BiggerPockets

Oh, for those who think we're worthless, hope we don't find funding or decide to take it, because then we'll cost more. Even though the fee on a deal is less than wholesaling, I Bird Dog because I can make more doing less. Who cares who makes what if the property meets your criteria and makes you money.

Hi Jim!

I wanted to respond to your post. Yes, I am a REALTOR & I take offense to your "bashing" of Realtors. Isn't it the same thing as someone saying they dont like "Bird dogs" in which you didn't seem to fond of? On your profile it states you are an investor, should it read "bird dogger"?

I do agree with you about SOME Realtors & SOME bird dogs, I work with 37 investors & about 9 bird dogs to get deals DONE. I work VERY hard for my investors to make sure they are getting a good deal & go way beyond what any other Realtor I know does. I guarentee if you asked any of my investors, they would tell you I work way to hard for the money I do make on every single deal.

The only thing I do not like about SOME bird dogs, are that they send me deals that I can find in the MLS.....to me, not worth any "points" or "fee" when I can find it myself.
Also, if you get paid for what you do, why should a Realtor not get paid to do their job?

To me, the only difference between a "Realtor" & a "Bird Dog" is that Realtors are LICENSED to sell Real Estate & have access to the MLS. Does this mean they find better or worse deals? NO, it just means they went to school, passed their state & federal test, attemd continuing education, supposed to obide by the "code of ethics" & are monitored by different organizarions.

I am not trying to start an arguement here, I just couldn't sit back & not respond. Sorry.

Chrisy

Actually, nothing was meant as an attack. I suppose I got a little riled up by what I thought too was a personal attack. I'm certain that was addressed as well. I really thought I qualified my statements. I was also trying to get a point across through sarcasm and I thought I made clear at the end. I am sorry to the nice realtor. Everyone please read my last sentence about "we are cogs..". Live and let live. I was upset about something that went against that. I was hoping parts were wryly humerous.

Jim,

The answer to your question is NO. No, we don't need bird dogs. I've built my rental property business without ever using a birddog. In fact, I don't even personally know a bird dog. I think they're more urban legend (started by the gurus to sell stuff) than reality.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that there are a few people who have given someone a lead and gotten paid for it. There are probably even a few people who do it with some frequency. However, I would think that anyone that has actually done that would realize that by just putting the same property under contract or getting an option on it, they could wholesale it and make a LOT more money. So, the natural progression for anyone that actually starts as a bird dog is to rapidly move to being a wholesaler.

I'm not putting down bird dogging, I just don't think it exists on any significant scale.

Mike

I suspect there aren't any hard and fast definitions for either "bird dog" or "wholesaler". I would consider a wholesaler someone who actually has a property under contract or actually owns it. They're looking to make 5-10% of the value of the deal as a fee for passing it on.

A bird dog, on the other hand, does not have a contract. They know something about a property, and have passed the info onto an investor to actually do the deal. They're looking to make a few hundred on the deal.

I'm on several wholesaler's mailing lists, and get probably 10 deals a week. I do have a look at them, and once in a while go actually look at the property. If either a wholesaler or a bird dog brought me a deal that worked for me, I would happily pay their fee.

some people can just exist as bird dogs. not everyone has the brains or ambition or drive or money or a whole lot of other things, to invest in real estate. but just about everyone could use a little extra cash.

the postman, trash man, dominos delivery kid, plumber, or any of 1000 others who constantly travel around various neighborhoods, may be able to tip you off to areas and/or houses of interest. after the first time one of those "tips" leads to them suddenly finding an envelope of cash in their hands, well, they'll certainly put extra effort into trying to happen across more properties like that for you.

also some people are bums and just don't work much (college students included) and they kind of "hang around" a lot. so in their travels from one friend's house to another (and these d bags don't have cars so they walk around a lot) they may come across something you can work with and let you know. i spun my wheels a bit at first trying to find deals, but after this gem dawned on me, i talked to a few stoner idiots that i know who fit this category perfectly, and the next thing you know i'm getting text after text, along the lines of "hey bro there's a house up by jimmy's crib with mad busted windows and a dryer sitting out front come check it lataz"

plus these type will generally know the locals and thus it's easy to get them to obtain contact info for the neighbors to the house in question, so you can get in touch with them quickly.

Originally posted by Curt Davis

Michael,

This is just my opinion for the difference between bird dog and wholesale investor.

Bird Dog - No cash or credit, new to investing, looking for a quick buck ( but aren't we all )

Wholesale Investor - Has cash and credit, usually can close on deals, gets the best deals from the bank, has a team of professionals in place.

Again, this is my opinion, some of my info might be incorrect but this is what I have seen from bird dogs.

I think this is way too cut and dry. I have been in this business several years so I'm by no means a newbie. I started out as a wholesaler with cash and credit but with the market the way it is in Florida, I can make more money Bird Dogging. I know other investors in the same situation. This is by choice, not by necessity. I had one bad deal that threw my credit in dumpster a few years back so the banks think I have the plague but I still have accessible cash and quite frankly prefer creative financing and private money to the banks to close on deals. Its simply less hassle and runs my blood pressure up less. But why would I want involve myself so deeply in properties that could drop thousands of dollars in value before I even can close on them and find a buyer?

Originally posted by Jim Wright

Actually, nothing was meant as an attack. I suppose I got a little riled up by what I thought too was a personal attack. I'm certain that was addressed as well. I really thought I qualified my statements. I was also trying to get a point across through sarcasm and I thought I made clear at the end. I am sorry to the nice realtor. Everyone please read my last sentence about "we are cogs..". Live and let live. I was upset about something that went against that. I was hoping parts were wryly humerous.

Thank you Jim for the apology, it is very much appreciated%2

Chrisy,

As a wholesaler, I have both bought and sold properties in less than 4 hours. Some of these were out of state. In the 20th century, we use the internet. We have access to all sorts of information and services. I've posted a property online and had a buyer from another state call an inspector who went over to look at it and within an hour had faxed me a contract on it.

As a bird dogger and wholesaler, there are many reasons why a deal may fall through that are beyond our control. The most prominent today being that the lender pulls the funding at the last minute, If all of your deals have closed, I would say you are either lucky enough to be in a hot market area of the US or are very selective about who you are working with from the starting line. As a bird dogger, I am not going through the process to check credit. That is the lenders responsibility. And even if I did its a waste of time. I've see people with 750 credit scores at the closing table have their funding pulled because the lender got a wild hair up their butt about something.

Here's what I tell my students both bird dogs and wholesalers alike:

Bird dogging is cool if you want to learn your market, get you feet wet, and basically are scared $hitless at the thought of any risk....Bird dogging is also great because it makes for the perfect transition into wholesaling because you can take your relationships and move them from bird dog relationships to wholesaling relationships....

Having said all that....Wholesaling is virtually the exact same thing, except you make A TON more money on every deal.

Wholesaling when done correctly is NO RISK just like bird dogging....Except instead of a $500-$1000 fee your getting $5,000-$100,000 per deal (one of my clients made $150,000 on one wholesale deal).....

Basically the only Financial costs between the two is that with bird dogging you don't need deposit money and with wholesaling you do.....In many cases you don't even need deposit money to wholesale either.

Most of the bird dogs I have trained typically do 1-3 deals before going..."Hey, this sucks...I want to make big money" then they go into wholesaling....

That's why finding people who make big money bird dogging is next to impossible....The moment they get good...they move onto wholesaling....They'd be stupid not to.....

Onto the subject of Realtors...I am a Realtor, and my opinion of many Realtors is LOOOOOOOOW!

Up until recently becoming a Realtor or a Loan officer was the career choice for anyone who lost a job....The thought was "Oh crap, I got laid off from the factory....Why not start selling real estate, I heard of dude that makes lots of money doing that".....

It's no wonder that many Realtors are useless...

Yes they are licensed, yes they are supposed to go by a standard of ethics and I truly believe that most Realtors don't have any bad intentions....

The problem is in what I call "Unconscious Incompetence" meaning they "Don't know, what they don't know"....Sure they don't intend to do any harm....but using a misinformed realtor can be one of the most expensive mistakes you will ever make..And to make things worse...They think they know alot..and they truly believe that they do...Making them even more dangerous...

Thats my two cents.