BiggerPockets Podcast 250: Grant Cardone on Multifamily Investing and Why You Should Never Buy a House!

by | BiggerPockets.com

It’s the episode you’ve been waiting for: Grant Cardone is BACK on the BiggerPockets Podcast! Last time Grant was on the show he owned $350 million in real estate. Now, with over $600 million, he’s just warming up! From the moment this show begins, it’s a high-powered, fast-moving, high-level (and hilarious) explosion of information and entertainment aimed to motivate, educate, and inspire you to greatness. You’ll hear why Grant thinks buying a house is one of the stupidest decisions one can make, his plan for avoiding the next real estate decline, and why he says NOW is the best time to invest in real estate—plus a lot more.  

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In This Episode We Cover:

  • What’s new with Grant
  • A discussion on the next real estate crash?
  • How to make money in today’s market
  • Why a low cap rate matters
  • How many offers he makes
  • How to get going on big deals
  • Why you need to go big
  • The mistakes amateurs are making
  • Various ways to learn more about properties without an agent
  • Why you should partner with someone with money
  • Areas to invest
  • Why you shouldn’t buy a house
  • The power of mobility
  • And SO much more!

Links from the Show

Books Mentioned in this Show

Tweetable Topics

  • “In good times, everybody’s a showoff.” (Tweet This!)
  • “The professional investor has to be willing to move to other markets.” (Tweet This!)
  • “Not being known at all is going to hurt you.” (Tweet This!)
  • “You don’t need a home.” (Tweet This!)
  • “Houses were for the banks and weren’t for the people.” (Tweet This!)

Connect with Grant

About Author

Thanks for checking out the BiggerPockets Real Estate Investing & Wealth Building Podcast. Hosts Joshua Dorkin & Brandon Turner strive to bring top-notch educational content and interviews to our listeners -- without the non-stop pitch prevalent around the industry. With over 1500,000 listeners per show, the BiggerPockets Podcast has become the biggest real estate podcast in the world. But don’t take our word for it. We’re the top-rated and reviewed real estate show on iTunes — check it out, read the reviews on iTunes, and get busy listening and learning!

51 Comments

  1. Karen Johnson

    I have a very hard time listening to Mr. Cardone. I admire his success but always feel a little insulted by his delivery. Perhaps it’s just me and I need to learn not to sweat the small stuff. Or perhaps I will feel differently as my business grows and his advise becomes more pertinent to my situation. By the way, a couple more bleeps required to make this show a bit more PG.

    • Ben Winchester

      I see where you are coming from, and I would guess you are not alone. He is very direct and abrasive and seems to be extremely passionate, to say the least haha. I also think that since he is so successful and controversial, it plays on peoples emotions… and he even says, everything is emotional. I think his success really stems from his controversial delivery. While I prefer more of what you probably prefer, a little humility, I have to force myself to look past his delivery and listen to his words to really be able to respect his perspective.

      in short, you are not alone haha

    • Shaun Hunt

      I agree with you, Karen. I can’t like or share this podcast. I hope this isn’t the real message of Bigger Pockets. I don’t think that it is. My guess is that they wanted a big name for #250.

      My wife only listens to these podcasts as background noise when I’m listening to them. We are a PG family. When it talk of his fist and how he rejected what his mom taught him among other things, both she and I weren’t impressed. I do realize that there are many that are not PG and that’s fine too, I just hope I don’t have to listen to something like this too many times.

      Here is a podcast you can listen to over and over. I have listened to this a dozen times.
      BiggerPockets Podcast 083: Profitable Landlording with Integrity with Marcia Maynard

      @MarciaMaynard sounds like one of the nicest people in the world. She would have been my choice over the guest they had for #250. Her podcast is the type of podcast I can like and share as well as listen to while my business partners (family) are around.

  2. Marcin G.

    Another great show guys! Thanks a lot!
    Would you clarify if Grant’s suggestion to Brandon what to do with $300K that he has ready for 1031 exchange deal can be combined with another $600K money raised and used to acquire larger multi-million $$ deal via 1031?
    I have heard that 1031 exchange is like marriage, for example, if you have 4 partners on one deal that you sell, then you are married to them and you cannot do 1031 exchange if the members of the partnership change, is that the casel?

  3. ryan kirk

    I’m guessing Grant’s situation is applicable to about 0.1% of BiggerPockets users. If you’re flying around in your private jet looking at $100 million deals – you’re probably not spending a lot of time reading articles or posting in the forums. For someone bragging about how many people he speaks to – he really failed to understand his audience this time around.

  4. Gregory Flores, Jr.

    Decided to listen to episode 108 to see how time has changed Grant’s outlook, and just wanted to share a gem: “Just imagine how valuable this is: If you could get half the people in the United States to hate you, you could be president.” To some, that is literally how Trump came into office.

    It’s all about putting yourself out there and being criticized.

  5. Vanessa Brown

    Grant is definitely memorable, if nothing else! I can totally understand and agree with some of the principles he’s getting at but his delivery does come across a bit crass at times. I liked what he had to say about freedom – although his idea of freedom may just be a little bit different. Overall I enjoyed the discussion.

  6. Ben Winchester

    This is a guy who’s success stems from a chip on his shoulder. The best come from people with chips on their shoulders. The whole podcast I sat back with my jaw on the floor, and not because I was impressed by him but because of how cocky, disrespectful, and closed minded he seemed. It wasn’t until the last 20 minutes when it finally hit home that he came from nothing and built his empire to prove, to whoever, that he could. Once he finally showed a little humility near the end, he gained my respect.

    I’m team Brandon on his argument of life goals. Fight for your goals and use whatever means possible to get there.

  7. Don Spafford

    I enjoyed this one as well as the previous podcast he did. Yes, he is direct and some people take offense to that kind of personality, but I think that is the personality type that get things done and become hugely successful because they don’t back down in an argument.
    I’m disappointed that there wasn’t another job offer on this one. Never heard what happened with the last offer, if any BP member got it.
    I would love to invest in his fund but I am not accredited. Can’t you set up a “baby” fund like the Berkshire B shares were called the baby berk? A pool of smaller funds.

  8. Rick Martinez

    I’m with Brandon. I feel most of our goals isn’t to build an empire. Empires come and go. Most of us want some financial stability in our older years so we don’t have to work as hard or not at all if we don’t want. I believe one can travel the world occasionally and own their own house all by doing the BRRRR…well at least I hope. That is why I recently started listening to BP.

  9. Tim Schroeder

    Grant is probably more in touch with the likes of Donald Trump than smaller investors. Setting aside his arrogant, brash cockiness, his statements about how foolish it is to own a SFR are completely out of touch with 99% of people in the world. Sure, I’d like to travel all over the world, and I want to be financially free. But I’d also like to snuggle up on my couch and play with my kids now and then. And when I’m old and tired of all this, I want a place to call home — like most of us do. To invest in MFR’s and apartments to build wealth sounds like good advice, but to say that anyone that owns their own SFR is a fool is just nonsense from someone whose ambition and ego have gone a bit wild.

    • Lisa DuFaux

      I totally agree with you, Tim. My impression went a little farther with the Trump analogy. Not only is he in touch with the likes of Donald Trump, he is LIKE Donald Trump. So caught up in his own ego that he’s incapable of seeing other perspectives or receiving input…nothing but output. Not impressed.

  10. Saeryon Park

    Heard he was controversial and cocky. I like his passion, energy, even his arrogance as a change of pace. But it was like listening to a comedian/entertainer and inspirational speaker. Not too much substance on how he actually got to his level. Just a lot of repeated phrases. HOW do you partner up with more experience and money??? HOW do you enter that power group? I would have liked to know how he got into the secret group for the 1%. His point of people all needing to be nomadic and chase deals is not for everyone. Some people need stability and a home base to deal with all the other moving parts in their lives. Especially Real Estate Investing.

  11. Nathan G.

    It would have been nice to filter a few of his offensive comments.

    His personality rubs a lot of people the wrong way but you can’t argue with his success. I don’t think a lot of his performance is replicable. In other words, he worked hard to get where he is but that doesn’t mean that all of us could repeat his success. It reminds me of Hal Elrod and The Miracle Morning Method. He provides solid principles that will help most of us improve our lives if we put them into practice but that doesn’t mean we will suddenly have the same energy and enthusiasm of Hal Elrod. Seriously, just watch his podcast. He had that energy BEFORE he started getting up early.

    Two things I take from this podcast:

    1. The market is going to change as the Baby Boomer generation down-sizes and dies off and the younger generation takes over.

    2. Your investing strategy should be driven by your personal goals, not Grant Cardone. Podcast 249 is a great example when Josh Daniels explains that he started out thinking he needed a hundred doors but he soon realized more doors means more work. What he really wanted was financial freedom and he could better achieve that through fewer doors and strong cash-flow. Someone like Grant wants the ability to pack his bags (or have his moving company do it for him) and jump to the next market but some of us prefer to focus on kids or other priorities.

    Like every podcast, there was something to learn. And I have to wonder: would Grant Cardone or Donald Trump be as successful if they weren’t so in-your-face?

  12. Jackie Young

    I had several frustrations with this episode.

    First, it was a sausage fest. This is a big problem in the RE world generally, but this episode is a good example of why it’s harmful to the space. Listening to a bunch of guys sit around and blame their wives for why they don’t have more freedom is absurd in this day and age. Plus, it papered over the real issue–that in fairness, Josh and Brandon tried to raise–which is that families with school aged children don’t want to and probably shouldn’t move around constantly. (There are several studies that have shown negative emotional and academic consequences for kids who move too much–see, e.g. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/cdev.12535/abstract;jsessionid=05CFF70094FA2F126275DFA9AAD5E164.f04t02). It makes sense, in some cases, to own for families in those circumstances. Owning can be cheaper and more reliable than rent. Not always, but certainly in some instances. I can’t help but think that if a woman had been involved in the conversation, she would have pushed Grant Cardone’s harder on this point. Josh and Brandon really soft-pedaled on it and then fell back on the “old ball and chain” locker room b.s.

    Which brings me to my second point: I would bet money that Grant Cardone is wrong about Millennials. The oldest Millennials (I’m on the older end of the Millennial gen, myself) are only just now starting to have kids. As they do, they will seek the stability of home ownership. I’ve seen this trend repeatedly amongst my peers and think the increasing number of Millennial home purchasers speaks to this. (See https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/mortgages/millennials-and-homebuying/).
    Certainly, Millennials may do homeownership differently and later than our parents did. We may not want our parents’ houses; we might want something different. That doesn’t mean we won’t want to buy that something different, rather than renting it. If nothing else, Millennials’ tendency to avoid face to face social interactions in favor of online interactions suggests that we won’t want to deal with noisy neighbors and the constant, forced human interaction that apartment life brings, forever. Grant Cardone is banking on Milkennials being poor and single (or, at least, childless) forever. That’s not realistic.

    Finally, although Grant Cardone’s perspective is certainly interesting, he repeatedly evaded the question of what an “amateur” or (worse) novice RE investor should do in this market. Josh asked him this question at least two or three different ways and, like any politician, he repeatedly reframed the question into something non-responsive that he wanted to comment on. Grant Cardone’s business strategy works for him. That’s great. But listening to him crap on other people’s business strategies without being able or willing to give an honest answer about what (and how) those people can practically do instead in this part of the market cycle makes his position pretty uncompelling.

    • Saeryon Park

      Jackie, high five!!! You addressed a lot of the issues I had with this episode. You made great counter points to his arguments. I agree that humans will want their own privacy and space and too soon for all that to change in a couple decades.

  13. Beth L.

    I agree with the others…this podcast should have been censored!!! Yes, there were a few bleeps, but the others should have been bleeped or cut out completely. I try to keep my young children involved in my real estate business as much as possible and train them at a young age. I sometimes will have them listen to the podcast with me while we drive. I am SO GLAD they weren’t listening to this one. A little more professionalism, please.

    Otherwise I LOVE these podcasts! I promptly listen to them each week when they come out.

  14. Jd Martin

    Just finished listening to this podcast and my thoughts are all over the place:

    1. I get the “big name” aspect of having Cardone as guest 250, but I doubt much of what he said has any applicability to 99.5% of Bigger Pockets listeners.

    2. There are (were) some good nuggets of info in there – having enough properties to act as a buffer against vacancies/capex, for example, and the safe areas of rental strata (800-1200, I would agree with that). On the other hand there was some total bunk in there. The idea that millenials will never want to own anything, and that home ownership was just a scheme cooked up by banks, flies in the face of thousands of years of human nature. The entire Western hemisphere was populated by people looking to own their own little piece of ground. Virtually everyone who wasn’t an immigrant, indentured servant or slave owned property in the 1800s, before the Industrial Revolution, in the United States. In fact, if you didn’t own your own land you often couldn’t even vote. Yes, home ownership was pushed in the 1930s but this was a confluence of factors – an attempt to end the Depression, racism, corralling and integrating immigrants, assist businesses (including banks & construction), etc.

    3. I am no stranger to vulgarity but a lot of the way he spoke was inappropriate for a podcast meant to appeal to a broad audience. We don’t have to be Disney but we don’t have to be obnoxious or misogynistic either.

    Mostly, I found his idea that everyone wants to be Grant Cardone to be laughable. So he wants to jet around whenever he wants. Good for him. I know a lot of people that are genuinely happy being part of a community, working jobs that they like that don’t make them a million, and creating a good life for themselves and their family, using real estate to add some nice side income or define their idea of “financial freedom”. His bragging about carrying supplies to Houston on his jet and all of his Irma charity I found mostly self-aggrandizing.

    I don’t want this post to come across as critical of BP or the podcasts – I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing to have some “controversial” guests from time to time – no one wants to hear Kumbaya all the time. That said, I personally find Cardone to be full of bombast and short on substance. I’ve read a few of his books and they aren’t terrible for inspiration but are mostly fluff designed to sell books. The guy couldn’t even name a couple of good books to read. In my opinion, he’s the Billy Mays of real estate.

    • Kim Stofan

      Yes!!!! Thank you @JD Martin. You’ve expressed my thoughts exactly on this podcast. I have listened to all 250 podcasts (some of them several times) and I have always found a few great takeaway points and tips in each one. When I saw that Mr. Cardone would be the guest on #250 I almost didn’t want to listen to it. I listened to it twice and really couldn’t find any great substance that I could use in my investing. I almost laughed out loud when he mentioned that EVERYONE wants to be like him. Ummm nope. Out of curiosity I watched a couple of his youtube videos and like him even less as a result.

  15. Julie Marquez

    I love the energy this guy has! He is a big business man, and his business just happens to be real estate. But not the type of real estate that works for me and my family. I love how he says he’s “a real estate guy” so he doesn’t spend much money, isn’t big into shoes; but leases a car and has a private jet and wants to move around to live in different places. (where is my laughing so hard I’m crying emoji!?!)

  16. Tobias Falzone

    If there is one thing I took away from this podcast, it is “Think Bigger”. Thanks for the reminder! Though for me, “bigger” right now is somewhere around 20-50 units.

    I do agree to some degree about the demographic shifts we are seeing with the younger generation delaying home ownership, marriage, kids, etc. but I don’t think we will see a wholesale change in the view on homeownership. I think to a lot of my millennial peers, homeownership is one of those things that seems a lot less attainable with all the other pressures of modern life and the growth of long term education debt.

    A lot of old grandma’s houses will be torn down or repurposed. I used to live in apartments, and once I rented even a crummy house, I could never go back, even to the nicer complexes with pools & gyms. There is something emotionally fulfilling about ownership and the control & freedom it brings. No one can tell me what I can or can’t do to my house.

  17. Andrew Frishman

    I love this Grant Cardone’s tell it like it is attitude……

    Just think his advice is contradictory: He says to Dive right into the “Big Multifamily” deals…find a professional to partner with on the multimillion dollar deals….and in the same breath he says ….Investors can only invest with his fund/team if you are an accredited investor with (200k in income/ 1 million dollars in assets) ?

    I am not a professional investor, or accredited…. but agree with allot of what Mr Cardone says…I have a deal I would love to “Dive into”..

    I was offered a 27 unit new build apartment complex…in NC….that I need 800 K in equity …to make it happen. It has a 7% cap rate.

    Shout out!!… Mr. Cardone…can we make this happen??

  18. Zack Helm

    Podcast is definitely something that gets the gears moving and wants you to really think about your whole thought process. His opinions definitely aren’t for everyone and if you can filter out some of his selling and absolutes he has some good practices. I just wish he would give more advice to people that are straight out of college or really have no experience/capital. Every time he talks about people who are ‘small’ he still talks about 30+ units in 1 purchase.

    However, I do have a question is around minute 31:00-33:00 of the podcast he talks about the insurance premiums rising for Florida residents within the next 30 days from $500/unit to $1,000-$1,200. I’m sure this is from the Hurricane but what does that mean long term? Is that a premium paid per unit per month? I’ve been looking to get involved in Florida and I would definitely be one of those “small guys” with a “few units ranging from 2-6”.

    • Rocio Zamora

      The premium increase in your insurance (if any) will be reflected at the time of renewal of your policy. If premium goes up, it will increase your escrow deposit and monthly escrow payment if you have a mortgage. If you pay more in escrow, your monthly mortgage will go up and thus, it will eat some of your current monthly cash flow.

  19. Rocio Zamora

    As Cardone said it in this podcast: He is building a multifamily empire to be sold to the big Wall Street Investment Firms in the next 5 years. His goal is to be bought out for billions, thus the need for thousands of units..
    Each person should invest based on their individual goals.. if you want to be bought out for billions then follow his advise.. There are many ways to create passive income from RE, you should follow the one that better suits your personal goals..

    • Paul B.

      I’m not sure either. Is he saying just to lie about when you identified the property (since it needs to be within 45 days, but I don’t know how it gets documented), as long as you close on it within the required six months?

  20. Jonathan Watson

    Grant Cardone is so inexplicably extroverted that he is in apple of seeing anyone else’s perspective. His emotional immaturity, self-centered ego, and my-size-fits-all attitude is no help to anyone. Let’s get real people on the podcast, not these caricatures.

  21. Gary John

    Grant Cardone rocked this one for all the reasons mentioned above. He’s rich, he’s abrasive, he’s funny, he’s uncensored. But he’s also an incredibly successful salesman who has taught tens of thousands how to be better at sales. I’ve read Grant Cardone books, watched his speeches, and occasionally listen to his weekly podcast because he motivates me. I hear him in my head: “I don’t have an expense problem, I have a revenue problem.”

    Grant, day in and day out, does a masterful job of hammering home the need to produce more, increase top line revenue, add more value, understand financials, create larger goals than you think possible. Like many listeners leaving comments above, my wife doesn’t care for his over-the-top style. But for me, it’s gold.

    Great job, Josh & Brandon! And congratulations on 250 shows in the can!

  22. Mark Graffagnino

    You can’t deny his success and he’s definitely got some good advice. It’s just too bad you have to get past his attitude of “Here’s my strategy; either do this or you’re an idiot” to grasp it. I think many people, myself included, kind of shut down the processing when confronted with that arrogance.

  23. Anthony Colonnetta

    Want some clarity on something Grant said. If Grant say that his business has 4,000 properties, does that mean that his business and the investors that invests in his different funds own a total of 4,000 properties? Or does that mean that his business and the investors might own 10,000 total units but his business owns 4,000 of those units and the investors own 6,000 of them? Does that make sense? Could someone give me clarity? Thanks!

    • Keith Kellermeyer

      Hey Anthony,

      When Grant mentions the amount of properties he deals with, it is the total of his investing company, not his individual property count. I do not think Grant would want to give a smaller number of investments he personally owns rather than give the total number of investments he is involved in. Grant seems like a big numbers kind of guy, so I believe when he mentions the number of investment properties he has (4000) that includes his investors and the company they’re held in.

      Hope this helps!

  24. Tara G.

    Freaking loved it. I really picked up some things here that made sense to me. Thinking bigger and thinking ahead…where are we going and what do people want/need. The thinking small has me a in a comfort zone, but also has me a little let down with the numbers. When I think bigger- and I’m still a work in progress, here, the numbers make a lot more sense for the effort. I basically zoomed out and stopped looking where I was looking…and I see more opportunity.

    The thinking bigger and partnering is something I NEEDED to hear. I am very much ‘don’t trust anyone else to do it right,’ and I think that’s probably become its own monster in my head. It’s something that’s holding me back.

    I liked the energy and the frankness- I am genuinely interested in hearing how someone else thinks, works, and sees things. I’d be happy to see him back on the show.

  25. Steven Bonfante

    Certainly not one of my favorite podcasts. I don’t think I learned a thing beyond the fact that Grant Cardone is very impressed with himself. I’ll chalk it up to performance anxiety.

    On the other hand, I’ll have to do more research on him. You can’t build up $600 million and have best selling books without having some real sage advice.

  26. i loved this podcast.. very inspiring… he is spot on…. I did Anthony Charas course on apartment buildings ….he is awsome…and show you how to do the bigger deals.. i recommend it to every one..Brandon.. you should do it too..

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