 a month, your expenses are $600, that leaves you $250 a month in cash flow. Is it really worth all that work for $250 a month? This is where I struggle because for most deals I see, if I wanna pull all my money out, then the cash flow will suck, so it feels like I almost need to leave some money in the deal to get decent cash flow, which I would be ok with. 

[Michael P.]

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Dave Poeppelmeier:

If you're looking to simply Buy and Hold, depending on what class of property you're looking at, yes you can find deals right now. If you're looking to BRRRR from out of town, it's difficult but not impossible. You might not be able to get 100% of your money out of properties, but you can get a good chunk. You really do need to bring cash for that right now, otherwise the lender closing costs for the purchase and refinance after is going really hurt your return.

If you do it "on your own" - looking for general contractors or trying to manage your trade-specific contractors (roofing, plumbing, electric, etc), you can get more bang for your buck. A big HOWEVER is that you need to know what you're doing with rehabs so you can keep tabs on the GC/contractors. The second that they know you're out of town or if they sense that you don't know what you're doing (or both), they're going to take you for a ride. It stinks, but that's the way it is. 

If you're still new, then you do need to rely on a Property Manager. With PMs, they manage the project for you, but you're going to pay for that service. But, if you're willing to put the capital in up front, you can find houses that are sitting there right now that need a full cosmetic reno for a lot less than you could last year. You drop $20-30k into it, refinance,  and now you have a solid long term property to hold onto that you know is set for a while. It just depends on how much "work" you want to put in as an investor. 

Very helpful post. What would a BRRRR in Toledo potentially look like number wise? Like example purchase price, rehab cost, ARV, and rent? Is it easier to make it work for SFH or MFH?

SFH brrrr I'm working on now is approximately:

75k purchase

35k reno

150k appraisal

1600 rent

Thanks for responding. But how do those numbers make sense for a BRRRR? If your appraisal is 150K and you leave 30% equity in the deal, your monthly payment should be just over $1000 a month. If rent is $1600, then 10% for PM, some percentage for cap-ex, vacancy and repairs (since its newly rehabbed maybe 15% for all that), that gives you barely $200 cash flow? Am I missing something here?

Not sure what you mean. ARV 150k i pull out 75% or 112.5k. That covers my entire purchase and rehab, so I have a cash flowing rental for "free", no money out of my pocket, isn't that how brrrr works? Then I can repeat the whole process.

I’m getting 11 cap I thought that was pretty good, but I’m open to suggestions

Hmm ok but I mean if you get an appraisal at 150K and you cash out refinance 70%, your mortgage and principal will be roughly $750 a month, your expenses are $600, that leaves you $250 a month in cash flow. Is it really worth all that work for $250 a month? This is where I struggle because for most deals I see, if I wanna pull all my money out, then the cash flow will suck, so it feels like I almost need to leave some money in the deal to get decent cash flow, which I would be ok with. 

 Well it’s a long game, not all based on year 1 pro forma. Part of that payment is principle pay down and each month the principle portion gets larger. Over the years rent will rise. Also if rates (ever) get lower again you can refinance to increase cashflow. Not to mention appreciation over the years. I enjoy it so don’t really feel like work to me, I literally do all of it from my cell phone.

[Luka Jozic]

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Michael P.:

Quote from @Luka Jozic:

Quote from @Dave Poeppelmeier:

If you're looking to simply Buy and Hold, depending on what class of property you're looking at, yes you can find deals right now. If you're looking to BRRRR from out of town, it's difficult but not impossible. You might not be able to get 100% of your money out of properties, but you can get a good chunk. You really do need to bring cash for that right now, otherwise the lender closing costs for the purchase and refinance after is going really hurt your return.

If you do it "on your own" - looking for general contractors or trying to manage your trade-specific contractors (roofing, plumbing, electric, etc), you can get more bang for your buck. A big HOWEVER is that you need to know what you're doing with rehabs so you can keep tabs on the GC/contractors. The second that they know you're out of town or if they sense that you don't know what you're doing (or both), they're going to take you for a ride. It stinks, but that's the way it is. 

If you're still new, then you do need to rely on a Property Manager. With PMs, they manage the project for you, but you're going to pay for that service. But, if you're willing to put the capital in up front, you can find houses that are sitting there right now that need a full cosmetic reno for a lot less than you could last year. You drop $20-30k into it, refinance,  and now you have a solid long term property to hold onto that you know is set for a while. It just depends on how much "work" you want to put in as an investor. 

Very helpful post. What would a BRRRR in Toledo potentially look like number wise? Like example purchase price, rehab cost, ARV, and rent? Is it easier to make it work for SFH or MFH?

SFH brrrr I'm working on now is approximately:

75k purchase

35k reno

150k appraisal

1600 rent

Thanks for responding. But how do those numbers make sense for a BRRRR? If your appraisal is 150K and you leave 30% equity in the deal, your monthly payment should be just over $1000 a month. If rent is $1600, then 10% for PM, some percentage for cap-ex, vacancy and repairs (since its newly rehabbed maybe 15% for all that), that gives you barely $200 cash flow? Am I missing something here?

Not sure what you mean. ARV 150k i pull out 75% or 112.5k. That covers my entire purchase and rehab, so I have a cash flowing rental for "free", no money out of my pocket, isn't that how brrrr works? Then I can repeat the whole process.

I’m getting 11 cap I thought that was pretty good, but I’m open to suggestions

Hmm ok but I mean if you get an appraisal at 150K and you cash out refinance 70%, your mortgage and principal will be roughly $750 a month, your expenses are $600, that leaves you $250 a month in cash flow. Is it really worth all that work for $250 a month? This is where I struggle because for most deals I see, if I wanna pull all my money out, then the cash flow will suck, so it feels like I almost need to leave some money in the deal to get decent cash flow, which I would be ok with. 

 Well it’s a long game, not all based on year 1 pro forma. Part of that payment is principle pay down and each month the principle portion gets larger. Over the years rent will rise. Also if rates (ever) get lower again you can refinance to increase cashflow. Not to mention appreciation over the years. I enjoy it so don’t really feel like work to me, I literally do all of it from my cell phone.

Far enough that is very true. May I ask how big the property is and how many beds and path? Also which zip its in? 1600 sounds awfully high for Toledo. 

[Eric Puffenberger]

@Abe Rouz Did you end up getting set up in the Toledo market? If so, how is it going?