Toledo, OH market feedback

24 Replies

Just wondering if anyone knows Toledo, OH well enough to know what areas of it are good areas. Also if you know in general what Toledos housing market looks like? Zillow says its a hot market. But is it a value appreciation market? Good for buy and hold? Any info would be great, Thanks!

@Varinder Kumar - I guess you'd have to define a "Value Appreciation Market" and I can respond better. If you search Toledo you will find many posts about the zip codes that will meet different goals...personally I keep half my investments in 43608 (with a rant posted about how dangerous the zip code is to those who go shopping without knowing what they are buying)...43608 is the zero-appreciation investment from my stand point because $20k gets me $700 in rent for a 3/1 so I don't really care if I sell the house for $20k in 20 yrs or $5k, I moved $168,000 in gross rent. 

43612 and 43613 are the out-of-towner's meat and potatoes currently, pretty hot area and a lot of competition on the discounted properties that hit the market...assume you are putting $35k to get $750-$800/mo for a 3 bedroom house.

Those are just my stomping grounds, I support my entire family on those areas (like Buffet, I have my eggs in one basket and I watch that basket). 


@Engelo Rumora just posted an excellent summary of areas including shaded maps so I'd look into those. His group Ohio Cashflow is pretty darn successful in the turn-key sector, definitely reach out to him if you are investing in that direction.

I buy the properties discounted, rehab the things, and then rent them so I have a much more complicated investment process, all depends on how you roll!

There's about six other areas in Toledo you can specialize in (South, East, Rossford, Holland, Swanton/Delta, Perrysburg/Maumee) and each has their own return threshold...really none is a bad move so long as you stay the course and get the rent money where you invest!

Originally posted by @Andrew Fidler :

@Varinder Kumar - I guess you'd have to define a "Value Appreciation Market" and I can respond better. If you search Toledo you will find many posts about the zip codes that will meet different goals...personally I keep half my investments in 43608 (with a rant posted about how dangerous the zip code is to those who go shopping without knowing what they are buying)...43608 is the zero-appreciation investment from my stand point because $20k gets me $700 in rent for a 3/1 so I don't really care if I sell the house for $20k in 20 yrs or $5k, I moved $168,000 in gross rent. 

43612 and 43613 are the out-of-towner's meat and potatoes currently, pretty hot area and a lot of competition on the discounted properties that hit the market...assume you are putting $35k to get $750-$800/mo for a 3 bedroom house.

Those are just my stomping grounds, I support my entire family on those areas (like Buffet, I have my eggs in one basket and I watch that basket). 


@Engelo Rumora just posted an excellent summary of areas including shaded maps so I'd look into those. His group Ohio Cashflow is pretty darn successful in the turn-key sector, definitely reach out to him if you are investing in that direction.

I buy the properties discounted, rehab the things, and then rent them so I have a much more complicated investment process, all depends on how you roll!

There's about six other areas in Toledo you can specialize in (South, East, Rossford, Holland, Swanton/Delta, Perrysburg/Maumee) and each has their own return threshold...really none is a bad move so long as you stay the course and get the rent money where you invest!

Thanks for mention Andrew,

We are sold out at the moment and can't really take on any new investors.

I'd suggest speaking to Andrew for proper advice.

He has been in Toledo his whole life and probably knows the market better than we do ;)

Much success

Originally posted by @Varinder Kumar :

Just wondering if anyone knows Toledo, OH well enough to know what areas of it are good areas. Also if you know in general what Toledos housing market looks like? Zillow says its a hot market. But is it a value appreciation market? Good for buy and hold? Any info would be great, Thanks!

I don't really know too much about that market or what is going on in Toledo that would attract people. Have you looked at some of the other booming markets in Ohio?  Cleveland or Columbus? They have a much higher demand for rentals so a buy and hold might work out better. 

Zillow can be misleading as well. 

@Rob Gillespie Toledo Lead Law is the least strict and easiest compared to all other cities that passed similar rental ordinances (New York, Rochester, Detroit, Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc.)   

Cleveland has a very strict rental law was passed last year which includes not just lead paint but a bunch of other inspections similar to Section 8.

All other Ohio large cities are watching Toledo Lead Ordinance and taking notes on implementation to pass similar laws. 

Adam Atassi

@Adam A. Not sure how strict it is in Toledo, I am very involved in OREIA, the Ohio Real Estate Investors Association as well as the Cleveland REIA, it is a real concern what is going on in Toledo for the group.

As far as Cleveland rental changes, we have a small registration fee for rentals without an inspection. I move in and out of over 100 rentals in the city per year and have not noticed a change. 

I apologize if you fell I am giving Toledo a bad rap. That is not my intention. I am sure there are plenty of folks making a lot of money there, I am just sharing what I know from the state REIA group and my personal experience in Cleveland.

@Rob Gillespie I'm also involved in Toledo REIA, PIN (Property Investor Network) and the Toledo Lead Ordinance. It's unfortunate that lead laws are the new trend as a money grab for cities.

Cleveland passed new rental inspection which includes lead las July

Governor Kasich proposed to expand the registration of "Lead Safe" rentals last year.

I became involved in the Toledo Lead Ordinance before and after it passed last year to help other landlords. I've written about the new Ordinance many times.

Yes, REIA and others make it sound like the end of rental market but trust me it's nothing to fear.  As a matter of fact, some wise investors will benefit greatly when others want to get it of the market due to such ordinance. As always, someone's coffee is another's whisky. 

Adam Atassi 


I agree completely Adam that if ya listen too much to the hype that it will paralyze you from doing business. Thanks for the links! We have not experienced the Cleveland inspections yet. Not sure if they are staffed enough to do them. If you are ever at the OREIA convention, would love to connect with ya and talk shop. 

@Varinder Kumar

Buenaa Paaaark Knotts Berry Farm!  My parents live there!  Huge Korean American demographics there.  

I think Toledo is more buy and hold market.  The margins oftentimes will be too small to achieve any significant appreciation but there's always exceptions.  Are you planning to invest out of state?

@Varinder Kumar , Toledo is NOT an appreciation market. I agree with @Andrew Fidler , you can get good cash flows in certain areas of town (43608 and other low grade areas) but you really need to know the market (can vary from one street to the next). 43612 and 43613 are good solid working class neighborhoods that will also cash flow, but obviously all that depends on your criteria. We have a few houses in 12 and 13 and have not had any problems with them (however, a lot of 13 is a flood zone, so be careful.) Hope that helps!

What @Dave Poeppelmeier said above.  Toledo is all about cash flow, it's not an appreciation market.  There are MANY markets in Ohio that are far better for that.

I've lived in OH most of my life, 33 out of 37yrs, and it's never been considered a top market even locally.  Sort of a Detroit overflow and gets a bad rap for sure.

Not that any part of Ohio is really amazing for appreciation, but I bought my home in 2011 as an REO at $445K and it's worth $750K now so it most areas of Ohio can't say that.

...I bought my house in 2004 for $207k and it’s currently tax valued at $162k. 

That would because I bought it 14 yrs ago and have zero intent to move and I’m aggressive at appealing my tax values on everything I own...it’s my largest single cost on my properties. (Well it would be if I hadn’t reduced it)

I use the same approach to my Toledo portfolio...I don’t really care what it appreciates according to our talking-heads. I care what it earns in cash every month. 

Buy with cash, buy for a discount vs today’s perceived market value, buy for today’s rent cash flow, finance very selectively, and stack the rentals high till you have as much income as you desire in life.   

(See the market place for Lucas county tax appeals- owners have until March 31st to file. I can file and apprear on owners behalf.)

@Andrew Fidler

(See the market place for Lucas county tax appeals- owners have until March 31st to file. I can file and apprear on owners behalf.)

Did you mean delinquent taxes and defaults? Or were you referring to owners appealing the tax bill issued by govt?

Thanks

@Ndy Onyido

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/517/topics/41...

I post each year in January reminding investors to get those property values appealed...I can do this as needed. This is a county event here in Ohio and one of my largest ongoing expenses. I appeal EVERY property I buy.

This doesn't have anything to do with delinquent taxes, the adjustment is for the current and future tax years.

Originally posted by @Craig Tinervin :

Hey guys, looking into the Toledo area for investing, how is the market in the 43606 area code? Namely Douglas Rd? Do 1 bedroom apts rent easily there at around $525?

Douglas Rd should be fairly decent although it's a busy Rd.

43606 is a "choppy" zip coded.

Closer to the hospital tends to be better.

As you start going toward downtown it starts getting rough.

$475 - $525 is solid for 1 bedroom apartments.

Happy investing :)

Hi All,  anybody know if this is a good Fix/flip or rental or runaway from it?

Dunham St, Toledo, OH 43609

THanks.