5/25/12 IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: MAJOR BP Update Next Week!

Hide this

Jump to Category View All

Click a category below to view different forum categories.

BiggerPockets

General Info

Rss10 BiggerPockets Q&A, Site Questions, & Announcements

1001 topics, 8196 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:10PM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Exclusive PRO Area

12 topics, 81 posts — Last Post 03/23/12, 03:25PM

Rss10 New Member Introductions

4596 topics, 26506 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 04:49AM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Success Stories

152 topics, 1813 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:22AM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Real Estate Investing Summit

87 topics, 1549 posts — Last Post 05/07/12, 02:13PM

General Real Estate

General Real Estate

Rss10 Buying Real Estate

1318 topics, 10387 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:33PM

Rss10 Selling Real Estate

320 topics, 2544 posts — Last Post 05/08/12, 07:34PM

Rss10 Renters

202 topics, 1618 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:34AM

Rss10 Get Foreclosure Help - Help Stop Foreclosure Forum

221 topics, 1747 posts — Last Post 05/18/12, 08:38PM

Rss10 Home Owner Association (HOA) Issues & Problems Forum

111 topics, 719 posts — Last Post 05/08/12, 06:37AM

Rss10 Do it Yourself

328 topics, 2841 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 09:10AM

Reviews & Feedback

Rss10 Real Estate Deal Analysis and Advice

1625 topics, 12974 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:48PM

Rss10 Real Estate Guru, Book & Course Reviews and Discussions

700 topics, 7128 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 02:16PM

Rss10 Ask About A Real Estate Company

330 topics, 4781 posts — Last Post 05/10/12, 10:31PM

Real Estate Investing

Real Estate Strategies

Rss10 Wholesaling

2588 topics, 19948 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 12:14PM

Rss10 Rehabbing and House Flipping

1622 topics, 14297 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:24PM

Rss10 Real Estate Development

202 topics, 1123 posts — Last Post 05/19/12, 07:40AM

Rss10 Pre-Construction & New Home Construction

90 topics, 600 posts — Last Post 05/05/12, 11:02AM

Rss10 Innovative Strategies

377 topics, 2935 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:00PM

Rss10 Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Discussion

477 topics, 2850 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:54PM

Rss10 Rent to Own a.k.a. Lease Purchase, Lease Options

355 topics, 2229 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:12PM

Rss10 1031 Exchanges

62 topics, 342 posts — Last Post 04/29/12, 08:09PM

Foreclosure Investing

Rss10 General Foreclosure & Pre-Foreclosure Forums

1156 topics, 7084 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 06:30PM

Rss10 HUD, VA, and Tax Sales

216 topics, 1327 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:59PM

Rss10 REOs

948 topics, 7884 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 05:04PM

Rss10 Short Sales

1254 topics, 10440 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 01:58PM

Landlord & Tenant Forums

Rss10 Rental Property Questions & Landlording Issues

3183 topics, 28800 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:21PM

Rss10 Land & Farm Investing

118 topics, 736 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:27PM

Rss10 Mobile Homes & Mobile Home Park Investing

416 topics, 3071 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 05:40PM

Real Estate Dealmaking

Rss10 Make Deals, Find Partners, Mentors & BirdDogs, etc.

3703 topics, 13610 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:07PM

Rss10 Promote Your Real Estate Buyer's List

160 topics, 689 posts — Last Post 05/02/12, 05:54AM

Rss10 Property Wanted

635 topics, 3041 posts — Last Post 05/19/12, 07:44AM

Rss10 Seeking Financing, Money, or Loans

1245 topics, 7437 posts — Last Post 05/21/12, 10:41AM

Rss10 Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Dealmaking

277 topics, 1909 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 06:40PM

Rss10 Bulk REO Discussion and REO Dealmaking

843 topics, 5906 posts — Last Post 02/02/12, 04:20PM

Investor Basics

Rss10 Starting Out

4197 topics, 30898 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 03:17PM

Rss10 Investor Psychology

298 topics, 4486 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 09:01PM

Rss10 General Real Estate Investing

3145 topics, 21840 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:22PM

Rss10 Real Estate Investor Marketing

910 topics, 7482 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:26AM

Commercial Real Estate

Rss10 Commercial Real Estate Investing Forum

743 topics, 3995 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 08:46AM

Rss10 Multi-Family and Apartment Investing

219 topics, 2013 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:11AM

Rss10 Office Investing

3 topics, 36 posts — Last Post 11/15/11, 02:42PM

Rss10 Industrial Property Investing

4 topics, 14 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 06:44AM

Rss10 Retail Property Investing

10 topics, 77 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:15AM

Rss10 CRE Financing and Lending

26 topics, 247 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 05:27AM

Rss10 CRE Syndication and Fundraising

26 topics, 236 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 04:52PM

Rss10 CRE Property Management & Leasing

2 topics, 12 posts — Last Post 05/18/12, 12:34PM

The Business of Real Estate

Real Estate Technology and the Internet

Rss10 Technology, Social Media, Real Estate & The Web

269 topics, 2277 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 07:40AM

Rss10 Real Estate Blogs & Blogging

24 topics, 293 posts — Last Post 05/16/12, 09:29PM

Business Basics

Rss10 Goals, Business Plans & Entities

428 topics, 4273 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 09:08PM

Real Estate Finance & Legal

Financial, Tax, and Legal

Rss10 Tax, Legal Issues, Contracts, Self-Directed IRA

1349 topics, 9465 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 07:35AM

Rss10 Credit & Credit Repair

182 topics, 1484 posts — Last Post 05/22/12, 06:06PM

Rss10 Property Insurance

135 topics, 850 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:36PM

Rss10 Bankruptcy

21 topics, 113 posts — Last Post 05/21/12, 08:25PM

Loans, Mortgages, Credit Lines

Rss10 Private & Conventional Lending Discussion

1346 topics, 8087 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:20PM

Rss10 Creative Real Estate Financing

659 topics, 4285 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 10:58AM

Real Estate Professionals

Real Estate Professionals

Rss10 Real Estate Agents

639 topics, 3562 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 07:47PM

Rss10 Bankers, Lenders, and Mortgage Brokers

355 topics, 1268 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 01:18AM

Rss10 Contractors

121 topics, 666 posts — Last Post 05/08/12, 03:20PM

Local Real Estate

International Real Estate

Local Real Estate

Rss10 Local Real Estate Networking

612 topics, 3434 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 02:08PM

Rss10 Americans & International Real Estate

139 topics, 505 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 02:00PM

Rss10 Foreigners Buying in the USA

56 topics, 288 posts — Last Post 05/02/12, 07:54PM

Rss10 Canadian Real Estate

26 topics, 130 posts — Last Post 03/19/12, 05:58PM

Marketplace

Real Estate Marketplace

Rss10 Mortgages & Lending

392 topics, 1757 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 03:10AM

Rss10 Residential Property, Land, & Farms For Sale

760 topics, 1463 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 06:58PM

Rss10 Real Estate Events & Happenings

118 topics, 505 posts — Last Post 05/07/12, 10:07PM

Rss10 Commercial Properties for Sale or Lease

224 topics, 671 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:42AM

Rss10 Domains & Website Reviews

48 topics, 391 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 07:07AM

Rss10 Classifieds - Promote your Website, Newsletter, or Product

595 topics, 2801 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 06:42PM

Off-Topic

Off Topic

Rss10 Off-Topic

1866 topics, 19997 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:12AM

Rss10 Housing News & Real Estate Market

666 topics, 6615 posts — Last Post 05/09/12, 03:11PM

BiggerPockets Resources

Forums » Buying Real Estate » Detroit?

Detroit? Subscribe to Detroit?

20 posts by 11 users

Signup

Real Estate Investor · Amarillo, Texas


Everytime I read something it seems like Detroit and most of Michigan for that factor has gotten worse and worse.. cheaper and cheaper.. Do you think this town will eventually rebound!? I know no one can say for sure, who knows, but what are your thoughts? Recently read this article http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/11/17/detroit-stadium-or-new-york-studio-the-silverdome-sells-for-58/

That stadium sold for just over 1% of the orignal cost to build? Amazing. Sad. Seems like its almost too far gone to come back to me.
-Scott


Foreclosure Specialist · Lafayette, Louisiana


Being from the South, I cannot predict what will happen in Detroit. But I can make the following statements,

1. As a result of the auto-industry declining, jobs have left the area. And when jobs leave, real estate values take a big hit. Jobs and real estate go hand in hand. They both have to be happy in order for the marriage to work.

2. I don't know if the economic shift there is permanent. But I do know that if new jobs are not created, the investment risk for real estate in Detroit will probably be too high.


· OR


Detroit has an excellent location for manufacturing businesses. But it's my understanding that there are problems with the local government not being friendly to business.

If they would go on an all-out program to attract and nurture business, the city could recover. Transportaion is a biggy for manufacturing, and Detroit can offer it.

But between the uncooperative government, the enormous welfare population, and the spoiled demanding workforce, I sure wouldn't locate a manufacturing plant there.

My opinion: they are going to learn to change, or they are going to die.



I come from Detroit. You not say Detroit weak! Detroit is game to you?!

Seriously though, it's a safe bet there will be a political change in Michigan. Just got back a month ago from a visit with family. People are very angry at the state government especially the governor.

Stay out of Wayne Co. As for the west metro area, Livonia and Canton are good for middle class properties. Novi and Farmington Hills for uppers.

TC


Real Estate Investor · Studio City, California


There are several things going for Detroit and many against it. According to the latest issue of Inc. Magazine, there is a revolution going on in Detroit (Actually Warren but close enough...) with the birth and development of the electric car and its components. This is across various manufacturers and models. Developed properly, it may change the way we look at the private transportation and could be the city's renaissance. However, many things going against it. Obscene property taxes, union stronghold, old and obsolete manufacturing base, decaying infrastructure, terrible weather, corrupt politicians, and the list goes on and on...


Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, Arizona


I think Detroit and Michigan will continue to decline gradually over the next few decades. This is part of a long-term trend away from the Mid-West.

I also think the property values we are seeing today offer some great bargains. Just because the economy is in decline does not mean that property has to become as cheap as it has.

Having said that, I would still not invest in Michigan simply because I do not know enough about the local economy there and do not wish to spend time during Winter looking for opportunities in Michigan. But if there's someone there who wishes to partner with an investor, I might consider it if the values are good enough. :)


Real Estate Investor · Studio City, California


Oh, yea and one more thing I forgot. There are three huge movie studios being built around Pontiac and other part of the metropolitan Detroit. This is part of Michigan Film production tax incentives. I know many productions filmed in Michigan in the past year and there are crews training programs going on as well.


Real Estate Investor · Tacoma, Washington


I'd agree pretty much with Eddie being a native, but the weather is not crazy, winters are extremely cold, but no different from anywhere else in the north. There are four complete seasons and summers are hot.


Real Estate Investor


The Detroit metropolitan area has a population of over 5 million people. The population in the city of Detroit is under 1 million. There are some excellent areas within metro Detroit but every neighboring community is labeled "Detroit" by the national media.

The local government has been completely overhauled, so it will be intersting to see if there's a shift in their practices. If you are skeptical about the actual city of Detroit, I understand, but the suburbs provide a wealth of resources and opportunity.

I prefer investing in Detroit real estate. Peopl still need a place to live and there is a huge demand for nice affordable housing. Where else can you purchase and rehab for 20% ARV? If you have good property management and cash on hand you can make a killing in Detroit.


Real Estate Investor · Studio City, California


Originally posted by Terrence Wright
Where else can you purchase and rehab for 20% ARV?

Birmingham, AL, Jackson MO, for the fraction of the taxes paid in Detroit and better weather... :wink:

Real Estate Investor · West Hartford, Connecticut


Don't know much about Detroit, except that its been in a declining state for quite sometime, and only seems to be getting worse. Useful post for anyone unfamiliar with the area. Thanks.


Rehabber · Grand Blanc, Michigan


I agree with pretty much everything in this post. I live this market everyday. Unfortunately the media paints a worst-case-scenario picture about Detriot and the state in general. Eddie did a great job of pointing out the highlights, and downfalls.

All of the metro area surrounding Detroit is labeled as Detroit, even though it's hardly Detroit. The suburbs are really nice and offer affordable housing. The inner city has been very corrupt for a long time, but things seem to be changing now that the ring leader is gone, Kwame. The rest of the state will slowly follow suit once our Democrat governer is elected out of office.

The work force is highly skilled and manufacturing centric, but the union mentality has tarnished things since there's an entitlement sentiment among the blue collar workers. As more jobs leave the state they're beginning to realize that they ARE replaceable and the mindset is changing, albeit, slowly.

Until more jobs are brought to the state not much will change. But, for jobs to be brought in, the menality and tax structure need to improve. Massive shifts like that take time. But, in the mean time, the state is not 100% desolate and those folks still desire decent housing at an afforable price. There's a happy medium to maintain.


Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, North Carolina


I agree with what has been said, but I still invest in Motown. In and around the area. I grew up there and still have family there. I have been successful with my investing there because I know what I am doing. With that said, there are many areas that will feel a DEEP depression like Detroit in 2010. Foreclosures keep rising and states loosing tons of revenue.

What is the solution? Well if you are an investor and a true one. You look at the opportunities and not the NEGATIVITY. I have been investing for over 8 yrs and all I have heard was not to, but if you do not invest in real estate what do you invest in the stock market, or your 401k so that they can take that from under you.

To me real estate will always be the number investment tool for creating wealth and CASH FLOW. But, it has to be done right. You can pick wherever you feel comfortable, but at the end of the day as long as you are happy and making money then you are on your way.

Detroit for me was a no brainer because prices and quality of the properties that I purchase. When I am in for 10-15k and getting $550-$650 no matter what the nay sayers say I SAY YES, YES AND YES.

SUCCESS BREEDS SUCCESS


Real Estate Investor


Originally posted by Eddie Ziv
Originally posted by Terrence Wright
Where else can you purchase and rehab for 20% ARV?

Birmingham, AL, Jackson MO, for the fraction of the taxes paid in Detroit and better weather... :wink:


Thanks for the specifics Eddie. You are correct though.

Typically, in Detroit, for about 12k you can get a nice 3bed/1 bath house with a full basement on a large lot. Easily rent for $700/month with taxes under $1,800 annually. For brick homes, taxes are higher (avg $2,500 - $3,500) but they will generally command higher rents. With the proper cash flow it will be hard to go wrong.

It also depends on your comfort level with certain regions. If you prefer the south, you can definitely make a strong argument for AL, MS, LA. :cool:


Real Estate Investor · Studio City, California


Originally posted by Douglas Christian
To me real estate will always be the number investment tool for creating wealth and CASH FLOW. But, it has to be done right. You can pick wherever you feel comfortable, but at the end of the day as long as you are happy and making money then you are on your way.

Detroit for me was a no brainer because prices and quality of the properties that I purchase. When I am in for 10-15k and getting $550-$650 no matter what the nay sayers say I SAY YES, YES AND YES.

SUCCESS BREEDS SUCCESS


Same here. They used to say (...and still saying) that the three most important things in buying real estate are: Location, location, and location... Although still true, my three most important things are: CASH FLOW, CASH FLOW AND CASH FLOW!!
Like Christian, I pick properties from $7,500 -$25,000 (For myself or my investors) and rent from $550-$700.
As mentioned before, the only difference is that, in Alabama I only pay the fraction of the taxes paid in Michigan.
For money making opportunities in Cash Flow real estate, please read my article here:
http://www.biggerpockets.com/articles/1508


Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, North Carolina


Well I will share my strategy about the taxes. Before I buy the home I go and speak with the city about reducing the taxes and so far 100% they have agreed and reduced the taxes TREMENDOUSLY. You just have to show them the reasoning behind your request. Vacant and no taxes or occupied and helping out the community and some taxes. It is all about your NEGOTIATING level. That strategy can be used in EVERY CITY across the country.

I usually charge for this information, but because of the GREAT INPUT I will let you have it for free. Remember if you don't ask you will never RECIEVE.

SUCCESS BREEDS SUCCESS


Real Estate Investor · Studio City, California


Oh, I'm sure negotiation is always good anywhere, wether it's a high taxes state /city or not,but that is one thing I just don't have to deal with since the taxes where I buy, are so low .... :wink:


Rehabber · Grand Blanc, Michigan


My experiences are quite the opposite of Douglas'. I attempt to get my property taxes lowered on EVERY property I own. I start out amicably...they turn me down, so I start a case with the State Tax Tribunal. I've been successful with the State Tax Tribunal. But it's a very LOOOONG drawn out process.

Afterall, the city/townships have no vested interest in reducing the property taxes. It's the their sole source of revenue stream.

They can be reduced with a lot of perseverance and documentation (recent comps, etc.), but it's no where near as easy as Douglas claims (at least in my experience).


Real Estate Investor · Studio City, California


Mark, I think that it is really depend on the law in which the assessment goes by. In California, a property can go for years without being assessed because of proposition 13, which disallow arbitrary tax increase, therefore the taxes are determined if and when the property is sold. I l own in my house for 22 years, so my taxes are estimated based on a very old assessment. Consequently, they are much lower than the house down the block that was bought three years ago.
If the low allows the county to raise taxes based on the sale price, I'm sure the same law can and should apply when the sale show reduction of value in relation to the previous sale.


Real Estate Investor · Amarillo, Texas


Any thoughts on the stadium that sold and was referenced above, I guess that like most commercial properties the stadium is only worth the income in brings in, and not bringing any income in kills the value, but seems to be the biggest depreciation I've ever seen,
34 years, then sells for just 1% of orignal cost to build, and that was to build it in the 70's!




Sign up