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Forums » Real Estate Development » advice for starting developer

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35 posts by 11 users

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Banker · Westmont, New Jersey


ok, So I do hard money loans for a living & project development

& I got to thinking well daym why don't I do it my self & with my own company

I live right in Philly right now & we are going to be having a huge boom with al the casinos coming in -

I am well connected in my city & have found land on the water front that would be a crazy mulit million dollar investment

the issue is I have no start up capital myself & no knowledge on too much of anything outside of getting it financed

I do how ever have contacts inside the city & state to get zoned & permitted & everything else

so what are my next steps & advice on how to proceed ?

thanks

Josh Holiday


Architect · CAMDEN, New Jersey


develop your business plan and market it to local investors to come up with the seed money... hit me up would love to talk more


Real Estate Investor · Kentucky


You could look for investors... but then again, those same investors could go snatch up the property and implement your plan.

The first thing you do is like Ray said... Develop a plan. Not so far as a business plan, but an idea as to what you want to develop there. The business plan will come after you have an idea of costs and capital needs.
One of the best things about being a developer is utilizing tax credits, preferably, the LIHTC, (LOW INCOME HOUSING TAX CREDIT). They are issued by your state housing authority to developers willing to allocate a portion of the development to low income rental units. These credits are then sold by a tax credit syndication firm for you, which will provide you with financing for the project. During the application process for the credits, contact a syndication firm and inform them of the number of credits you might be receiving, they will then give you a commitment letter as to what their buyers will pay if you receive the credits. You then take this letter to the bank, along with your plan, and ask them for sub 2 financing. "If I receive the credits, they will be sold at this price (currently in the .70-.80 range) will you finance the rest of the project?" This shouldn't really be a problem considering a 100% low income development can usually cover 50-70% of the development cost from syndication.

Right now, thanks to the Recovery Act, there are plenty of other development tax credits available... the big thing right now in the tax syndication market is green developed projects.

If you are interested in development, I would highly suggest learning all you could about the benefits of selling tax credits...


Real Estate Investor · Denver, Colorado


The most common misconception about real estate development is that the developer is the guy with the money. He's not. He's the guy with the idea. The sponsor is the guy with the money. 3 main players: developer, sponsor and builder.

Tax credits are something to consider but if you're doing a multimillion dollar water front deal then I doubt you want to waste your time learning about low income housing tax credits.

Sketch out your executive summary. Then start researching WHO in your area has experience with that type of development. I've researched LLC filings with my Secretary of State to get names to contact. You can do the same.


Real Estate Investor · Denver, Colorado


Originally posted by Dustin Lyle
You could look for investors... but then again, those same investors could go snatch up the property and implement your plan.


Scarcity mindset alert. Do a NDNC if you are paranoid about presenting your opportunity to sponsors.

Real Estate Investor · Springfield, Missouri


Originally posted by Dustin Lyle
You could look for investors... but then again, those same investors could go snatch up the property and implement your plan.

The first thing you do is like Ray said... Develop a plan. Not so far as a business plan, but an idea as to what you want to develop there. The business plan will come after you have an idea of costs and capital needs.
One of the best things about being a developer is utilizing tax credits, preferably, the LIHTC, (LOW INCOME HOUSING TAX CREDIT). They are issued by your state housing authority to developers willing to allocate a portion of the development to low income rental units. These credits are then sold by a tax credit syndication firm for you, which will provide you with financing for the project. During the application process for the credits, contact a syndication firm and inform them of the number of credits you might be receiving, they will then give you a commitment letter as to what their buyers will pay if you receive the credits. You then take this letter to the bank, along with your plan, and ask them for sub 2 financing. "If I receive the credits, they will be sold at this price (currently in the .70-.80 range) will you finance the rest of the project?" This shouldn't really be a problem considering a 100% low income development can usually cover 50-70% of the development cost from syndication.

Right now, thanks to the Recovery Act, there are plenty of other development tax credits available... the big thing right now in the tax syndication market is green developed projects.

If you are interested in development, I would highly suggest learning all you could about the benefits of selling tax credits...


HI, EXCELLENT IDEA if you are policically connected because to do a Section 42 Tax Credit deal you will need to be. Contact your local hosuing authority for assistance in the beginning. You can easily form a non-profit as a conduit and use the local PHA for assistance. You will also need a HUD approved management company with a track record if the PHA can't administer the project. You should have a Section 42 developer in your area which would make life easy for you and you can partner with them. Again, someone with a track record. I'd suggest you use the market rate properties for your profits and you could really come out pretty well with that. After all, the tax credits will provide more than seed money that would provide the infrustructure for you side of the development. Then you can go to conventional financing alternatives. One easy concept is for you to retain lots after the project is completed. You can go residential or commercial in such projects with a mixed use project. Good Luck, Bill

Real Estate Investor · Carlsbad, California


Susan and Bill, love your advice!!! Someday I'd like to do some community housing project, maybe in 3 to 5 years and with your tidbits of info, I can file it away for future reference. No offense, but God Bless! -- Dawn


Real Estate Investor · Denver, Colorado


Thanks Dawn.


Real Estate Investor · Springfield, Missouri


Thanks, Dawn, but you don't need to wit that long, see if you can find a niche with a tax credit developer, but they won't teach you everything I'd bet. Tax credit developments are very competitive, reason for that is....you guessed it......you can get rich quick off developer fees and construction. Bill


Real Estate Investor · Kentucky


Originally posted by Dustin Lyle

You could look for investors... but then again, those same investors could go snatch up the property and implement your plan.

Scarcity mindset alert. Do a NDNC if you are paranoid about presenting your opportunity to sponsors.

~What good is an NDNC if you don't have the financing to either peruse or pursue an antitrust suit?

The sponsor is the guy with the money. 3 main players: developer, sponsor and builder.

Graduating from USC in 08' with an MRED, I've never heard the term "sponsor" used when referring to the financing of a development project.

Tax credits are something to consider but if you're doing a multimillion dollar water front deal then I doubt you want to waste your time learning about low income housing tax credits.

Many many multimillion dollar waterfront deals are done using tax credits... They are the main source of financing for over 96% of commercial developments inside the US< FACT. They give substantial weight when applying for the bridge financing to complete the deal.
LIHTC's aren't the only tax credit's available- Although not advertised or announced to the public, most every municipality has an allotment of tax credits to distribute for many different reasons. Also, when in the planning stages, you might put in applications with the state and local governments for a Tax abatement for a scheduled period of time.This tax abatement would make the development more marketable when/if you decide to get out.

see if you can find a niche with a tax credit developer, but they won't teach you everything I'd bet. Tax credit developments are very competitive

That is VERY correct! The people who deal in tax credit attainment and syndication can almost be considered a secret society.


Real Estate Investor · Springfield, Missouri


Now, I keep saying there are no "secret" ways to do real estate transactions, and there you go saying there is a secret society! LOL! Let me say it this way, someone would have to be off the old rocker to attempt to do a multi-million dollar water front project in a major city with out taking advantage of tax credits!

There are all kinds of tax abatements and concessions the city will make, The economic development agency of your state probably has a list of funny money deals that could apply to a project like that. A secret society, not really, but almost. As I said way up there, it's political, there are only three main tax credit developers in Missouri, what does that tell you, and one is a friend of mine.
Have you ever heard of Bass Pro? Johnny Morris (owner of Bass Pro)doesn't put in a bass pro shop without tax incentives, he is putting in a museum within 100 feet of his main store in Springfield, Mo. that was basically funded with federal dollars.
I have no idea how much land there is available on the water front. but water means a desired location, unless it's a cesspool. If you have access to such a property, you probably have a gold mine! Banks don't make 15 or 20 million dollar loans any more, those are participations with several banks or insurance companies, hedge funds, etc. with one as the lead lender. They can't compete with syndicated tax credits. Finding the right syndicator is key, they take a slice for selling off the tax credits. I'm getting off this now, it's an exciting avenue for financing with many variable and I could go on for pages, maybe even a book. I think everyone gets the idea.....Good Luck with that!! Bill


Real Estate Investor · Kentucky


Now, I keep saying there are no "secret" ways to do real estate transactions, and there you go saying there is a secret society!

LOL! What I meant by that, was that people who hold the information surrounding the tax credit topic tend to keep close knit. There's not too much information readily available.


Real Estate Investor · Denver, Colorado


Originally posted by Dustin Lyle
Graduating from USC in 08' with an MRED, I've never heard the term "sponsor" used when referring to the financing of a development project.


LOL! Sorry, that's a term we use in real life when structuring the financing on development deals. Perhaps you've never participated in a real life development deal.


Many many multimillion dollar waterfront deals are done using tax credits... They are the main source of financing for over 96% of commercial developments inside the US< FACT.


Yes, but I said LOW INCOME tax credits. If you're going to disagree make sure you read. I'd be very interested in seeing documentation of a waterfront development financed with LIHTC.



Real Estate Investor · Springfield, Missouri


Well Good Morning All!

Well, I guess this still isn't over! A sponsor is usually a non-profit or a PHA. In 1995, when some began in the real estate business, it was not necessary to have a "sponsor" for a LIHTC, and really even today it is not a requirement, but try getting a deal done without one. The only required parties are the developer, who can also provide the management and a tax syndicator. A sponsor can be a money guy as Dustin pointed out and was also referred to as the Project Owner usually in partnership with the Developer. As LIHTCs became more competitive, ruthlessly so, and as a requirement of obtaing an award of a project, local government entities had to sign off, approve and request that the project be approved. The needs analysis for the project must show that existing low income housing is insuffucient in the community. Well, who was in a position to declare such a shortgage? The local Public Housing Aiuthorities! While each state doles money out with slightly different political stratigies, showing the need for the project is a requirement. Thus the "sponsor" was born. Where no PHA exists, like rural areas, there is usually a non-profit corporation that provides Section 8 management under contract with HUD. These NGOs usually provide other social services, everything from GED programs to weatherization for homeowners. These NGOs or PHAs may sponsor a LIHTC project, maninly to administer the project for the Owner/Developer or maybe just for a small "donantion". The majority of funds come from the syndication (sale) of federal and state tax credits. These are coupons which are redeemed for a tax liability. Let's say Kraft knows they will have a tax liability. If they simply pay their tax it will cost them 100% of their liability, however they can purchase a tax credit from a syndicator (broker) for say 70 cents on the dollar. Kraft buys the tax credit and they redeem the credit instead of paying a dollar in cash, saving themselves 30 cents on the dollar! Now the Syndicator has to buy food too, so let's say his cut is 20 cents on the dollar, that leaves 50 cents on the dollar for the developer to finance his project. Now, for a developer/sponsor/owner to submit a LIHTC the developer must have control (ownership) of the real estate. Now enters the convention lenders, banks or other conventional sources of funding. Now these lenders have nothing to do with the LIHTC process being approved, they just review the deal on a commercial loan basis and make the loan required for the land and perhaps some incidental costs, like soft costs, in the deal that are disallowed under Section 42 Tax Credit guidelines. So any "conventional" lender that thinks that they do the deal, is a little shy of the big picture. They have very little to do with the entire program. So, there is the real life way it's done, with a sponsor!

Dustin propably has not done a commercial, housing or mixed use development, I don't know nor would I be so rude as to put that question to him, but I have and what the young man has said is on target. His Masters Degree from a respected university deserves some credit as well as respect. Most "investors" have a micro environment inwhich they operate and conduct business, one thing about real estate, you don't need a degree to make money, but it certainly helps and I doubt Dustin will end up as a professional real estate blogger as the pinnacle of his career! Good Luck with that! Bill

Updated: 04:56AM, 01/03/2010

Hey Dustin, I'm not here for the points but I just noticed something, someone has made 77 posts and has received 196 points for their comments and I have 80 posts (3 more because of this thread) with 500! What do think that indicates?


Real Estate Investor · Denver, Colorado


Originally posted by Bill Gulley

I doubt Dustin will end up as a professional real estate blogger as the pinnacle of his career! Good Luck with that! Bill

Bill, It sounds like this is directed at me so I'll respond.

You're right, I've had a great career in real estate and other entrepreneurial endeavors. Being a blogger certainly wouldn't qualify as the "pinnacle" but it does fit in nicely with my personal mission statement: "Have fun, be free and create value."

I usually enjoy sharing my experiences and knowledge with newbies since I have had the benefit of some amazing mentors over the years and feel it's important to "pay it forward." Unfortunately, my experience in sharing knowledge with the BP community hasn't been a positive one. In fact, it's been shockingly hostile.

As a real estate financier who has raised more than $24 million in private money and structured financing for investment property acquisition and development since 1999, I'm quite satisfied with my success in real estate, thanks.

And blogging is fun. See mission statement. :D


Real Estate Investor · Carlsbad, California


Susan, it is obvious that you have what it takes and I also notice some hostility on BP, not sure what brings it on, I guess we humans tend to be emotional beings, for better or worse, sometimes a little sparring gets us enthused and makes us realize who we are deep down inside in spite of it all... just my simple two cents worth, not aimed at anyone; I just happen to enjoy 99% of what I read here and would hate to lose any of the quality contributors, ego and all! Peace! --Dawn


Real Estate Investor · Springfield, Missouri


Hi, well, no it really wasn't, I just used blogger as a sarcastic example, since i have greater expectations for Dustin! I guess we are all bloggers aren't we?

I don't bark too loud on this site but there is another site that I cut less slack on. I guess that's because this bunch, as a whole, seem to be more sophisticated. There are some sharp folks on here.

If I see something that I feel is slightly tilted, not quite right or just off center I correct it since there are so many trying to strat out in real estate and if they get the wrong impression, it may really spell trouble for them. So, yes, with my background and experiences I guess I'm a watchdog. Wait till you hear me on some of the gurus!

I hope you'll stay with us, the bark is worse than the bite, LOL. Good Luck,

Now, Joshua, I appoligize for getting off topic here with your forum post. If you want to catch up with your thoughts, chime back in....Bill


BiggerPockets Founder · Denver, Colorado


Seems like there is a bit of snippy-ness happening here, guys. Lets keep it professional, please.

Small_bplogo20aJoshua Dorkin, BiggerPockets, Inc.
E-Mail: webmaster@biggerpockets.com
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Real Estate Investor · Wheat Ridge, Colorado


It would be good to get this thread back on the topic of getting started in development. But at the risk of keeping it off topic, let me comment on a couple of things.

First, points. Influence comes from more than just posting, and is affected both positively and negatively by what you do here. The details are in the influence and voting post.

Second, on the negativity. As was noted, we have quite a few pretty experienced members here. And lots of people with lots of different approaches to the real estate business. And a bunch of people who are willing to speak up and disagree if they do disagree with something someone else says. Disagreements are fine, and can end up expanding someone's point of view. The only thing we ask is that if you are in disagreement with others, that you focus on the things you disagree about, rather than going after others personally. We will NOT tolerate personal attacks or members who troll.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


Rehabber · Santa Clarita, California


I've never heard the term "sponsor" used when referring to the financing of a development project.

LOL! Sorry, that's a term we use in real life when structuring the financing on development deals. Perhaps you've never participated in a real life development deal.
I have not heard that term either and HAVE real life development experience. I call them investors.
That said, Suan calls them sponsors, I call them investors, you call them money partners - at the end of teh day, they are all one in the same so WHO cares what somebody wants to name them.

In defense of Susan, I have seen many of her posts come under "attack" and can only contribute that to her higher profile in her community and on the net, as well as her public approach. That does not make her wrong or right.

As Jon stated, tossing out attacks is so poinjtless and defeats the whole purpose of this site, watchdog or not, it is not only not tolerated, but unappreciated. I ahve been the target many times and on occasion, have attacked back.
I regret participating in that.

Lets get back on topic here now that everyone has been able to take a chill pill.

Happy Investing :lol:

Small_barnardenterprisesWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
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