BiggerPockets

So heres the problem. I would like to see if anyone else has encountered this before and what you would do.

I have a tenant, section 8 pays rent but does not pay utilities. The gas is in the tenants name but i recently recevied a shutof notice. I called the tenant early last week about this at which time she said that she is trying to get emergency assitance and she would follow up with me. It seems like she is taking her time. If she doesnt get it turned on I have thought about paying it myself and setting her up on a payment plan. Not sure what else to do because if the pipes freeze she will not be able to pay for any of the damages. So, has anyone had to deal with this? Any strategy on how to correct fix the situation. SHe has otherwise been a very good tenant so i dont want to start threatening her with eviction. Thanks everyone.

Of course.

Up down duplex. The tenant I was referring to is in the lower unit. It was built in 1920s or 30s but has been updated quite a bit since then. I believe it was originally a convenience store. Almost everything is brand new in the last ten years. There is quite a bit of insulation, new windows and storm doors. It is a pretty tight house. Basement is unfinished, I use it for storage. The pipes run from the meter on the outside of the house into the basement where the furnace for the lower unit is. The upper unit has the furnace in the unit. The water pipes start in the basement and move up into the unit at various locations. I am not sure if any of the water pipes run through the walls. She is also responsible for the electricity and water bills. I am not sure if she is paying the electricity but I do see the lights on when I am over there for other things. The water is paid by me and then billed back to the tenants.

The duplex is in Minneapolis. We often get negative temperatures through the winter.

Thanks.

Ok, if the house is as tight as you say it is, the furnace upstairs will take care of the pipes up there and the top most part of the first floor. Make sure anything you have stored in the basement can handle getting wet. Get oil filled radiant electric heaters (most fire safe) and put them in the basement plugged into her electrical service so she is paying for this. The heat from these will rise up and keep the pipes warm in a less than ideal way, but better than nothing. If the water pipes are running through inside walls, you may be ok with this. If they are running on an outside will you will want more heat touching those pipes. Consider perhaps heat tape on those pipes.

She will probably want to start using electric heat in the first floor so that will contribute to warming the pipes in there. Just make sure she keeps her hands off the heaters you have set up in the basement.

This is what we do in the snow belt of Indiana when we have a vacant property in winter with water in it. It is less than ideal for sure but it generally suffices.

How much is owed in order to get the gas turned back on? I like Marc's idea of pushing her to go and see if she'll be able to get the assistance.(like before Friday)

The only problem with the payment plan idea is that the gas company shut the gas off because she WASN'T making the payments. So depending on the amount owed you'll have to decide if it's worth you taking the chance.

CJ - I do not know how much is owed because the gas company will not tell me since the account is in her name.

I also do not want to get her on a payment plan for the reasons everyone listed here. If we do this I have to plan on paying the heat for the reminder of the lease and then try to collect it from her when I can. I forsee lots of headaches here.

I like the heater plan... If we can find one with a thermostat. I would not want a couple of these running all night without anyone there. Not the ideal situation but it will at least protect the house. Plus this would only cost a couple hundred dollars for some nice heaters. This is compared to paying the tenants bill which could start off at a couple hundred but then creates a moral hazard which could turn into many more dollars and headaches.

motiv8td - everything is seperate except for the water. So, the tenants put the gas and electricity in their names. I keep the water in the name of the LLC and then invoice the tenants for their portion.

What happened to MikeOH?

Keep an eye on the place if the gas is off. Do a walk through for sure. We've a couple different tenants attempt to heat their homes using the oven. Kerosene heaters are also terrible ideas that tenants occasionally like to use.

ONE thing you should be careful of. Her using several electric heaters all plugged into one circuit or even on a too small of fusebox and overloading it causing a fire or failure.

Electric takes alot of juice to replace that gas,,,most, some,many places arent set up for that much consumption.

Other real danger is she is going to use every thing that will make her warm,,,safe or not,. And care less how safe it is. Direct contact with piles of clothes,,,too close to curtains or other combustables,,,garbage and the house can get hotter than she thought. Like burned to the ground.

Happened here to a very elderly couple,,,she came within seconds of losing her life. She was more dead than alive when the fireman got her carried out. Heater ignited a curtain.

Another case, guy took gas burner out of an old converted octupus furnace made for wood and coal. He was heating with sawed up pallets. Ruined the whole thing as the chamber cracked and carbon monoxided the whole house. Then he got thrown in jail without letting the landlord know,,,in middle of winter. You can guess what happened to his pallet furnace heated house,,,he didnt care. He was warm and had three hots and a cot.

If it were me,,,NO elec heaters, if she cant get immediate assistance and keep the regular gas service on,,,she moves,,,yesterday!!! Payment plan to YOU,,,,no way. If you do can I apply for financial assistance from you also???I am a little short this month. No? didnt think so,,,dont be the local charity!!!!

I think the heater plan is the best option here (besides her either getting the assistance or paying the bill) as the heaters will do exactly what you need them to.

I don't think you should have any elctrical fire issuses or anything like that as long as you use common sense in setting them up, and will keep your property from the pipes freezing. I think the bigger issue is going to be whether or not she ends up getting the gas turned back on or just blows it off.

Update:

We do have a cold-weather rule here in MN. The tenant called Gas Company (finally) and received a 10 day extentsion on the shutoff. This ten days was so that she could send in proof of low-income (pay stub) or a letter explaining she has no income. I had my doubts as to whether she would actually be able to accomplish this menial task so I went out and purchased the best heater i could from Home Depot and put it in the basement. Thankfully, her emergency assistance went through so she is now on another subsidy. I guess I am paying either way, but at least you guys and your taxes can help me out on this.

NY has a program called HEP or HIP which assists low income people with paying for fuel costs. The state either gives it to them free or heavily subsidizes it. I would check to see if your city or state has anything similar. Your local section 8 or social services office should be able to provide you with the info.

Chris