How to get started with direct mail

35 Replies

Looking for suggestions for an affordable and effective direct mail service for a newbie investor? All suggestions welcome. I have 4 list that needs attention. Also does anyone have a great cold calling script or link to a script or video or something on cold call training?

What is your goal with direct mail? Do you have a monthly budget? There are resources like Data Tree that have great targeting features and allow you to mail yourself, or you can get more inclusive products like Vistaprint. Then, depending on your region you could try something like Valassis or Mailbox Merchant for greater market saturation but less personalization. Per piece, landed, you should expect between $.50 and $.22 for a postcard.

Most people quit on direct mail too quickly, but it can be expensive before you see the return on investment. Expect to pay at least $500 a month if you want to see results. These are just generalities, but I hope it provides some context. Best of luck!

Hey @Brenden Kanakaole check out Open Letter Marketing. Our pricing is very competitive. I help tons of BiggerPockets members set up successful direct mail campaigns! No obligation, and I can walk you through our products and services if you are interested. just shoot me a call or dm if you want any more info about this.

Let me ask you this. Why do you want to start with DMM? Did you do actual research and measured several strategies against each other and scientifically decide which one is better backed by data, or... are you doing it because 97% of the investors (that failed) are doing it? Right!!

This is a really bad idea. And before many people will say I am wrong, I will leave you with this sentence.

Not because 30 morons agree on something does it mean that something is a good idea!

Scrap DMM, and if you don't.. chances are in 4 months you will try to look me up and say "damn it man, I wish I listened to you before spending all that time and money just to be yelled at".

What do you do?

Get a website, build it up, make it credible and learn SEO, PPC and Facebook ads.

I am not saying you can't make a deal doing DMM... it is just a very very bad idea!

You are welcome!

I think Jerryll is off on saying direct mail is "a very very bad idea". However I think a lot of investors fail because they just mail anything. You need the right targeted lists with a good message and you'll do great. I'm all about quality over quantity.

Hey Jerreyll thanks for the feed back my thoughts exactly! The internet is so powerful why don’t I learn how to use it. Thanks bro I better jump in now while the ocean is still blue.

Originally posted by @John Battle :

I think Jerryll is off on saying direct mail is "a very very bad idea". However I think a lot of investors fail because they just mail anything. You need the right targeted lists with a good message and you'll do great. I'm all about quality over quantity.

Nope, wrong.

I am not off. My messsages are always backed up by data facts, not "i think" opinions

We all know that opinions mean nothing.

Show me how you get this:

with DMM.

All free, all motivated, no hassle, on autopilot, ever green, on demand.

Show me how DMM is in ANY way comparable to this.

It is funny you said you prefer quality over quantity when DMM is ALL ABOUT Quantity. The more mailers you send, the more chances (luck) you will have to score a deal. (Shotgun approach).

Nahh man. You may think I am off.. but I am actually not!

@Jerryll Noorden DMM has made me a couple hundred thousand dollars. The return on a good list is insane. I'm not saying you don't have something going on. I'd even happily take a look at what you're doing. However to discount direct mail completely is wrong. 

Originally posted by @John Battle :

@Jerryll Noorden DMM has made me a couple hundred thousand dollars. The return on a good list is insane. I'm not saying you don't have something going on. I'd even happily take a look at what you're doing. However to discount direct mail completely is wrong. 

 Hey man.

And this is what my point actually was. I never said that you can't make a deal wholesaling.

But does wholesaling work?

No!

See it this way.  I will quit my job and buy lotto  to win the money prize. Does it work? Absolutely not.

Can you make money buying lotto? Absolutely. Again does it work?

No!

If my car starts 3 times after every 100 times I turn the key. Does my car work? No. Does it start? Yes.

Now, while you make a few grand doing DMM we make millions doing SEO!

Again, the idea here is not to compare DMM vs... nothing at all.

The point here is to compare DMM with OTHER strategies and THEN conclude weather it works or not. Against those measures, I stand by my points.. no it doesn't work and I will absolutely discount DMM.

We buy houses for less than 10% ARV from my SEO efforts... quite often! I really doubt that DMM gives you those kind of deals regularly.

Yes I am viscously against DMM, but I have a valid reason. I have been to both realms. I have done DMM (Successfully) and I have done SEO again, successfully. DMM is a joke! Period! The problem is, people that have only done DMM see my rants and think I am just nuts. Only a select few that have tasted SEO success can attest I am 100% absolutely indisputably correct!

Is there room for DMM.. sure absolutely.. but it is not like most of you do it!

@Jerryll Noorden did you ever just think you were bad at DMM? Maybe this is a case of confirmation bias and you're just more skilled at SEO than DMM. I used the work for Homevestors they're the number one home buyer in America. I confident that their number one source of leads is from direct mail. However they're not stupid enough to discount all other factors of marketing. Tried and true mediums of communication (ie mailers) may seem antiquated yet their wide use demonstrates their efficacy. Good BI and quality data create motivated sellers, not conversion funnels. Clean, fresh data will lead to success, guaranteed.  

That sounds like a bit of a stretch @Jerryll Noorden  

If you're consistently getting properties at 10% ARV, why are you wasting time on BP, you should be a billionaire by now.

No need to hear your tireless, exaggerated chants against DMM, its counterproductive to the space. 

Originally posted by @Jake Soper :

That sounds like a bit of a stretch @Jerryll Noorden 

If you're consistently getting properties at 10% ARV, why are you wasting time on BP, you should be a billionaire by now.

No need to hear your tireless, exaggerated chants against DMM, its counterproductive to the space. 


Wooow.. easy Seabuiscit. Your insecurity is showing!!
Billionaire IS a stretch.. lets stick to Millionaire OK?

Exaggerated claims huh.

You don't know me very well do you. I do not exaggerate. In fact I ALWAYS back up every claim with proof, graphs, data logic evidence.

Also you know what I hate? I come with evidence, proof, data, logic, numbers and that offends a lot of Direct mail marketing and lists service providers .. I get it. But don't just snap at me with crap, gurlfriend. Show data, proof numbers. Bring it and we'll go at it. Don't come with opinions. I wipe my butt with opinions. Opinions are useless.

Come to me with data showing me that DMM is better than SEO. Show me!

Now ,let me address your concerns one by one.

Why am I on bigger pockets? To help others, duh.

For the same reason I am one of the bigger pockets speakers for the upcoming conference in New Orleans.

Next...

My war against DMM is justified.

See, bud, people think I am harsh on DMM because I have an SEO company. Those people are friggin morons. I HAVE an SEO company BECAUSE it is the best lead generation method.

I always wondered why the HELL anyone would start a DMM company when it is so friggin stoopidly obvious DMM is inferior. You do not target motivated sellers with direct mail marketing.

Do you really think that because you filtered that stupid list 15 times against absentee owners, age and mortgage left, that the remaining people are motivated to sell? NO you nimkampoop!

You are filtering your list based on criteria that have NOTHING TO DO with motivation.

You think that because I am an absentee owner having 2 houses that I want to sell one? AND that I want to sell one BELOW market value?

Well how about this pumpkins. How about I have 2 houses BECAUSE I WANTED 2 houses. How about I have 2 houses because I have enough money to buy 2 houses!! Why assume I need to sell one?

It is RETARDED!! Don't like it? Tough luck cry me a friggin river. Facts are facts. Numbers do not lie.

DMM is a joke. NOT opinion, FACT! It is not my fault some people are too simple minded to not see through DMM and fall for it. Seriously.. how many of you on BP are doing DMM? A TON of people. How many of people on BP are successful? 

Crickets!

Why do you expect to become successful doing the exact same thing as 97% of investors that fail are doing?

Think about that one for a day or 2.

So, spare me your jabs and attacks. I will destroy you with facts data, graphs, evidence and numbers proving you wrong buster!

What is the conversion rate for DMM?

3%? 5 %? (it is less than 1%) but I'll humor you.

Facebook marketing is about 6 to 12 %

PPC is about 8 to 15%

SEO is about 30%

(those are my numbers)

Oh and the 10% ARV? You don't get it do you.

That actually is LESS than 10% ARV!

I get ALL the friggin leads.

ALL the leads! 

The good ones, the bad ones the CRAZY good ones and the homerun deals. If you think only get deals of 10% ARV, obviously not. I get all the leads. I just cherry pick the best deals and that is why it looks like I only get good deals. I just only pick the good deals out of my list.

You know what is pretty funny?

WHILE you were writing your rants at me, an other lead filled din my form..

Wait, let me open it up for you. Let's see if this is an other homerun 10% ARV deal...

Do you REALLY seriously think your DMM got anything on me?

Dude you got nothing! So shush!

You may not like me, but I am still right!

Now, lastly. You don't have to do SEO if you don't want to. Stick to your DMM, but don't try to sensor me when it comes to true lead generation and marketing.  Just stick to your angry callers demanding you to take them off their list!

So boys and gals, anyone too stubborn to listen to reason and logic, keep spending your hard earned money on DMM.

I am not saying you don't make deals. I am saying that for that $2K you spend on DMM barely getting a deal, that money would have gotten you 4 deals doing FB ads, PPC, and if you are wise like me.. you won't need to spend a CENT on leads if you focused on SEO instead of fighting with angry postcard receivers from your DMM campaign.

And because my house purchases are so low, my profits are purty high ;)

So keep doing what you are doing. Convince everyone that DMM is the way to go without proof without any shred of evidence. Me, and a few others that have seen the light are doing it our way! Good luck with it man.

Lastly.. My rants are counterproductive?

Do you know how many people became succesful  here on BP because of my "rants"?

I have like 300 more of these!

P.S.  My response would have been way kinder if you weren't such a douche with your response. Keep your insecurities in check Mkay?

Oh @Jerryll Noorden .... no need to show us all the same 4 pictures of notifications from your carrot website. Or irrelevant metrics like purchase price compared to ARV, or gross volume (LOL). I was only having a little fun. I never stated SEO, nor DMM as being superior. That seems to be your thing.

My insecurities are in check, but based on your frantic response and "mine is bigger than yours" approach, I'd say you're the one who need to check themselves. 

I have seen folks achieve great success and ROI using DMM, that is my sole point. Now, back to work.

Originally posted by @Jake Soper :

Oh @Jerryll Noorden .... no need to show us all the same 4 pictures of notifications from your carrot website. Or irrelevant metrics like purchase price compared to ARV, or gross volume (LOL). I was only having a little fun. I never stated SEO, nor DMM as being superior. That seems to be your thing.

My insecurities are in check, but based on your frantic response and "mine is bigger than yours" approach, I'd say you're the one who need to check themselves. 

I have seen folks achieve great success and ROI using DMM, that is my sole point. Now, back to work.

 That's all you got?

Where is the evidence? Where do you back up your claims about DMM? 

Nothing right?

No worries bud, you aren't the first that tried to bark up against me, and you won't be the last. I'm still standing though.

Every claim you made I shut you up with evidence proof, data and now your tail is between your legs. Shoo fly!

Always the same.. "I have seen folks". 

My brothers friend lives in an apartment that has 3 flies that eventually flew out of the window and landed on a complete stranger that had a sister wholes cousin she got pregnant with also became successful with DMM".

Show me YOUR results!!

I GET IT.

I am not saying you can't become successful using DMM. Reread my post and we'll talk.. or not..

Dude, just let it go. SEO is better. just accept it!

You are savage @Jerryll Noorden  

@Jake Culler Jerryll may enjoy these comebacks more than you and put more time into them and I get you have work to do. Given you are from open letter marketing I would expect you to show some more data on direct mail. If not for Jerryll will you do it for me?

Originally posted by @Stephen Keighery :

You are savage @Jerryll Noorden 

@Jake Culler Jerryll may enjoy these comebacks more than you and put more time into them and I get you have work to do. Given you are from open letter marketing I would expect you to show some more data on direct mail. If not for Jerryll will you do it for me?

 I am savage to people that ask for it ;)

Ohh he loves it. Just look at him!

@Jerryll Noorden you keep referring to my claims.. where exactly in this thread did I make any claims about... anything. Go back and read my comments, because based on your replies you haven't replied to anything I wrote.

The only claim I made was that 1. i'm tired of your anti DMM tirade. And 2. that I personally help clients achieve great ROI using DMM.

Again, you are the only one here claiming anything. And the way you do it is a bit aggressive. We're on a forum, no need to get heated. I have not said a peep about SEO or its effectiveness.

I wanted to have a conversation about why you are staunchly anti-DMM, but you just want to drop workflow screenshots and pictures of you holding checks. That's not helpful for anyone listening in. 

Originally posted by @Jake Soper :

Oh @Jerryll Noorden .... no need to show us all the same 4 pictures of notifications from your carrot website.

I'll show you different pictures OK? Happy?


Originally posted by @Jake Soper :


I wanted to have a conversation about why you are staunchly anti-DMM, but you just want to drop workflow screenshots and pictures of you holding checks. That's not helpful for anyone listening in.

I quote:

If you're consistently getting properties at 10% ARV, why are you wasting time on BP, you should be a billionaire by now.

No need to hear your tireless, exaggerated chants against DMM, its counterproductive to the space.

End Quote!

If you wanted to have "just" a conversation with me,...  ohh I don't know.. you start with ..

"Yo Jerryll, you are handsome beyond comprehension, it is nice to meet you. Can I have a lock of your hair?

Any ways, I would love to understand why you think DMM is a joke, can we discuss this further?"

Ohh.. I don't know that is how I would have done it.

Man up to your mistakes, don't pretend you are the innocent victim here after I carved you a new bumhole!

Want to start over? Great.

Yo what's up man. Nice to meet you! I can help you make your DMM campaigns even better if you combined my SEO strategies with your expertise in DMM marketing, because the way DMM is done nationally as it is.. IS A JOKE! Let me know if you like to collaborate and I will be happy to share with you my suggestions!

I'll decide how I like to start conversations, thank you very much. 

I've seen your claims for years on BP, i finally decided to say whats up. Given your typical arrogant tone and replies on threads, I didn't think you'd fold like a napkin when addressed in such a way. Clearly I need to be a little more gentle with you going forward, so for that I really do apologize.

Yo @Jerryll Noorden  what's up man. I actually reached out to you to try and collaborate with the leads I could provide.  I agree with 90% of what you're saying and im sure @Jake Soper  does too. I think most people doing DMM can lower volume and increase phone calls. Jake even has a machine that actually uses a real pen to write your letters. There's no doubt its increasing opening rates. He is 100% helping real estate investors in this community and we should all respect our different approaches. I would be glad to try have a meeting with both you and Jake to see if we could work together. Is it ok to DM you?

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