BuySellFixFlip, YellowLetters.com, CallText
This is going to be long, but certainly worth reading if you are considering any of these companies. Reading this may very well save you significant aggravation and money. I was hesitant to put in the time to document my experience, but I ultimately decided that it is our responsibility as members of this community to take the time to share our experiences in order to help each other avoid similar outcomes.
BSFF Gold Coaching: $1,397 on 6.26.18:
Lots of material provided and I thought it was fair for the price. I cannot speak to the actual “coaching” because I did not participate in the conference calls. I basically purchased the program to work through the online training modules as I could find time to do so, a couple hours here and there. I did not have the necessary time to fully dive in to get the most out of the coaching; therefore, I have nothing to complain about regarding the program, and again, the training modules are loaded with information and strategy.
YellowLetters.com: $1,841.92 on 3.28.19:
Series of 6 mail pieces to be sent to a tax delinquency list that my VA had sourced, scrubbed, and formatted. The final list was just under 500 names so I wasn't expecting a huge response. It was intended as a trial run so that we could implement our processes before increasing the list size substantially and spending some real money on direct mail.
4.15.19: James McCoy (with Yellow Letters, BSFF, CallText, who knows) tells me he didn’t get the data list. He then apparently checked his other email folders and found it. 1st mail piece went out 3 weeks after I had paid. I’m glad I followed up; otherwise, who knows how long the ball would have stayed dropped.
The first mail piece landed a few weeks later.
I then got to work with my VA to analyze local markets in order to determine which towns I wanted to focus on, to then purchase a list and greatly increase mail volume.
The plan was to start with around $2K/month (so a list of about 3,000 addresses or so). However, based on how things were going with CallText setup (this is their CRM and call/text/email platform), and the fact that 3 weeks went by after I paid for the mail campaign before they actually initiated the campaign and printed the 1st mailers, I figured I’d wait until the second piece arrived before dropping $12K on another 6-month campaign. I sure am glad I listened to my gut and hesitated.
3+ months went by and no second mail piece.
8.12.19: Emailed James McCoy asking to set up a 10-15 minute call with Michael Quarles. My plan was to address my concerns, gauge their reaction, and remain open to assurances and possibly continue working with CallText and YellowLetters. I don’t expect perfection. However, what I do expect is that a company will admit to and remedy its mistakes, and I also expect to feel that I’m being dealt with honestly and fairly, and that I can rely on the company moving forward.
8.19.19: No response to my email from a week prior. Emailed James again to follow up on the requested call with Michael.
8.20.19: Received email from Yellow Letters stating that the status of my order had changed to “Mailed”.
8.21.19: Still no response from James, other than the Yellow Letters email about status change which, unless incredibly coincidental, is suggestive that he received my email, realized I was aware that no additional mailers had gone out (or realized for the first time himself that no additional mailers had gone out), and then processed the second round. Left a voicemail at BuySellFixFlip requesting a call back. Also tried calling Yellow Letters. Got the voicemail greeting, but then a message saying that the mailbox is full. Bright red flag. Emailed James again asking if I should assume that he has no intention of returning my emails. He got back to me and said “Michael is out this week, but I can help”. Y’okay… I responded that next week would be fine. Followed up again on 8.27 and no response. Tried calling Yellow Letters again on 8.29 and same full voicemail as before. I also sent a message to Michael Quarles on BiggerPockets on 8.29.19. To date I have not received a response. On 9.11.19 I left a message for Michael Quarles (with someone who actually answered the phone at Yellow Letters). Have not received a call back.
On 10.2.19 (today) I tried calling Yellow Letters again, but received a recording that the number I dialed “is not permitted”, whatever that means. Maybe they blocked me. I also tried several times with my cell phone, and the call was immediately disconnected.
CallText: $1,188 to date ($99/month):
I subscribed to this CRM prior to sending any mailers because I wanted to get it set up to an extent prior to having to utilize it. I didn't mind paying the $99/month while my VA worked on getting it ready, because I figured that was a worthwhile investment; rather than risk losing potential prospects by not having a CRM ready to go (I get and appreciate the whole "imperfect action" thing, but I like to be at least somewhat prepared before launching something that requires significant capital outlay). They offer a service where they will actually set up the follow-up campaigns for you, for a fee of $2,500 if I remember correctly. I did consider this, but I chose to hand it to my VA because I felt that setting everything up from scratch would cause her to become very familiar with its capabilities and the possibilities of the software. Man am I glad I didn't throw $2,500 at that (again, I'm not 100% certain if I remember the price correctly; could have been $1,500).
My VA is very savvy when it comes to CRM and data management, but she had difficulty with ongoing glitches in the system, routinely canceled Q&A training calls (sometimes without even being notified that the trainings were not going on as scheduled), and a customer service team that would oftentimes not follow through with expectations they had set. They generally tried to return correspondence and spend time helping, but we got the impression that they were short-staffed and spread too thin (this is merely an inference, not a concrete observation). It was also indicated to my VA on more than one occasion that they routinely focus more effort on launching new features than on working out the kinks that already exist within the program. As an example of some of the difficulties, once my VA was able to get the automated email feature to work (after much frustration), they then kept coming even after she had cancelled the campaign and even removed the test email from the contacts. This is especially concerning since, once a certain number of emails per month is exceeded, additional charges start to accrue. The idea that once you have "cancelled" automated follow ups, they may still occur and accrue charges on your account, is very troubling.
Of course, the ultimate failure of any CRM is that if the mailers for which I paid are not being sent, there are no prospects to capture and manage with the CRM anyway…
Now, it’s important to understand that I am not concluding anything about Michael Quarles’ integrity. In fact, the main reason I chose his program was that he repeatedly espouses moral and ethical business practices on his podcast. One thing that bothers me about many wholesalers is that they advertise that they buy houses for cash when in fact they have no intention of doing anything other than assigning the contract. If unable to assign, they use a so-called “weasel-out clause” in their contract to back out. I find this to be disingenuous and unethical. Michael has said many times on his podcast that you should not put a house under contract if you have no means of fulfilling your commitment to the seller, and if you are unable to assign it, you should have a plan to complete the purchase. I agree. He also requires in his contract that the property must appraise significantly higher than the contract price, and the contract also discloses that he intends to make a huge profit. It is this level of honesty and transparency that drew me to his program in the first place. I don’t believe that one should have to mislead people in order to make a profit from doing business with them. From what I understood from listening to his podcast, Michael felt the same way.
So, I am not passing judgment on Michael's ethics or integrity. The fact that I did not receive what I paid for could very well be a result of incompetence rather than dishonesty. Perhaps Michael's staff simply dropped the ball, over and over. I know firsthand how difficult it can be to find quality employees, having had my share of them over the years. However, at the end of the day, when I pay for a product or a service and I don't receive it, the result is the same, and the underlying reason is largely irrelevant. Full voicemail systems, difficulty getting emails returned, a mailer going out 3 months late but coincidentally a day after I sent a second email following up… read into it what you will, but it doesn't really matter because, either way, I can't rely on a company that operates in this manner, intentionally or not. $4,426.92 spent so far between Michael's 3 companies, plus hundreds more on my VA's time, plus a fair amount of my own time. Perhaps my expectations are too high, but I feel that $4,426.92 should at least buy me a call back for a 10-15 minute conversation. Guess not…
I am initiating a dispute for the charges for the mailers, as well as the CallText subscription; which I have cancelled. I am not going to dispute the charge for the coaching because I got what I was expecting when I purchased it. I do wish I could recoup the money that I spent through my VA sourcing the tax-delinquency list (which everyone knows is time-sensitive) and setting up and troubleshooting CallText, but that is lost.
The bottom line is that I did not receive what I paid for from Yellow Letters, and my VA conveyed to me in great detail that CallText simply does not do what it claims, has serious functional issues, and has inadequate support. Furthermore, my endeavor to resolve this issue directly with Michael Quarles and his companies was met routinely and overtly with the decision to ignore my attempts to make contact.
It is my hope that this first-hand account of my experiences will be of benefit to anyone considering working with Michael’s companies, as well as to Michael and his team so that they can take action to improve. Of course, while I am not forming conclusions regarding Michael’s ethics and integrity, their blatant choice to ignore almost 2 months of my attempts at contact is rather suggestive in regards to their intentions, priorities, and character.
Happy investing,
Troy