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Real Time Resolutions

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Mitch Freed

Property Manager from Portland, Oregon

Sep 09 '09, 07:22 AM


Has anybody had any negotiating experience with Real Time Resolutions? I've got an approved short sale with Litton as the first and RTR as the 2nd.

Litton has sent me an approval letter and they are allowing 3k to RTR.

RTR negotiator has rejected the 3k and is asking for 12k.

I submitted the request to my Litton negotiator who gave me an obvious answer of "no way."

Subsequently, the RTR negotiator closed the file.

Auction date is 30 days away. Buyer is lined up to close etc...only problem is Jr. lienholder.

Anybody dealt with something like this before?

Thanks!


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Christopher W.

Residential Real Estate Agent from Orange County, California

Sep 09 '09, 07:30 AM


I've never done this myself, but I have heard from other far more experienced investors that they come up with the difference out of their own pocket. I don't like that answer either, but it is what they end up doing most of the time. If you are working with real estate agents, sometimes they will take a hit on their commission, but that varies from person to person as well.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Mitch Freed

Property Manager from Portland, Oregon

Sep 09 '09, 07:36 AM


That is definitely one solution, but it won't work here. I am simply the negotiator on this file...I am not closing the deal and then flipping to an end buyer. I'm just negotiating this thing for a friend.

The buyer is FHA and most likely won't have the extra cash to be able to come up with what RTR is demanding.

What is also strange is that part of the 12k is RTR requiring that the seller contribute 4k of their own funds. The seller is in foreclosure and is broke...so it just doesn't make much sense.

And yet, RTR won't budge.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Christopher W.

Residential Real Estate Agent from Orange County, California

Sep 09 '09, 07:44 AM


Oh in that case I don't have enough experience/knowledge to help you out any more. I'm still new at this. I would be very interested to find out what ends up happening though.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39 by Christopher W.


Mitsu O'Riley

Real Estate Consultant from Savannah, Georgia

Sep 09 '09, 12:40 PM
1 vote


I haven't dealt with RTR yet, but here is a suggestion:

Ask them who their investor is. If they won't tel you, ask them how the homeowner can find out. Sometimes they can all and get the answer, but other times they have to fax a request to the find out. Then send a letter to the investor directly.
The sale date can be postponed by the first. Let them know what you are doing to resolve this. See if the attorney for the 1st can help. Usually you can't get the right person that can do this. Send a letter to the judge explaining the situation.

What should work is if the seller will get an attorney to send a letter to RTR.

Are you asking them to release the lien paid or release with them able to pursue the deficiency? Can you get the 1st to call the 2nd for you? Can you get the 2nd to accept a promissory note? Can you escalate it? Resubmit the file if you have to. It's a lot of work, especially if you are doing it as a favor.

Goo Luck.
~M


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Scott Hubbard

Rehabber from Tucson, Arizona

Sep 09 '09, 01:06 PM
1 vote


I have dealt with them.... Eric Luna think is his name. I was also the negotiator on this file and I offered $3K as well. These guys are tough to work with. Was the second non-purchase money? If so, then they will pursue the debt until the debtor is dead or it is paid.

In my case, I was able to have the seller kick in an additional $3K to sweeten the pot and was able to get the deal done. I convinced the seller that paying $3K to avoid a judgment was a no-brainer.

Since I think RTR only buys non-purchase money loans, they will be looking for 20% and they will let it burn rather than settle for whatever the 1st dictates.

You are going to have to get either the buyer or the seller to kick in off HUD1 in order to get the deal done.

I tried the promissory note thing and they would not go for it.

Good Luck!


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39 by Scott Hubbard


Scott Hubbard

Rehabber from Tucson, Arizona

Sep 09 '09, 01:21 PM
1 vote


Originally posted by Mitch Freed:

What is also strange is that part of the 12k is RTR requiring that the seller contribute 4k of their own funds. The seller is in foreclosure and is broke...so it just doesn't make much sense.

And yet, RTR won't budge.

If the second is non-purchase money, then RTR will file a default judgment and hound the seller to the ends of the earth. Or they might sell the rights to collect this debt to another collections company.

I know this type of company very well and they believe the debt is worth more than the $3K your offering. And they are right.

I know the seller does not have the money, but believe me, they do not want this debt to go unsettled.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Mitch Freed

Property Manager from Portland, Oregon

Sep 09 '09, 01:21 PM


Hi Scott and Mitsu

Thanks for your input, very helpful!

Eric Luna was the first negotiator I was referred to but I ended up with a guy named Craig Gilbert. Craig was the one to reject Litton's offer of 3k.

Looking at the transaction history...it looks like the 2nd ($46k) was used to purchase the house. So correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't that make this loan non-recourse and they wouldn't be able to pursue after the foreclosure?

I can probably get the real estate agents involved to reduce their commissions ...but as far as the borrower coming up with any money...that might be a tough sell.

The negotiator at Litton is working to resolve the issue with RTR...so i've got some support there.

The negotiator at Litton made a comment that RTR is allowed 10% of the unpaid debt or 3K.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Mitch Freed

Property Manager from Portland, Oregon

Sep 09 '09, 01:24 PM


Also,

These are trust deeds...there is no deficiency judgment in Oregon.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Audley Humes

Real Estate Investor from Jacksonville, Florida

Sep 09 '09, 01:49 PM


Hello Mitch,

I agree with Mitsu. I would 3 way with Litton and RTR, and let the Loss Mitigator from Litton explain that RTR is only allowed to get $3,000. Have you reiterated to RTR the fact that, if the property goes to auction they will receive nothing ... so $3,000 is better than nothing. at all.

Have you tried saying homeowner will file bankruptcy if no agreement is made or maybe resubmitting a more in-depth hardship letter explaining homeowner is insolvent and it will be impossible to bring any funds to closing? That's crazy how the 2nd is asking for funds from the seller, when they will be wiped out at auction.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Mitsu O'Riley

Real Estate Consultant from Savannah, Georgia

Sep 09 '09, 01:50 PM


Originally posted by Mitch Freed:
Also,

These are trust deeds...there is no deficiency judgment in Oregon.


Does RTR know that? It might be worth while to get that written law section and send it to them, with your letter. In these situations, I find submitted in writing goes a lot father than verbal conversations.

Do you have a closing attorney? Have them write a letter regarding the legal rights etc for you to send. This way, they are not just taking your word for it.
Remember, the negotiator is someone that has been working collections for a credit card co for the last few years, if they have that much experience. They might own their first home, and have no idea what the numbers actually mean to someone losing their house.

But, at the end of the day, if the negotiator knows in the the state of Oregon, they can't come after the buyer, then they should settle. At this point, push as hard as you can. They already said no. What can they do say no again? And again? Then it gets foreclosed, and they get ZERO?

Shoot, if they fight for the deficiency, I would probably sue them back for not accepting a short sale that ruined the seller's credit for 7-10 years.
They can accept the short sale, release the lien, and reserve their right to pursue the deficiency as allowed by law.

Send it all in writing. When they push your sellers, (if this doesn't pan out) then faxes are recorded in the file, and can be brought to court.
The seller's might have some money to push them back in court by then. Or their may be a class action suit....
They are coming.
~m


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Mitch Freed

Property Manager from Portland, Oregon

Sep 09 '09, 02:02 PM


Hi Audley,

Thank you as well! The negotiator from Litton will definitely be some help...I'm hoping he can get through to RTR.

But I'm thinking there is more to the situation as Scott explained earlier...not as simple as using the auction date as leverage...seems that RTR may have plans beyond the auction.

One thing that may work in my favor is that this loan was a purchase loan...I haven't brought that fact up yet to RTR.

Hopefully tomorrow will yield some more updates.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Scott Hubbard

Rehabber from Tucson, Arizona

Sep 09 '09, 02:03 PM


I am surprised the 2nd is non-recourse because RTR normally buys only recourse loans.

Perhaps bring it to their attention that this is non-recourse and Oregon is anti-deficiency. Offer them a little more like $4K total to get your foot in the door and tell them the seller will not contribute because they cannot come up with Jack. Include Litton's response to RTR getting more to settle.

Even though Oregon is a anti-deficiency state, RTR can still pursue the sellers post-foreclosure. Actually both Litton and RTR will likely pursue.

You might give me a call tomorrow, my company name is in this sites directory. I might have some ideas and I hate typing this much.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Mitch Freed

Property Manager from Portland, Oregon

Sep 09 '09, 02:08 PM


Scott,

Many thanks! I will definitely call you tomorrow.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Scott Hubbard

Rehabber from Tucson, Arizona

Sep 09 '09, 02:13 PM


Originally posted by Audley Humes:
Hello Mitch,


I agree with Mitsu. I would 3 way with Litton and RTR, and let the Loss Mitigator from Litton explain that RTR is only allowed to get $3,000. Have you reiterated to RTR the fact that, if the property goes to auction they will receive nothing ... so $3,000 is better than nothing. at all.

It does not matter what Litton will pay, RTR can still have the seller contribute by paying RTR off HUD 1. I have done many settlements out of closing and RTR knows this.

I too agree with this tactic about doing a conference call, but you might first try and go up the chain of command since this guy is the first level collector anyway. Rule#1 in negotiating is to talk to a decision maker.

Also fax all this information to Craig and copy Eric since I know he knows what he is doing.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Christopher W.

Residential Real Estate Agent from Orange County, California

Sep 09 '09, 02:18 PM


If the seller comes up with some money to pay off the second, does that affect the negotiations with the first at all? I mean if the seller has cash lying around (especially a few thousand), wouldn't the first want a part of that? If not all of it?


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Mitch Freed

Property Manager from Portland, Oregon

Sep 09 '09, 02:26 PM


I like the idea of the settlement outside of closing...convincing the seller to contribute however may be harder than getting RTR to play ball.

I believe Craig may be the same level as Eric...apparently they are both senior negotiators. But I do know that they have a supervisor...so I'm trying to get contact info for whoever that is.

I imagine there is some middle ground...could be a combination of realtors giving up some commission dollars and Litton allowing a bit more to RTR in closing.

RTR must figure that if they play hardball long enough eventually some more money will come their way...other bigger lenders/servicers seem to settle at 3k no problem but that could be because they don't have the time/resources to negotiate for more money.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Mitsu O'Riley

Real Estate Consultant from Savannah, Georgia

Sep 09 '09, 02:44 PM


I would just ask Litton about it. Maybe not your negotiator for this deal, but someone with some knowledge the hypothetical question.

I feel, if the 1st has approved with the terms in writing, then they could let it slide to get it closed. Now if you're talking 9k when the seller showed he didn't have that, you might have some explaining to do.
On the other hand, the first has investor guidelines to follow. It's their primary, and if they don't have the income to support the payment on the mortgage, then the small amount of assets is not something they go after. The MI co does, but most investors don't ask for the cash contribution on a primary 1st.
Litton is willing to give them 10%, so send in the new HUD with that. Keep submitting until you get a number that works. If the file is "closed" then it wasn't denied. Try asking for a denial letter. I think regulation or investor requires a denial to have a reason now. Like buyer walked. Or insufficient funds for short payoff.

Scott,
I have always told the 2nd, if they want something it has to go on the HUD and that I am shocked they want us, the sellers, etc to do something that can potentially be considered (should I say the f word?) fr aud, by hiding it from the 1st lien holder. They usually realize they went past the line and start figuring out something. But I haven't worked with RTR yet.

~M


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:39


Audley Humes

Real Estate Investor from Jacksonville, Florida

Sep 09 '09, 11:58 PM


Hello Scott,

I didn't think this was an option simply, because from Mitch's post Seller has no money what so ever.

"Rule#1 in negotiating is to talk to a decision maker."

This statement is very true!

Mitch, have you spoken to the Realtor about potentially having to take a cut in
commission or some how working in a Sellers Concession? What type of loan is it? (who is the investor) Is the offer the bottom line NET Litton will take? Is there PMI on the loan?

You might be able to up the payoff to RTR to $4000, while keeping the NET payoff to Litton the same, by offering a higher Gross offer.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:40 by Audley Humes


Mitch Freed

Property Manager from Portland, Oregon

Sep 10 '09, 01:49 AM


Well it looks like RTR has become a thorn in the side of Litton for sure.

I received an update from the Litton negotiator this morning letting me know RTR has become a major issue for several accounts.

They are working to resolve it....we will see.


Edited Jun 26 2010, 09:40


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