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Forums » Starting Out » What could go wrong?

What could go wrong?

27 posts by 14 users

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Real Estate Investor · Alexandria, Virginia


Say, I purchase a small distressed apartment complex for 500k that is valued at 600k. I renovate the apartment using an equity line (Is this a good idea, in terms of the source of funds?) My goal is to renovate the apartment and get it to 100% occupancy and sell it. What could go wrong with this transaction? What are the hidden costs? Assuming it takes me six months to turn it around, what sort of return would I be looking at? Or what factors would determine my return? What other strategy could I employ? How do I mitigate what could go wrong? Any thoughts welcome.


Real Estate Investor · Philadelphia, Pennsylvania


You need to provide some more information.

Is the property completely vacant or are their tenants.

How many units is the property?

How do you plan on renovating, one unit at time or complete rehab.

The problem I see is that if the is a true apartment complex you will need commerical lending.

To build equity in a commerical apartment complex a lender will not only take into account property condition but also your rent roll. This may be hard to do with your scenario.


Real Estate Investor · Alexandria, Virginia


Thanks @Prashant P.It is a 24 unit apartment, so it is a commercial property. It is vacant so it is a complete rehab. So what would be my funding options?


Real Estate Investor · Philadelphia, Pennsylvania


I would look into a commercial bridge loan. Below is a link to an article written by a fellow BP member. About half way into the article he lays out how to use a bridge loan for a situation just like yours.

http://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/2985/blog_posts/22410-what-the-heck-are-commercial-bridge-loans-and-why-would-you-need-one


Rehabber · Lexington, Kentucky


Here are just a couple things to think about, but to sum it up, a lot can go wrong:

- you said the 24 unit apartment is vacant...why? What happens if even after you make some renovations/repairs it is still not easy to rent out? How long will you be able to hold it?

- $100K is nothing in terms of renovations for a structure of that size...what does it need done to get it in shape to rent? Will you have access to additional funds if the equity line is used up?

- Again, I do not know what the property needs in terms of renovations but a complex of that size could take a long time. Do you know reliable contractors that can get it done on time and on budget?

Basically, problems can happen at several stages.

1) During renovations: you could come across major problems not uncovered during the inspection and use up all your money before all the units are renovated...how then will you finish the project?

2) After renovations are completed: your next step is going to be to get the units rented out...that is a lot of units to get rented. How long do you expect it to take to get to a normal vacancy rate? How will you fund the holding costs during this time?

3) Selling the property: Have you run all the numbers to make sure that once the units are rented it would make sense for an investor to buy at a price right to make you a nice profit.

Overall, this seems rather risky and will need a lot of reserves to cover potential problems and holding time. Hopefully that helps in your analysis.

Small_k_v_transparent-_no_writingJames Vermillion, K&V Investing
E-Mail: James.Vermillion@kandvinvesting.com
Telephone: 859-684-2511
Website: http://www.kandvinvesting.com
Invested in the Bluegrass!


· New York City, New York


I agree with @James Vermillion in that 100K for 24 units comes out to a little over 4K/unit. Since this is a pretty sizable building the issues might need in excess of 100K.

What are the sizes of the units, 24 units equals how many bedrooms?


Real Estate Investor · Alexandria, Virginia


@Prashant P. Thanks I will look further into using a bridge loan.

@James Vermillion Thanks for your questions it really helps my analysis. It seems then a better approach for now given my starting point would be to purchase an already functioning 24 unit apartment complex and upgrade the building the complex. How does the rehab work if it already occupied? Do you have to wait till each occupant vacates or is there some other work around?

@Marc Bodinger Thanks. The best part is that I am just looking at this scenario of action. I think a different approach is required.


Multi-family Investor · Coquitlam, British Columbia


Hi Roselynn;

If you're looking into a building that is already occupied (say 80%), you need to look at a couple of different aspects of the condition of the units considering rehab.

First, are the vacant suites rent ready? If not, what's the estimated rehab cost for those suites? How long will the rehab work take?

Second, do the occupied suites require rehab, or are the tenants happy with their current condition?

I have a 44 unit building that I'm currently renovating that is about 55% occupied now. I have been concentrating on getting the vacant units rehabbed and rented out as fast as financially possible to increase cash-flow. I have not done any rehab on occupied suites unless there were health and safety issues, or obvious issues like damaged drywall or leaky plumbing (water is your worst enemy!).

For tenants wanting major renovations I have given them the option of moving into one of the newly renovated suites, however, they will have to pay the higher rents that those suites now get. If they don't want to pay the higher rent, then I will do minor updates to their existing unit like new paint or carpet if it needs it.

This doesn't take into account other rehab that a building may need like roofs, boilers, windows, hot water tanks, common areas, or parking lots. There are so many items that can suck up your rehab funds quickly.

Good luck, and keep us updated on your progress!

Marc


· U S A F Academy, Colorado


If a properties value is based off of the NOI and CAP rate then if the apartment building is empty weouldnt its value be 0?


Multi-family Investor · Coquitlam, British Columbia


Hi Colby;

You can calculate a building's estimated (ProForma) NOI and CAP rate if you know the purchase price, rehab costs, market rents for the area, and all the expected expenses.

I have had to do this with bank owned buildings where they kicked all the tenants out and boarded up the building rather than pay a receiver to manage the property. As long as the place isn't trashed while it's empty these can be good deals. Inspections and due diligence are extremely important!

Cheers,

Marc


Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, Georgia


Here are the most basic questions you need to answer:

- What is the full-occupancy NOI after repairs?
- How much will rehab cost?
- What is a reasonable guess at your local cap rate?
- How much are you paying for financing and how long will you hold?

Basically, to determine if this is a good deal, the formula is:

Profit = ARV - Purchase Price - Rehab Costs - Fixed Costs

The after repair NOI and cap rate will help you determine ARV, you'll need to tell us the rehab costs and the bulk of your fixed costs will likely be financing and sales costs.

Once you have that information, you'll be able to plug it into the formula, determine your profit, and if you have an idea of how long you will have held the property, you can determine ROI/yield.

Then it's up to you to determine if the deal looks good based on those numbers.

Small_lishproplogoJ Scott, Lish Properties, LLC
E-Mail: j@123flip.com
Telephone: 770-906-6358
Website: http://www.123flip.com
FOLLOW ME ON FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/123FlipRealEstate


· New York City, New York


@Roselynn Lewis how are the 20+ unit buildings performing in Suburban Virginia? Is there a sigh of relief for the moment because the government hasn't slashed defense spending yet?


Real Estate Investor · Southport, Connecticut


You've received some excellent advice here -- just want to underscore what has been implied in several of the comments:

Discard the idea that the property is "valued at 600k" and think about finding a purchase price that will allow you to earn an acceptable profit. Start with a realistic estimate of the property's value after it is repaired and rented: Gross potential income, minues allowance for vacancy and credit loss, minus operating expenses to give you the NOI. Find out what is a conservative cap rate for apartment buildings in your area and apply that to the NOI for your estimate of value after repair

Then make a realistic estimate of what it costs you to get the building to the point where it is re-habbed and at stabilized occupancy. Don't forget to include all of your carrying costs while working on the actual construction (real estate taxes, insurance, electricity, leasing commissions, debt service, etc.). This is the total you have into the deal, not counting the purchase price.

What the property is ultimately worth (per cap rate and NOI), minus your total costs above is the most you could pay for the property just to break even. Of course, breaking even is not what you want to do, so --as in the post before last -- to achieve a desired profit of $X you have to purchase the property at $X less than this break-even amount.

Small_logo_realdataFrank Gallinelli, RealData
Telephone: 800-899-6060
Website: http://www.realdata.com
-- www.realdata.com


Residential Real Estate Broker · Las Vegas, Nevada


Have you thought about leasing while rehabbing? Only rehab the units that are vacant. This will help get them rented once rehab is complete. Also if you can sell the property full leased out and save the rehab money on the occupied units it may increase your bottom line too. It is worth considering.

Small_rothwell_logo_66_pixRobert Adams, Rothwell Gornt Companies
E-Mail: RobertAdams@LVrealestateHELP.com
Telephone: 702-349-9175
Website: http://www.LVrealestateHELP.com


Real Estate Investor · St. Louis, Missouri


Roselynn, this book provides a fantastic overview of the due diligence needed to analyze properties such as your multifamily deal.

"What Every Real Estate Investor Needs to Know about Cash Flow... And 36 Other Key Financial Measures" by Frank Gallinelli.

The details definitely matter for any property. But when one takes on a large project, the details could be the reason it turns out badly. I'd be extra cautious in underwriting the project because it'll likely take a considerable amount of effort and capital to renovate the units and get fully absorbed. But if it's done at the right price, then it could be a great project.

Good luck!


Real Estate Investor · Montesano, Washington


Hey @Roselynn Lewis - I have a 24 Unit apartment complex that was 50% occupied when I bought it. It took me about $50,000 to get it up to snuff - but that was almost just materials since I did a lot of the labor myself (over a two year span.) I dont' think I'd recommend that again! But like the rest said, it can get really really spendy, really really quick.

I worked on one unit at a time, got it rented, then moved to the next. Now that I'm 100% full, I just renovate the units as tenants move in and out.

I think the plan/idea is solid though. I like the idea of "flipping" apartments - because if they are rented, there are minimal holding costs while trying to sell (though, selling can take some time!)

Small_bp-squareBrandon Turner, BiggerPockets
E-Mail: brandon@biggerpockets.com
Website: http://www.BiggerPockets.com
Community Manager & Senior Editor - BiggerPockets.com Follow me on Twitter! @BrandonAtBP


Rehabber


Talk about sweat equity! Awesome story @Brandon Turner!

For me, $500k seems like way to much of an entry price especially for your first deal (I assume it's your first since you're posting in the starting out forum). If you have access to that kind of capital, why don't you start with something much smaller?

Small_fshlogoGlenn Espinosa, Fresh Start Homes, LLC
E-Mail: gxespino@gmail.com
Website: http://FreshStartHomesVA.com
Also blogging on http://WhiteCollarRealEstate.com


Real Estate Investor · Alexandria, Virginia


@Marc Ramsay Thanks for your input.

@J Scott The questions are very useful. Thanks

@Marc Bodinger Yes, there is a huge relief that we are not over the cliff in these parts. However, I guess it will be a repeat in a few months. This transaction is not in the Northern Virginia area as this are demands much higher prices.

@Frank Gallinelli Thanks for making the idea explicit. I will hold this in mind for my investing career. As @Kyle Zaylor suggested, I will get your book. Thanks Kyle

@Robert Adams Thanks for your suggestion. I think this is the approach I will take. It seems to have worked out nicely for @Brandon Turner

@Glenn Espinosa Thanks for your thoughts. I am actually going to be doing a much smaller transaction prior to this one, I am trying to get ahead with my analysis at this point.


Real Estate Investor · St. Louis, Missouri


@Frank Gallinelli I didn't know you were on BP. Your book is a great resource and guide (keep it on my desk)!


Rehabber · Santa Clarita, California


What could go wrong? Everything! With that in mind, you must complete your due diligence first. No idea what makes you think the property is worth $600k right now, but that does not matter.
Just the unit make-ready alone will cost approx. $3k-$5k per door. Then you have exterior, common grounds, parking lots, roof, HVAC/ boiler/ etc., That will bring your repairs well over $100k. Then you have vacancy factor for quite some time. Going from 0% occupancy, to a stabilized occupancy of 90% will take at least 6 months in a good scenario. So you must account for those holding costs as well which include debt service, utilities, taxes, insurance.

Here is the question that needs to be answered before anyone can identify what you should pay for this building. What is the unit mix and what is the reasonable (not best case) gross rent for each of the unit mixes? Once you identify this, we now what the total gross rent can be and then we can work backwards from there.

Small_be_logoWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
http://www.InvestorExperts.com




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