what would you do?

Question

Hello.

I posted before...newbie landlady.  I have a single family house I'm renting to 3 college students.  The house has a wood burning fireplace with a separate flue from the gas forced hot air furnace. 
My original idea was to convert it to gas, but money is tight and I'd rather not spend 2K for that project.

I asked my insurance rep, and he discouraged me from using the fireplace as it is, given the college student factor.  He said my policy does include coverage for fire damage, and also said to be sure it's inspected and cleaned regularly.   So my insurance doesn't prohibit it, but the rep discouraged use.

My tenants have been asking me if they can use it. 
The previous owners say it works fine.  I would like to offer the fireplace to the tenants, but am curious about the opinions of veteran landlords.

Thanks.

Heather

Account Closed · Answer

Kelly,

Put in any clause you want that is legal in your state.

If the party signing for the legal responsibility is not able to fund the penalty guess who will be next in line?

Assume the tenants have a 10 year old visiting. Their niece. She dies in a fire. Who do you think is going to be the evil landlord that failed to anticipate the situation correctly?

Do you have the money to sue the tenant for your losses? Is it worth the time and hassle vs. just making the fireplaces non-operational?

John Corey

N/A N/A · Answer

John,

Ugh.

Point taken.  ...Yeh, evil, that describes me.

Geez, is there any way around this?

Gas logs?  I know, fire is fire.

Much to consider.

Thanks.

Anybody else have working FPs in a rental?  How do you CYA?

Kelly

Account Closed · Answer

Fireplaces are a great feature when selling to an owner occupant. Not so to a landlord. Close it now but do so in a way that can be reversed if you ever sell.

John Corey

Lynn Z · Answer

The worst thing is they don't know how to call the fire department if they start a fire.  They just get out with their pet and leave the house and go to mom's house.  Hopefully, you installed your smoke detector batteries and have pictures to prove it to the investigators following a fire.  Sound like I've been there. I have ...and it was a new extension cord not a fireplace.

We use chimney sweeps to look at the fireplaces/put in dampers and have written instructions on how to use the damper.  Otherwise, they'll close the damper when they build a fire and open it and let their heat escape up the chimney in the winter.   I'm turning over a house now with a fireplace with all of the above safeguards and they left me the cinders/logs/debris to haul out and clean.  You certainly don't think maids or anyone but an owner will do THAT do you?

They're going to use the fireplace if you say it works.  So say it doesn't work and has been sealed with insulation etc. to prevent heat escape.  We have lots of fireplaces in old apartments.

Brett Fay · Answer

College kids and fireplaces in my opinion is not a good combination.  I have rented to college kids before and they nearly burned the house down without a fireplace

Tom C · Answer

Could always make it a wine cabinet. Have a cheap mirror cut to size and place in the back then place your bottle holders inside.

Heather Finley · Answer

thanks for everyone's input. very helpful. I told the tenants it won't work and is a liability. Hopefully they're respect that.  But some of these comments make me wonder about doing something more.

My original idea to have a gas fireplace _insert_ put in for $2000 is accurate (and on the low side, including labor). 
The insert is different than gas logs, and much more fuel efficient.  The insert can actually serve as a furnace.  Maybe I can find a used one somewhere.

Thanks!

Heather

N/A N/A · Answer

Beachbum,

Hmm...  reversible method.  I will definitely be reselling but not in the short term.  That's a couple of years out.  Have to hang on for a bit to get state & fed tax credits for rehabbing this qualifying historic house.  Folks here would die if they found out what I'm putting into it.  Even I think I'm nuts, but the lot adjoins a property I already own and in it's current condition the vacant, vandalized, dilapidated house needing rehab is affecting not only my property value but the neighborhood.  It's been tied up for years but I got lucky and found a way in.  It's not a losing proposition, that, the subject to appraisal confirmed, but it is a bit more than a sane investor might get involved with.

Reversible method.

Water feature.

Any other creative ideas anyone?

Thanks!

kelly

Richard F. · Answer

It really is best to positively seal them off. Especially for the OP and a "historic" home, the condition of the flue is likely poor at best, with missing mortar etc. An old home, to be safe, will probably need an entire new chimney liner.

If you permanently seal the opening and make a decorative focal point out of it (I HAVE seen a fireplace turned into a water feature!) you nearly eliminate the chance of the tenant deciding to misuse it. You do not just want to leave a "black hole" that tempts budding pyros to use it. You also MAY want to use a reversible method in case you wish to sell later. The other extreme, which is common in many old homes, is to wall over the entire fireplace. Might make a nice surprise for someone in 30 years! Also clearly state in your lease that it is inoperative, and is to remain so, or you could be forced into making it functional!

N/A N/A · Answer

I'm also relatively new to the residential RE game.  This question about fireplaces may become relevant as I head into my first big rehab - older historic home, 4 fireplaces currently blocked which may or may not become functional.  Insurance in place, is it feasible to insert a clause in a Rental Agreement stating that for example, "Tenants agree that they will bear full responsibility for any damage, whether through negligence, deliberate act or accident, occuring from fire in any fireplace the determination of which shall be concluded forensically through municipal/county/assign-your-jurisdiction fire inspection" or something of the sort?  Is that enough CYA?  Or is there opinion that this is laughable, and wouldn't fly under any circumstances?  Thanks for any input.

Kelly