5/25/12 IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: MAJOR BP Update Next Week!

Hide this

Jump to Category View All

Click a category below to view different forum categories.

BiggerPockets

General Info

Rss10 BiggerPockets Q&A, Site Questions, & Announcements

1001 topics, 8196 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:10PM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Exclusive PRO Area

12 topics, 81 posts — Last Post 03/23/12, 03:25PM

Rss10 New Member Introductions

4596 topics, 26506 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 04:49AM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Success Stories

152 topics, 1813 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:22AM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Real Estate Investing Summit

87 topics, 1549 posts — Last Post 05/07/12, 02:13PM

General Real Estate

General Real Estate

Rss10 Buying Real Estate

1318 topics, 10387 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:33PM

Rss10 Selling Real Estate

320 topics, 2544 posts — Last Post 05/08/12, 07:34PM

Rss10 Renters

202 topics, 1618 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:34AM

Rss10 Get Foreclosure Help - Help Stop Foreclosure Forum

221 topics, 1747 posts — Last Post 05/18/12, 08:38PM

Rss10 Home Owner Association (HOA) Issues & Problems Forum

111 topics, 719 posts — Last Post 05/08/12, 06:37AM

Rss10 Do it Yourself

328 topics, 2841 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 09:10AM

Reviews & Feedback

Rss10 Real Estate Deal Analysis and Advice

1625 topics, 12974 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:48PM

Rss10 Real Estate Guru, Book & Course Reviews and Discussions

700 topics, 7128 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 02:16PM

Rss10 Ask About A Real Estate Company

330 topics, 4781 posts — Last Post 05/10/12, 10:31PM

Real Estate Investing

Real Estate Strategies

Rss10 Wholesaling

2588 topics, 19948 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 12:14PM

Rss10 Rehabbing and House Flipping

1622 topics, 14297 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:24PM

Rss10 Real Estate Development

202 topics, 1123 posts — Last Post 05/19/12, 07:40AM

Rss10 Pre-Construction & New Home Construction

90 topics, 600 posts — Last Post 05/05/12, 11:02AM

Rss10 Innovative Strategies

377 topics, 2935 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:00PM

Rss10 Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Discussion

477 topics, 2850 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:54PM

Rss10 Rent to Own a.k.a. Lease Purchase, Lease Options

355 topics, 2229 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:12PM

Rss10 1031 Exchanges

62 topics, 342 posts — Last Post 04/29/12, 08:09PM

Foreclosure Investing

Rss10 General Foreclosure & Pre-Foreclosure Forums

1156 topics, 7084 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 06:30PM

Rss10 HUD, VA, and Tax Sales

216 topics, 1327 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:59PM

Rss10 REOs

948 topics, 7884 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 05:04PM

Rss10 Short Sales

1254 topics, 10440 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 01:58PM

Landlord & Tenant Forums

Rss10 Rental Property Questions & Landlording Issues

3183 topics, 28801 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 04:53PM

Rss10 Land & Farm Investing

118 topics, 736 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:27PM

Rss10 Mobile Homes & Mobile Home Park Investing

416 topics, 3071 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 05:40PM

Real Estate Dealmaking

Rss10 Make Deals, Find Partners, Mentors & BirdDogs, etc.

3703 topics, 13610 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:07PM

Rss10 Promote Your Real Estate Buyer's List

160 topics, 689 posts — Last Post 05/02/12, 05:54AM

Rss10 Property Wanted

635 topics, 3041 posts — Last Post 05/19/12, 07:44AM

Rss10 Seeking Financing, Money, or Loans

1245 topics, 7437 posts — Last Post 05/21/12, 10:41AM

Rss10 Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Dealmaking

277 topics, 1909 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 06:40PM

Rss10 Bulk REO Discussion and REO Dealmaking

843 topics, 5906 posts — Last Post 02/02/12, 04:20PM

Investor Basics

Rss10 Starting Out

4197 topics, 30898 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 03:17PM

Rss10 Investor Psychology

298 topics, 4486 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 09:01PM

Rss10 General Real Estate Investing

3145 topics, 21840 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:22PM

Rss10 Real Estate Investor Marketing

910 topics, 7482 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:26AM

Commercial Real Estate

Rss10 Commercial Real Estate Investing Forum

743 topics, 3995 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 08:46AM

Rss10 Multi-Family and Apartment Investing

219 topics, 2013 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:11AM

Rss10 Office Investing

3 topics, 36 posts — Last Post 11/15/11, 02:42PM

Rss10 Industrial Property Investing

4 topics, 14 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 06:44AM

Rss10 Retail Property Investing

10 topics, 77 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:15AM

Rss10 CRE Financing and Lending

26 topics, 247 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 05:27AM

Rss10 CRE Syndication and Fundraising

26 topics, 236 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 04:52PM

Rss10 CRE Property Management & Leasing

2 topics, 12 posts — Last Post 05/18/12, 12:34PM

The Business of Real Estate

Real Estate Technology and the Internet

Rss10 Technology, Social Media, Real Estate & The Web

269 topics, 2277 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 07:40AM

Rss10 Real Estate Blogs & Blogging

24 topics, 293 posts — Last Post 05/16/12, 09:29PM

Business Basics

Rss10 Goals, Business Plans & Entities

428 topics, 4273 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 09:08PM

Real Estate Finance & Legal

Financial, Tax, and Legal

Rss10 Tax, Legal Issues, Contracts, Self-Directed IRA

1349 topics, 9465 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 07:35AM

Rss10 Credit & Credit Repair

182 topics, 1484 posts — Last Post 05/22/12, 06:06PM

Rss10 Property Insurance

135 topics, 850 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:36PM

Rss10 Bankruptcy

21 topics, 113 posts — Last Post 05/21/12, 08:25PM

Loans, Mortgages, Credit Lines

Rss10 Private & Conventional Lending Discussion

1346 topics, 8087 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:20PM

Rss10 Creative Real Estate Financing

659 topics, 4285 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 10:58AM

Real Estate Professionals

Real Estate Professionals

Rss10 Real Estate Agents

639 topics, 3562 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 07:47PM

Rss10 Bankers, Lenders, and Mortgage Brokers

355 topics, 1268 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 01:18AM

Rss10 Contractors

122 topics, 667 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 04:37PM

Local Real Estate

International Real Estate

Local Real Estate

Rss10 Local Real Estate Networking

612 topics, 3434 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 02:08PM

Rss10 Americans & International Real Estate

139 topics, 505 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 02:00PM

Rss10 Foreigners Buying in the USA

56 topics, 288 posts — Last Post 05/02/12, 07:54PM

Rss10 Canadian Real Estate

26 topics, 130 posts — Last Post 03/19/12, 05:58PM

Marketplace

Real Estate Marketplace

Rss10 Mortgages & Lending

392 topics, 1757 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 03:10AM

Rss10 Residential Property, Land, & Farms For Sale

760 topics, 1463 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 06:58PM

Rss10 Real Estate Events & Happenings

118 topics, 505 posts — Last Post 05/07/12, 10:07PM

Rss10 Commercial Properties for Sale or Lease

224 topics, 671 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:42AM

Rss10 Domains & Website Reviews

48 topics, 391 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 07:07AM

Rss10 Classifieds - Promote your Website, Newsletter, or Product

595 topics, 2801 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 06:42PM

Off-Topic

Off Topic

Rss10 Off-Topic

1866 topics, 19997 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:12AM

Rss10 Housing News & Real Estate Market

666 topics, 6615 posts — Last Post 05/09/12, 03:11PM

BiggerPockets Resources

Securing Vacant Property Subscribe to Securing Vacant Property

24 posts by 13 users

Signup

Real Estate Investor · Charlotte & Fort Mill SC, North Carolina


I need some help on this issue ASAP please!!!

I have a vacant property, newly renovated, which has been broken into a few times in just a couple of weeks. I need recommendations for security measures and things to help deter further attacks on this house.

First, 2 of my exterior doors with new deadbolts were broken. They pryed the door open, breaking the jambs and pinching the deadbolt beyond repair. Then, today, one of my contractors informed me they found drug paraphernalia inside this morning. We leave all inside and outside lights on all night. All doors are secured with deadbolts and latches and jamb reinforcement. Strangely enough, the only things stolen were a kitchen faucet (not yet installed) and an installed floodlight--both of which were very inexpensive, thankfully.

I'm very grateful that, so far, they've not vandalized the new work we've done inside. But that seems inevitable at this point.

I'm considering installing a full security system. It could be worth the expense. Any recommendations? I want to hurry and secure this place as best I can.


Multi-family Investor · Rochester, New York


is this a flip or rental?

I would personally either:
1. Get a big dog to stay at the house
2. Get a shot gun and stay at the house
3. Get one of those alarms from the internet. If someone comes in, it goes off, calls your cell & police and makes a ton of noise.

Why did you buy this house if it is in such a bad location?

Good luck!


Real Estate Investor · Audubon, Pennsylvania


See related discussion link here:
http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/67/topics/48239-how-to-you-secure-a-property-while-rehabbing-

That thread has some links to other threads that are related too.


Real Estate Investor · Charlotte & Fort Mill SC, North Carolina


Thanks Steve--I don't know how I missed that thread in my search.

Mark, I do hope you're kidding about some of this stuff. How am I supposed to keep a dog at the property? It's 90+ degrees here daily--I'd have to build him some shade and go to the house several times a day to give him fresh water. And stay there with a shotgun? Seriously? And it's not an inherently bad neighborhood. It's a bad economy, and even the finest neighborhoods are having troubles like this.

I would, however, be interested in the alarms that can be bought on the internet. Do you know of any particular alarm systems like this?


Real Estate Investor


There was another post a while back with some links to those systems.

I've purchased an ADT system before and included the 2 year contract with the sale of the house. (It ran like $1,200 for 2 years upfront)



I think your first order of business is to invest in security bars on the doors. You will be out of pocket, but your break ins will be significantly reduced, if you have any at all.


· Marietta, Georgia


I've had MANY break ins!!! :( I'll tell you what doesn't help as much as you think is an alarm system. Well it could work but MAKE SURE YOU LOCK YOUR ELECTRIC METER!!! Most of you may already know this but if your power source is not locked they will turn off the breaker then wait for your battery to die to your alarm and enter your home. Last night they just broke in again after replacing the electrical wire that I just replaced. THEY CUT THE STEEL SECURITY BARS TO THE DOOR!!! :( Desperate people have all the time and energy in the world to get money unethically.
They're like water. Sometimes it seems impossible to seal it up. I'm researching steel security doors and windows that can be leased. I think they're expensive, but worth it because nothing else I've done has kept them out. One thing that's weird is I've never had one break a window. They will work on prying a door for hours before they'll break a window. I've also had pretty good luck with boarding the place using the funky screws but ... I hate them.
I hope no one puts a dog through securing a crack home.


· Marietta, Georgia


I've found VPS -Vacant Property Specialist and SOS Security On Site. No $ quotes yet. Waiting for a response.


Residential Landlord · Indianapolis, Indiana


I just contacted REO sentinel over the weekend, they have a product that works off batteries and the cellular network so there are no wires to be cut. It sends you a picture of anyone entering the property. I am planning to get one to try it out and see how they work.


· Orlando, Florida


^ That may be the Lasershield alarm system they are referring to. That's what I've been using. It's been okay. The drawbacks are that the alarm isn't super loud, and if the power goes out in the house for some reason, the alarm will be tripped. Other than that it's been fine.

Other things that you can do are install pin locks and those horizontal brackets on sliding doors (I don't know how effective these are but it's better than nothing). I've had one AC cage installed on the AC condensor but personally I think they are a ripoff, unless it's a really bad neighborhood--then it may be worth it.


Real Estate Investor · Arlington, Texas


I leave a radio on inside the house loud enough it can be heard at the entrances and windows before entering. I know this works to some degree because I have had contractors tell me it gave them pause to enter the house when they heard the radio. Security specialists with the police department recommend it too. I put a cage on the a/c compressor that I have because its brand new. I also ended up fencing across the front yard with a chainlink fence. Surprisingly people like thouse more with a chainlink fence in front. Who woulda thought? If you know any neighbors that are parked on the curb, you might see if they want to use your driveway for a while (only if you know them and feel comfortable wtih them). THis way the house appears to be occupied wtih lights and radio on.

I do not advocate bars. They are really ugly and/or expensive. THey make your your house look like s**t and help the neighborhood look like s**t. You cannot proof a property, just discourage. You can get an alarm at HD that runs off electic or battery (so I have been told). Noise is really the biggest deterent. Noise and light.

I also put 3 inch deck screws and oversized deatbolt recievers just to make it a little tougher to kick the door in.

With the lights, radio, door security, fence and compressor cage, my stratey is to make it just stressful enough to get into my house that the neigbor's house looks more appealing. I drive by about every other evening to check on it when its vacant.

Since you have already been burglarized, I would put up a fake camera with a flashing red light in plain site but out of reach and no trespassing signs and the HD alarm. Here you are giving the impression that A) someone knows whats going on, B) they are not happy with it, and C) they have taken action, so these cameras just might be real. If that doesn't work, you might have to install real video and hope the perps can be identified.


· Orlando, Florida


^ There is also a product called "fake TV" that simulates the flickering lights of a TV.

Another problems with burglar bars is that I've heard they can be a liability issue if you rent the house (if there's a fire).

If I see burglar bars on a lot of the houses in a neighborhood I generally scratch it off my buying list.


Real Estate Investor · Charlotte & Fort Mill SC, North Carolina


What I ended up doing (relative to the house in my original post last year) was--and you won't believe this--leaving the doors unlocked. This actually came at the suggestion of the local police. Against my better judgment, I left the doors unlocked, and--to my amazement--no one broke in anymore.

In the meantime, I've learned to take measures to make my properties less interesting to the dirtbags who cause us so much trouble. I lock access to power (or, better yet, move the breaker panel inside), lock access to the crawlspace, beef up the door jambs, install deadbolts with a longer throw, lay a big stick in the track of sliders (or replace them with traditional doors), leave lights on inside with blinds open so cops can see if anyone is inside (they recommended this), keep water shut off at the street (in case they get in and cut up your plumbing), and install chain-link fence posts around AC units. One of the best things I do is request stepped-up police patrols. I call in the request and then try to personally meet the officers in the area, give them my contact info, let them know what I'm doing and that I would love any advice they can offer. They see I'm doing a nice job on my renovation work--that I'm not a slum lord--and they seem to take an extra interest in helping.

I refuse to install burglar bars--it automatically sends a signal that this neighborhood is dangerous. The bars themselves are dangerous in the event of a fire.

The #1 thing I do is: Do not buy in the hood.


Real Estate Investor · Arlington, Texas


Originally posted by Terri Pour-Rastegar
The #1 thing I do is: Do not buy in the hood.

Sounds like that's exactly where you DO invest, haha!

But seriously, I've seen vacant homes vandalized and AC compressors stolen in just about all types of neighborhoods. Many criminals have cars...


Real Estate Investor · Cincinnati, Ohio


"Leave the doors unlocked."????? What in tarnation is the rationale for this? Anyone else heard this advice?

"Sh**, Joe, the doors unlocked?? What do we do now, what do we do now?" "Don't know, but this is weird and I'm getting the he** out of herrrrrreeeeee!"

Other things:
* Cell-based security system (simplisafe.com is good, and the alarm is loud, I think 86 decibels.). Can be removed and taken from project to project.
* Security system signs at all entrances, and stickers on windows (this one is critical).
* Motion-detecting lighting near access points.
* Fake cameras with blinky lights.
* Lights and radios on inside. Haven't done, but that sounds good.

Telephone: 502-321-6328


Real Estate Investor · Cincinnati, Ohio


Terry -- can you clarify on the use of "chain link fence posts" around your A/C and heat pump units. This is an issue I need to address, and have been looking at caging solutions.

I was hoping for a temporary solution that can be in place while the property is vacant, but could be removed when the tenant has moved in, but maybe that's not realistic.

What are best practices out there for protecting the AC units, assuming I can't move it to the roof. It's the one vulnerable things that's outside the house.

Telephone: 502-321-6328


· Orlando, Florida


Originally posted by David Beard
Terry -- can you clarify on the use of "chain link fence posts" around your A/C and heat pump units. This is an issue I need to address, and have been looking at caging solutions.

I was hoping for a temporary solution that can be in place while the property is vacant, but could be removed when the tenant has moved in, but maybe that's not realistic.

What are best practices out there for protecting the AC units, assuming I can't move it to the roof. It's the one vulnerable things that's outside the house.

I looked into that and I could not find any portable/temporary AC cages, except from one company that had a bad rating with the BBB.

The ones that are permanent and custom welded are anywhere from $300 to $600 for an SFH here in Florida. I found someone from craigslist do it for $300 on one of my houses (I was concerned because someone had sprayed grafitti on the side of the house). He installed the cage but didn't do a great job.


Real Estate Investor · Charlotte & Fort Mill SC, North Carolina


@David--hahahah! I know, it's crazy. But we weren't dealing with thieves. Our problem was crackheads looking for a place to crash for the night. I'm not sure it's a tactic I will try again, because my nerves didn't hold up well the whole time. But I've heard this recommendation from several people, strangely enough.

I would not bother with any kind of temporary cage. AC units have been stolen from homes with people living there. Check out www.ACArmor .net and look at their first (cheapest) level of cages. Now, imagine doing a style like this yourself, but with big galvanized pipe. You bury the legs in concrete. It's permanent, and if you do it right, your repair person can still work on the unit. It's a pretty cheap but solid solution.

Of course, nothing is really theft-proof 100%, but it's a really good deterrant. I also try to make sure there is a motion-sensing flood light pointed right at that area, installed high enough that it can't be tampered with.


Residential Landlord · Indianapolis, Indiana


I am testing out a new system to monitor vacant properties, it is a combination of a few things and not designed specifically for this purpose.

The first component is a vuezone camera system. I bought mine at Amazon.com, it is also available at vuezone.com. Currently $230 for a gateway and 2 indoor motion detection cameras. A weatherproof case for the cameras is available for $32/camera.

Second, a wireless hotspot. I am looking at the truconnect mifi or the datajack mifi. I believe they are both available for about $80.

Third, a wireless bridge. I got a trendnet 640mb for $25.

The vuezone cameras can be placed virtually anywhere, they come with mounts made for attaching on a wall, but you can set them somewhere else or purchase table, window, and ceiling mounts as well. There are no power or connection cables to the cameras, they are completely wireless.

The cameras wirelessly communicate with the vuezone gateway. The gateway is designed to be connected to an internet router by ethernet cable and is not able to wirelessly connect. The problem is that the wifi hotspots usually do not have an ethernet port. That is where the wireless bridge comes in, you plug the gateway into that and the bridge wirelessly connects to the wireless hotspot, which connects wirelessly to cellular networks and internet access.

The cameras can be set to record a clip when motion is detected and send emails out to several addresses to alert you.

I've only had my system up and running for a couple hours at my personal residence to test it out, and I don't have the hotspot yet, so I am running it through my wireless router from the wireless bridge, but everything is working well so far.

The initial investment is about $335. Then there will be monthly costs of about $15 for the vuezone service and the wireless hotspot service. Vuezone has plans to have a lifetime membership of some kind available in the future, but when and how much is not known yet. These costs seem similar to many other security systems, but what I like is that I will be able to check in on my property without going there, just to make sure the furnace and ac are still there and the doors are not kicked in or windows broken. I will not have to investigate false alarms which will be good for me because some of my properties are a couple hours away and I will be able to travel as well.

There are drawbacks to the vuezone system, check out the reviews on amazon, though some of the issues have been fixed if you look at the new information from the vuezone website. I will try to update here what I find out as I continue to uses this system.


Wholesaler · Valley City, Ohio


No great advice, just a funny story. Does anyone remember the flip this house episode with Richard davis trying to catch the copper thief.

he waited outside the house with a gun and drinking beer on camera and started chasing the guy when he showed up? LOL! How would that have looked to a jury if he killed the guy!!

No advice, just my favorite flip this house moment! :mrgreen:

Small_logo_largeRob Gillespie, Rob The House Guy, LLC
E-Mail: rob@robthehouseguy.com
Telephone: 330-800-9043
Website: http://AskTheHouseGuy.com
Rob@RobTheHouseGuy.com 330 800 9043 AskTheHouseGuy.com RobTheHouseGuy.com




Sign up