Gas Stoves to be prohibited in New Builds - California

[Lori Goldsmith]

I’m not just a REALTOR®, I’m a gardener and an avid cook, so this news isn’t resonating with me, as I prefer gas to electric cook tops.
How about you? Which do you prefer? Thank goodness it will only apply to new builds, but is this a thumb’s up or thumb’s down for Builders/Investors? 

https://lnkd.in/gksR-eF8

Gas stoves are even worse for the climate than previously thought -- so much so that Los Angeles is banning most gas appliances in new homes and businesses. In doing so, California's largest city joins more than 50 other cities and counties in the that have made moves to discourage or prohibit the use of gas ranges. (No timeline for the new rule has been announced.)

[Chris Seveney]

@Lori Goldsmith

They are trying to do the same around the DC area as well.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Seth Borman:

They start when you don't have to pay $4,000 to $10,000 to install a gas meter.

Dude, you're hilarious. Like providing an electric meter is free? A neighbor of ours just got charged $19,000 for the elec run. 

And there is no electrical grid load problem in Cali? Ahahahaha, you cherry pick the alleged facts that suit your narrative......

[Bruce Woodruff]

Oh, and no one has mentioned that in order to run an electric stove, you must use fossil fuels. The green people always seem to forget this. The percentage varies by where you live, but it is somewhere between 60 and 90%.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @James Hamling:

And I remind, entire U.S. on 3 grids, East, West and Texas..... Guess where I am moving if this stupidity goes down across the nation....... 

I'll meet ya there, bud, if AZ falls. I already got plenty of cowboy hats if ya need a couple....

[Seth Borman]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Seth Borman:

They start when you don't have to pay $4,000 to $10,000 to install a gas meter.

Dude, you're hilarious. Like providing an electric meter is free? A neighbor of ours just got charged $19,000 for the elec run. 

And there is no electrical grid load problem in Cali? Ahahahaha, you cherry pick the alleged facts that suit your narrative......

 Pretty easy to build a home without a gas line, half of all new houses don't have one, but they all seem to have electricity, don't they?

The grid load problem in CA is because of ACs on hot days. Are you going to solve that with natural gas too? 

[Seth Borman]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Oh, and no one has mentioned that in order to run an electric stove, you must use fossil fuels. The green people always seem to forget this. The percentage varies by where you live, but it is somewhere between 60 and 90%.

 A gas stove is about 40% efficient, an electric stove is about 75% efficient. If you are in California, 50% of your electricity come from gas, the rest is mostly nukes, hydro or renewable (coal is .2%). Factor in distribution losses and you are still using less gas to run an electric stove than a gas one. 

But also keep in mind that the business case for electrified cooking is the weakest of all the appliances, the strongest case is for water and space heating where heat pumps use 1/3 the energy to do the same thing. Most people living in California would use less gas for heating if they had a heat pump that was powered by a gas turbine somewhere. They are that efficient.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Seth Borman:

But also keep in mind that the business case for electrified cooking is the weakest of all the appliances

But that was the whole point of this thread.....

Also Cali gets 73% of it's energy from fossil fuels and 16% from renewable. https://www.aeraenergy.com/whe...

In addition, CA also has to import almost 1/3 of its energy.

We could go on, but let's not. And let them ban gas stoves, I don't care anymore, I got out.

[Seth Borman]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Seth Borman:

But also keep in mind that the business case for electrified cooking is the weakest of all the appliances

But that was the whole point of this thread.....

Also Cali gets 73% of it's energy from fossil fuels and 16% from renewable. https://www.aeraenergy.com/whe...

In addition, CA also has to import almost 1/3 of its energy.

We could go on, but let's not. And let them ban gas stoves, I don't care anymore, I got out.

 Energy does not equal electricity, the 73% includes gasoline. Do you heat your home with gasoline? I don't.

[Bruce Woodruff]

You're twisting your 'facts'. For instance, Cali supporters like to say that the state only uses a small amount of coal power. What they neglect to tell us is that they don't have coal plants in California, instead they import it. Just like buying carbon credits....

"California’s politicians would like you to believe that their electricity comes from non-coal sources. However, while there are very few coal plants in California, making up only 0.4 percent of the state’s generation in 2014[i], California imports electricity from neighboring states and as much as half of Southern California’s electric generation comes from coal-fired generating plants in Utah, New Mexico, and Arizona. 
California is one of the nation’s largest industrial consumers of coal. In 2013, it was the eighth-biggest industrial coal user, consuming 1.4 million tons." (1)

(1) IER

[Chris Martin]

This post is just a reality check. I saw this: "as much as half of Southern California’s electric generation comes from coal-fired generating plants" and literally laughed. No, maybe 3%. Citing 2013-2014 data is like saying the average 3 BR SFR in Raleigh is $73,500. No. Maybe 2013. Not now.

Below is data from CA Energy Commission on recent history. 

[Bruce Woodruff]

Well of course numbers change in 10 years, but even using those numbers from the CA Energy Commission (kinda like the fox guarding the henhouse), we can do the math and see that coal imports are 9% (usage is now 3%, but it's the amount sourced that impacts the environment) NG is 37.9%, Nuclear is 9.3%, other and unspecified are 7%. That = 63.2%

And the point was about banning gas stoves and asking if that makes sense. Cali has more problems than that and better ways to combat their perceived issues. But look, if you support banning gas stoves, that's fine.

From the 2022 US EIA: https://www.eia.gov/state/anal...
California imports more electricity than any other state and typically receives between one-fifth and one-third of its electricity supply from outside of the state. California has the most registered motor vehicles and the most vehicle miles traveled of any state. Its travel to work times are among the nation's longest.12,13,14 California also consumes more than one-seventh of the jet fuel used in the nation.

[Frank Greg]

@Lori Goldsmith:

 Might be a convenient excuse for additions and other improvements around the house such as: http://shorturl.at/GHZ18

[James Hamling]

Quote from @Seth Borman:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Seth Borman:

But also keep in mind that the business case for electrified cooking is the weakest of all the appliances

But that was the whole point of this thread.....

Also Cali gets 73% of it's energy from fossil fuels and 16% from renewable. https://www.aeraenergy.com/whe...

In addition, CA also has to import almost 1/3 of its energy.

We could go on, but let's not. And let them ban gas stoves, I don't care anymore, I got out.

 Energy does not equal electricity, the 73% includes gasoline. Do you heat your home with gasoline? I don't.

 Hey, let's have some fun with math and data. 

As you can find here https://www.statista.com/stati... the U.S. is IMPORTING a bit more than 50 terawatt-hours of electricity from Canada and Mexico. 

A terawatt is one TRILLION watts. The average home elec use is 1,223 watts per hr. Doing the math that means the U.S. IMPORTS electricity from Canada and Mexico, for 4,965,707 homes. 

Yup, almost 5 million homes every year ran 100% by IMPORTED electricity. 

So, question. Just how "green" do you think a Mexican power plant is? That's all fossil fuels brother. 

So the argument to force homes off NG and onto 100% elec. for everything, will more then triple average energy consumption. It's not complicated, it will more then tipple IMPORTS of elec.. 5 million homes turns into 15. And actually more because the existing capacity of elec. production will remain unchanged so 100% of that new elec. draw will come from imports. 

So in the end, your only change is from NG too coal burning. Which would you rather breath in, coal smoke or NG? 

In earlier post I already covered use of solar panels, you only need a few BILLION sqft of them, so maybe turn AZ, NM and NV into a giant solar farm? 

This is a perfect example of Feelings vs Facts. Yeah, "going green" is a great slogan, it "feels" good, but to "go green" only requires doing a lot more polluting. Solar panels are one of the nastiest most toxic items to dispose of ever. Nuke plants require fuel, that get's spent, regularly, and remains insanely toxic for about 100,000 years or so. 

Reality is NG and propane are the single CLEANEST most eco-friendly energy sources in existence today with any viability of powering society. That's the facts. 

Changing the grid to all elec. works, if you BUILD NG power plants. And then, your only changing the location of the combustion. AND we have this lovely thing called line-loss, because there is energy loss from the transmission of it along lines. And then the maintenance of those lines, the fuel burnt in the production and upkeep of them. The radiation from transmission lines. Yup, elec. lines produce radiation. 

I get it, Californication get's bummed by all this brainy BS right, just chill and catch some rays, it's too much thinking right. Well, maybe it's why CA is in a tailspin of reaping consequences of short-sightedness and ignoring such facts.

I say CA should absolutely 100% do it, do all the things. I love it, because it protects the other 49 states from doing such idiotic things because all we have to do is look at CA and the fallout from such. Only problem is when you leave the hot-mess and come other places and try to export your idiocy. 

I am all about clean energy, but going all electric is NOT clean energy, it simply is not. It's a gimmick. An election campaign slogan for media regurgitating sheeple. The cleanest we've achieved as of yet that is scalable is NG. Mass scale solar has failed, now were trying micro solar farms. Wind is also failing because maintenance and rate of infrastructure decay. There is a reason the electrical producers are begging the gov. to let them build nuke plants, or NG plants, or really anything. 

Time or reckoning is fast approaching. 

[Bruce Woodruff]

Well said @James Hamling, as usual a breath of fresh air ....and actual facts!

[Pat L.]

This is alarming if not unbelievable ....

https://nypost.com/2023/01/18/...

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Pat L.:

This is alarming if not unbelievable ....

https://nypost.com/2023/01/18/...

 If that's true, rents will have to skyrocket to pay for the fines. Brilliant!

[Pat L.]

protected class ....

[Pat L.]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Pat L.:

This is alarming if not unbelievable ....

https://nypost.com/2023/01/18/...

 If that's true, rents will have to skyrocket to pay for the fines. Brilliant!

 & now the WH is studying ways to force LL's to provide more affordable rental accommodation across the USA .....the proverbial dichotomy !!

https://www.politico.com/news/...

[Chris Martin]

Quote from @Pat L.:

This is alarming if not unbelievable ....

https://nypost.com/2023/01/18/...

You realize this is an opinion piece by City Council Minority Leader Joe Borelli, right? Joe Borelli, the successionist? I'm assuming you do. I don't agree BTW with a ban on using gas for cooking or heating. I prefer gas for cooking but can adapt to what is available FWIW. Incentives, not mandates, make good policy.

[Bernard Joseph S.]

Quote from @Chris Martin:

Quote from @Pat L.:

This is alarming if not unbelievable ....

https://nypost.com/2023/01/18/...

You realize this is an opinion piece by City Council Minority Leader Joe Borelli, right? Joe Borelli, the successionist? I'm assuming you do. I don't agree BTW with a ban on using gas for cooking or heating. I prefer gas for cooking but can adapt to what is available FWIW. Incentives, not mandates, make good policy.

If you knew anything about Staten Island compared to the rest of NYC boroughs you’d  understand. Staten Island has talked about secession for quite a long time. There is a world of difference between SI and the rest of the cesspool that is NYC. How do I know? 43 year resident that finally had enough and left. Your hatred of Borelli is most likely political but that’s ok, we can’t really talk about that here. Have  a great evening 

[Bruce Woodruff]

Now they're talking about this on a national level.....Doubt it can go anywhere....