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Forums » Rental Property Questions & Landlording Issues » Property damage - I lost!

Property damage - I lost! Subscribe to Property damage - I lost!

20 posts by 15 users

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My previous tenants allowed their dog to pee all over the bedroom carpet for 5 years! I deducted the damage from their security deposit to pay for the replacement, it also cost me an entire months worth of rent on top of having to replace the carpet, since I couldn't get a tenant in mid-month. They took me to small claims court over it and won. I had to give them back all of their deposit and pay the court fee! Is it possible to have had a corrupt judge? I brought witnesses and he still awarded her security deposit back to her - every last dime and don't understand why I lost the case.


Duplex Investor · Arvada, Colorado


I am going through something similar but we are not that far into it yet. It disturbs me that the tenants won. Did you have a lease that was clear about damages?


Real Estate Investor


Most areas depreciate carpet. Your judge may have thought the age of the carpet negated the damage. Or there was a problem with the way you withheld, or notified the tenant of the withholding. Did you get a written ruling? What does it say?


Real Estate Investor · Springfield, Missouri


MAny judges see damages as usual and customary as well as expected business expenses, natural wear and tear is subjective, but normal wear was probably considered with haveing a dog on premises, after all, 5 years and a dog there with your knowledge. Marc is right on here, what would you expect? That's what rents pay for and deposits are to cover expenses created beyond what should be expected.....


Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, North Carolina


did you know there was a dog living there? did you alllow it? did you collect a pet deposit or fee in addition to security deposit? what condition was the carpet in before your tenants moved in? did you have pics of this from before they moved in?


Real Estate Investor · Wheat Ridge, Colorado


Did you try to deduct carpet replacement for just one room (you mention the bedroom) or for the entire house? Did you try to deduct the month of "lost rent"? Did you comply with the law as far as timelines and information provided about the deposit? Very difficult to say what's going on without more information.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


Real Estate Investor · Dallas, Texas


What city and state? Some jurisdictions are more or less landlord friendly.

Jon K., VentureNet
E-Mail: jklaus@vnetinc.com
Telephone: 214-929-6545
Website: http://www.caddostar.com
Traveling to Dallas? Check out our ranch cabin getaway. www.caddostar.com


Real Estate Investor · North of Dallas, Texas


It could have been worse.

You said the tenant was there 5 years, that's 5 years with no vacancies.

Not sure I agree with the ruling, but I'd be happy with only 1 months lost rent and only having to replace bedroom carpet after 5 years!

I had a family member in a rental of mine, and it cost me a month and almost $5K to get it back on the market - and the family member was only in the house 1 1/2 years.

LOL - Ask me about renting to family....


Landlord · Seattle, Washington


I would certainly review your lease. A lease should be reviewed every year laws change and a landlord learns more as well.

Kevin, makes a good point. 5 years is a long time that you have not had to worry about the property and you collected rent. Getting it rented again in one month is good as well.

With out knowing a little more about what you charged the tenant, if the proper notices were sent timely or any other details about the initial checklist and the followup review when the tenants moved out.


Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, Georgia


Originally posted by Nancy Molinari
...and don't understand why I lost the case.

Were you not paying attention to the judge? What did he say when he ruled in favor of the plaintiff? I'm sure he gave a rationale for why he awarded them their security deposit back -- what was it?

J Scott, Lish Properties, LLC
Telephone: 770-906-6358
Website: http://www.123flip.com
http://www.123flip.com


Real Estate Investor · Wheat Ridge, Colorado


Jason's correct that you should have been given some explanation. I can think of a number of reasons:

1) The tenant gave adequate notice and left in accordance with their lease terms. You tried to deduct the next month's rent from their deposit. As long as they left in accordance with the lease, the time it takes you to do your make ready is not their problem. A judge would take a very dim view of trying to charge rent after they left.

2) You have a time line for returning the deposit or providing an accounting? For me, that's 30 days after they turn over the unit. If I don't provide a written accounting and their money (if any), then I MUST return the entire deposit. Actually, the tenant is allowed to require triple damages, and I could be required to pay them triple their deposit.

3) You tried to charge them to replace the entire carpet. Maybe the judge felt like after five years the carpet was "normal wear and tear". Now, I would personally disagree. If the carpet was in good condition and was clean before they moved in, they should have returned it in the same condition. But if you couldn't document when the carpet was installed or when you last cleaned it, the judge may have assumed the carpet was 20 years old and you were just trying to make the tenants pay for a replacement that was due anyway.

Impossible for any of us to say, given what you wrote. But there are any number of reasons why the tenant may have been due the money.

Some things, like periodic replacement of carpets and lost rent due to make ready time, are just part of this business.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


Real Estate Investor · North Carolina


I have, in the past, called the Magistrate and politely asked what I did wrong after losing.

It's my feeling that Magistrates, if in any doubt, will err on the side of the 'little guy'; and that Magistrates rule their kingdoms any way they damn please.



Thank you to all of you who replied with great feedback and it did help me understand why the judge might have ruled the way he did even though I completely disagree with the decision. He didn't give any explanation during the hearing, only said he would send his decision (he was very arrogant), which when I received it was that there was insufficient evidence that they had caused damage. Also, the tenant gave supposed written proof that it didn't smell when they moved out, which I'm sure was from someone they know. We even did a walk through on move-out but it was only afterl I closed the windows during some rainy weather after they moved out that the smell became apparent. The judge never asked me if I had seen their evidence which they never brought up before the trial which they were supposed to have done, but he admitted it as evidence anyway. When it came to my evidence which they refused to look at and included a section of the carpeting I brought to trial, along with pictures, he refused to take the evidence since they refused to review my evidence so it couldn't be admitted. I have since filed a complaint against the magistrate because he accepted their evidence and not mine, which is currently under investigation by the court system (CT), but it doesn't change the outcome of the trial so I will have to pay. The carpet was older, but not worn to the point it needed to be replaced, only the amonia smell from the urine was so bad I couldn't re-rent the way it was. I even had a professional carpet cleaner come in and clean all rooms including having the room the dog was in deoderized, but it didn't help. I did give them a timely (within 30 days)itemized list of what was deducted for damages but I guess dog urine is normal wear and tear?! I have my own dog and couldn't stand if my dog urinated and I didn't have someone come in the next day to clean the carpet. I charged a pet fee (not a deposit)to let them have the dog in the house and it wasn't for the purpose of damages, only to allow the dog which the funny part as I advertised "no pets" but they begged and pleaded to allow me to let them bring their dog and I caved in. I'll never do that again. Hope the tenants I have now are better than the last! Any more advise any of you have with this information is also appreciated - just don't tell me the magistrate can come after me for filing a complaint about him, then I'll really be thinking about whether I should be standing up for my rights and hope I don't get him again if I have problems with the tenants I have now....thanks everyone.


Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, North Carolina


you could always appeal and get a fairer trial with a judge, but it'll cost you....only you can decide if it's worth it, or if it's a cost of the business


Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, North Carolina


you could always appeal and get a fairer trial with a judge, but it'll cost you....only you can decide if it's worth it, or if it's a cost of the business



Bryan, here in CT we can't appeal small claims decisions. If I had known how this works, I would have opted for a higher cout instead where you can appeal. So I don't believe I can bring it to a higher court since there was a ruling in small claims.



Originally posted by Nancy Molinari
Bryan, here in CT we can't appeal small claims decisions. If I had known how this works, I would have opted for a higher cout instead where you can appeal. So I don't believe I can bring it to a higher court since there was a ruling in small claims.

How much did you sue for? Did you sue for the entire carpet replacement? Did you sue for rent after the teant's lease had expired? It's clear you weren't entitled to those things and if you asked for them the judge probably didn't look to fond on you.........and may have just dismissed you case because he thought you were trying to get one over.


Real Estate Investor · Austin, Texas


How about moving to a state without leftist laws? Or you could just buy property there as a middle ground.

Did the ruling mention something about your pet fee compensating you for the damage?

Small_bullseye_capital_logoBryan Hancock, Bullseye Capital Real Property Opportunity Fund
E-Mail: b.hancock@bullseyecap.com
Telephone: 1-800-577-0401
Website: http://www.bullseyecapfund.com
I help busy people profit from real estate


Real Estate Investor · Jackson, Mississippi


Here in my area, Evictions go through justice court with no attorney needed, or through circuit court with an attorney. Most landlords go the circuit court route due to the comical nature of justice court. I have been to several evictions in Justice court, the rulings are comical. Just no rhyme or reason to most verdicts. You have to learn the system, then learn to "use" the system.


Real Estate Investor · Huntington, West Virginia


This is exactly why I don't rent to pet owners, you probably should have expected this and calculated their deposit based on what it was to replace the carpet... when they were "begging" you to let them have their dog, politely let them know that it was a big possibility that the carpet will need to be replaced when they vacated the unit.

Pets can do a lot of damage, especially to careless tenants. You also have to be careful, tenants will lie and tell you they do not have pets when they do. Upon discovering pets are living on my property, I file for an immediate eviction based on lease violation. In my younger years I put up with it, but not now. There are also many good legal reasons not to allow pets; i.e if a tenant's pet bit someone on your property, you may be liable. Just not worth it, I like to sleep at night. I have my real estate attorney on speed dial, luckily she is a good friend or I'd have a large legal bill.




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