I'm a free-market person, but if the autos go under, we'll have millions of more people without work. Do you guys think we need a bailout or maybe some of you have some other ideas?
I'm a free-market person, but if the autos go under, we'll have millions of more people without work. Do you guys think we need a bailout or maybe some of you have some other ideas?
I don't think that there is a simple solution to this.
However, my belief structure tells me that our auto-workers are WAY over-paid compared to the global competition. Continuing this trend will only delay the inevitable collapse. I would rather collapse sooner, than later.
If I were an auto-worker, I would be looking to increase my skill set.
I believe I read something from Pelosi about requiring a rigid set of requirements on the car makers if there was a bailout.
While I'm against a bailout, it is definitely a scary proposition having all of those people lose their jobs. Whole cities will become unemployed. The impact on the US and global economies would be devistating. Maybe it needs to happen . . . I just don't know.
If the people in power were to do a bailout, I'd certainly require a few things, including mandatory increased mileage standards as part of the deal. Additionally, since it is the American people who are financing these companies, we should ABSOLUTELY get a piece of the pie. The public should own a part of the company and be rewarded financially as profits return. Perhaps an Auto Czar should sit on the board of directors as well . . .
While I do not want government controlling any industry, we're already doing it. If we can't stop it from happening, at least we can do so sensibly.
Joshua Dorkin, BiggerPockets, Inc.
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I agree Josh. Millions of lost jobs is a scary thought. Unfortunately, one of the only things that we seem to be worse at than producing cars that people want is providing governmental oversight.
Pelosi's rigid standards is a classic oxymoron. I fear the rigid standards of Fannie and Freddie is what we would get.
Here's an interesting commentary by the NY Times on the Auto bailout - definitely worth a read:
Joshua Dorkin, BiggerPockets, Inc.
E-Mail: webmaster@biggerpockets.com
Telephone: 877-831-4704
Website: http://www.biggerpockets.com
Be sure to check out the BiggerPockets Blog at http://www.BiggerPockets.com/renewsblog/
Good article Josh. My favorite part:
"Toyota strongly believes that a strong market with vigorous competition is in everyone's interest," said Tina Ewald, a Toyota spokeswoman.
They need to kick someone's butt. It may as well be ours.
They have been for many years in the auto industry!
Will Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com
The problem is, who's next?
Right now it seems like everyone who's big enough and can impact the country is saying "oh look, let's just say we suck and can't run a business, the government will help us out"
It's obvious who will follow the motor industry, it would be the airlines (yet again)
And after them? who knows!
I worked in the auto industry for 12 years and feel qualified to discuss this issue.
The politicians, oil companies, unions, and automakers are all bedfellows that have created their own demise. To blame this mess on the wages of the grunt workers on the floor is just too easy of a target.
Overpaid? Maybe, but the companies were making money hand over fist and I feel those wages were justified. How can the company ask for a pay cut from the worker when their executives were getting multi-million dollar bonuses?
Political Issue: There are certain tax breaks and incentives that companies like Toyota and Hyundai have been given that allowed them an advantage over the American companies.
Major Company Issue: The big issues is that other companies do not have the huge legacy costs of retired workers that the Big 3 have.
Major Union Issue: Protecting their existence. Union leaders are not as stupid as many folks think. They know that they are a dinosaur and are fighting to survive. While I believe that unions have their place and are much needed for the protection of the worker, they have become a bloated bureaucracy that creates an environment with no incentive for productivity.
The problem I have with the companies is that if I saw the writing on the wall in 2002, how did they miss it?
I'll tell you.......Greed......that's how.....
Not unlike the real estate business, they experienced their own bubble. The companies were riding high on the cash cow that is the SUV. Instead of planning ahead for the next cycle, they squeezed every dime out of their truck and SUV divisions.
The auto companies got lazy & greedy. The Unions remains inflexible, and the government continues to allow unfair import/export practices.
A bailout? Not really sure money is the real answer. While it would crush me emotionally to see many of my friends and family become a victim of this industry, I feel a bailout might just extend their pain and not solve the problem. Maybe we just need to get this over with.
We ALL need to understand that to enjoy Capitalism in good times, there is a price. That price is to live the brutality of Capitalism in the bad times. Americans always want to have their cake and eat it too, and this is just not possible,
It is very clear to me that these companies need a new business plan, the government needs to create an equal playing field, and the union needs to become more flexible.
Until that happens, throwing money at a sinking ship in order to pay the sailors who are not fixing the holes is a waste.
I consider Ted Turner a tool. However, I saw him the other night on Lou Dobbs and his quote was, "Let them fail!" He went on to say that he and most people saw this coming over a decade ago.
I have a hard time handing over 25 billion dollars to such an inept bunch of characters (executives, middle management and the UAW). I feel like a broken MP3 here, but once again this is a systemic (I am using that word a lot these days) failure. The entire big 3 have to be overhauled. From top to bottom. We should not hand over 25 billion bucks, if the big 3 are going to act as business as usual.
American Airlines course of action would be my preferred action. The government did not bail out AA but let them file bankruptcy and reorganize their opporations under BK protection. The auto maker's as well as the unions are at fault for a lot of their problems. Let them ride as they are and be forced to make a new working game plan. No more CEO million dollar parachutes and bonuses, pay for performance is how it should work. Also, when has the government ever paid back the public for money they have more or less taken from us without our permission, social security is a great example of government borrrowing money without paying it back. I think Boeing in Washington state is next big company that will fail if the company and the unions can not build a better mouse trap to operate in.
YES, YES, YES! We need to bailout the auto industry. Why, because I bought some Ford stock betting that the taxpayers WILL bail Ford out! So, c'mon guys - let's all get on board with the bailout! Give your tax dollars generously so that I can make some money on my stock! It's the right thing to do (for me)!!!
Thanks in advance for your generousity!
Mike
I did that wrong. I agree with Tony. We're on a slippery slope with all these bailouts. Not too long ago, our national debt amounted to $437,000 for every man , woman and child in the US. Some can afford it, but not very many. It seems we're choosing socialistic policies and will have govt involved in all facets. Currently in banks, insurance, autos soon and it will never end. American Express is my guess for the next handout.
While I'm against a bailout, it is definitely a scary proposition having all of those people lose their jobs. Whole cities will become unemployed. The impact on the US and global economies would be devistating. Maybe it needs to happen . . . I just don't know.
You can not give houses away!
I've had that post up in bulk REO for a week not one person even inquired on it other than Chris & that was just to see if I really had a contact.
PS Wells Fargo will take 20% all day!
I'm considering moving me, my wife, and kids there. Sounds like a BLAST!
Will Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com
Mike,
Hope you have a stop loss on that. I see it going down even more.
Will Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com
Too bad it is below $5 or I would be shorting it right now!
Will Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com
Green sure is sexy until oil is under $50. I suspect all those green initiatives will be much less a priority. I have a few friends in the utility and solar business and they fully expect a green backlash.
The auto industry is definitely in need of some sort of reform. Where does this bailout end?!
This is insulting. These guys just don't get it...
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WallStreet/story?id=6285739&page=1
Hope you have a stop loss on that. I see it going down even more.
No, no stop on Ford. I'm not the least bit concerned at this point. I'm only in for $1.62. Stocks in bankruptcy become extremely volatile based on news. It could be $1.29 now; $4.00 an hour later; then back to $1.00 the hour after that. Once it becomes apparent that YOU and I are going to bail out the big 3, it should pop!
Mike