Who Cleans?

Question

We either have our people (my wife & sister-in-law), who are equal owners in the company do the cleaning, or we hire it out.

Our people only do the work on evictions and new apartments.
Incidentally, our cleaning crew gets $80 which they split among themselves however they see fit.

If a legitimate tenant, who is paid up with security deposit in tact, moves out according to the rules of the lease AND we need to have cleaning done - we will hire an outside firm so it can not be argued in the future that we overcharged or some such thing.

Any better ideas?  What do you do?

Mark N.A · Answer

John -- couldn't access the link you posted for Shari's thread.

Michael Rossi · Answer

LLC's are separate legal entities (just like individual people).  Therefore, having one LLC do the work for another is perfectly legal.  The only documentation that I keep is the receipt from the company (LLC) that did the work.   Of course, I have the record of the check paid from one LLC to the other.

Mike

Tony Schober · Answer

This sounds like a great idea. Are you personally doing the work, and are there any legal issues w/ charging for your labor?

What kind of documentation do you keep for the work? Is it just a receipt from one LLC to the other LLC?

Thanks

Brian Greer · Answer

I charge a non-refundable cleaning fee of $200.

Its simple for the tenant and for ME.  Usually, a tenant's definition of "clean" never matches mine.

If they argue that its too much, it now becomes a good screening technique.  :lol:

Works well.

Cheers

Account Closed · Answer

To all,

Shari started a new thread for her question. There are replies there which are from people who have not commented her.

Best if all future replies to Shari's question post under her thread. Like below.

http://forums.biggerpockets.com/viewtopic.php?p=75501#75501

Account Closed · Answer

Shari,

You are a licensed agent in CA. Assuming I got that correct see if the local Realtor board has an attorney that you can consult with. Likely for no fee.

The CA laws tend to be pretty clear. As an agent you are expected to know the laws so a judge will hold you to a higher standard.

If you have photos of the problems you might have room to negotiate a settlement even if you are not on completely firm ground.

If you have no photos or other evidence then you will have a hard time arguing your case.

You might have just paid for an expensive class in property management. Expect that you will need to learn even more so best to read up on the topic as it applies to CA before you run into more tenants like this one. There are some real sharks out there who take advantage of newer landlords. They know what they can do and they watch for when you drop the ball.

BTW - Hang in there. Over the long term being an investor is a great way to go. There just will be some bad days when you get conned or someone is trying to con you. Be very careful with your tenant screening as that stops most problems.

Shari Posey · Answer

The law says the landlord must notify the tenant in writing of their right to an inspection no sooner than 2 weeks before the last day of the tenant's term. During the inspection the landlord will provide a list of items that need to be repaired. If the tenant does not correct those items, the landlord may deduct the cost from the deposit. Additionally, any damages that were not detected during the inspection because of furniture or obstruction or damages caused after the date of inspection may be deducted from the deposit.

It does not say anywhere in the code about what will happen if landlord doesn't do an inspection. My question is...Have I waived all my rights to keeping any deposit money for damages because I neglected to inform her of a pre-move out inspection? 
I've asked a bunch of fellow landlords in my office and none of them have done pre-move out inspections and all of them have kept deposit money. Unfortunately, this particular tenant wants her deposit because of a technicality even though she left the place in a wreck.

Shari Posey · Answer

As first-time landlords in California, when our "nice" tenant moved out, we didn't think to give a pre-move out inspection. We didn't know we were supposed to. On the morning the tenant moved out, the property was left in bad condition. We kept a portion of the deposit and provided an itemized list of repairs we paid for plus the receipts. She cashed the check for the portion of the deposit we returned. Now, 2 months later she wants to sue us for double her deposit plus travel expenses for her to come back the state for the court date because we didn't provide her with a pre-move out inspection allowing her to remedy the damages. (Her ex-husband is an attorney.)

Her cats damaged all the screens, scratched up the carpet which had to be replaced. Her kid put stickers all over the walls and ceiling. She didn't even bother to clean the unit upon leaving it and left quite a bit of personal property behind which we had to hire haulers to remove. Is there any part of the deposit we can keep even though we didn't conduct an inspection prior to her moving out? Or, do we caulk it up to a lesson learned. Please help!! She says she file papers in a few days if we don't return every cent of her deposit.

Christian Malesic · Answer

She has no case if the property is in PA.  Our law does not call for a pre-move inspection.  We have to send a letter in 30 days or less stating why any portion of the sec dep was not returned.  You did that.  According to our law, you do not even need copies of receipts, but we do it anyway to limit the amount of calls from ex-tenants who are complaining.

The double her deposit only comes into play in PA, IF you miss the 30 day window to send out a letter.  You got me on travel fees, but I can not imagine that flying anywhere.

Bottom line: look on the internet for your Landlord / Tennant Law in your state.  If you know how to use Google or comparitive, you should find it in 5 minutes or so.  It is legal wording, but generally understable if you read it a few times.  (If not, post the section here and we will help)