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Forums » Rental Property Questions & Landlording Issues » setting up a company? llc?

setting up a company? llc? Subscribe to setting up a company? llc?

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Hi

I bought a property in my own name to quick flip, but im stuck with it after the local market dropped so i cant sell, so im going to rent it out my questions are:

What do i need to know as an overseas landlord?, Do i need to set up a company or an llc?

Thanks

Dave


Real Estate Consultant · St Louis, Missouri


It is always a good idea to run all real estate transactions either under a corporation or an LLC. Never personal. Also on more expensive properties (or commercial) I form a different LLC for each property - that way you isolate any issues and liabilities to that one property and it will not affect your whole real estate business, in case you run into lawsuits pertaining to that property.
LLC are easier to form and manage. Corporations require more paperwork, annual registration report and they are more expensive to form.
I assume your property is in the US and you are running the landlord business from overseas, but through US business model and tax reporting.



Yes my property is in the u.s and i live in england, so if i was to rent the property now as it is i could be at risk of personal liability?, so how much does it cost to transfer my property to an llc and set it all up?


Real Estate Investor · Burke, Virginia


Dave,
I just wish to say is yes absolutely setup your LLC and I suggest you also setup a land trust to asset protect the property and the deed/ title while you are away.

Just so you are aware in a beneficiary directed land trust the trustee via a notarized letter of direction would follow the instructions provided by you the beneficiary so from England you can direct the trustee easily and safely.

They also can collect rents or lease payment as a 503 (c)corporation.
LT and LLC's as I have stated on this board work very well hand in hand.
Laura had some very good advice on your LLC structuring.
Personally I would not deed title to real property to and LLC but rather I would assign my LLC or C-corp a % of beneficial interest in the LT.

This is really a basic asset protection strategy so you protect the LLC members and the LT protects the corpus. I do not believe in commingling assets plus you avoid a DOS which I know is a not going to happen but you know doing it this way it never can since you are following federal law specifically USC 1701 j d (3) or Garn St Germain Act of 1982 under section 8a.

No only do you get anonymity in your real estate holdings you get a degree of asset protection not ironclad yet nothing really is..
Most investors do not understand the distinct advantages of using land trusts in their investing there are actually 30 realized benefits if not more.

What you should also consider if you wish to leverage this property for the higher lease payment is you can do a tax lease trust and have the beneficiary take the active tax write-off following IRC 163 h 4 (d) and no tax advice intended and that is a tax lease trust since you probably wish somebody to take care of the property and a N-N-N lease would work very well in that case. Just a thought...

You have more strategies and ways to maximize your investment this way.

I work with LT as a principal investor but I see a LT in your scenario a very prudent move.

If you have any questions you can email me if you like.
Good luck.....


Real Estate Investor · Sunnyvale, California


Gulp, that's a lot of paperwork to handle a single property.
I just have an LLC + Landlord insurance with a liability coverage for asset protection.

You don't strictly need to set up a company or an LLC to rent out your property. But you should consider asset protection in case your tenant slips and falls. Many small landlords seem to do just fine with no LLC and a nice cheap personal umbrella policy that provides coverage for up to a couple of $$million for pretty small premiums.

Do you have a local mangement company or trusty person to take care of things ? That would impact the overall headache-factor by ensuring you get good tenants who won't trash the place.


Real Estate Investor · Burke, Virginia


Matt,
Yes there is more paperwork in getting setup but I believe it is worth it to avoid liability.

It really is very easy to do I just gave David some ideas in how we use LT to gain more advantages for all parties thus creative investing.

Typically when these entities are setup they are in autopilot and all you do is get your check from the trustee each month..
Insurance is something else entirely and yes that goes without saying a good policy is needed.

You need to protect the title from the lawsuit that hits you so you need good insurance and a LT IMHO to stop any charging order or threats to the property.
It is also nice to not have your name on the county records so you are off the radar screen.

I just went into detail to give examples of how you can remotely administer a property via your designated trustee very simple to sign off on one letter..??


Property Manager


Colin,

You can do the S Corp or LLC filing yourself by using the services of one of the many online legal firms specializing in this. It will save you money vs hiring a lawyer to do it for you.


Real Estate Investor · Springfield, Missouri


Most investors I know of are paranoid about landlord liability. Ask them how many times they have been sued and most will say never.

Listen to what Matt said, get insurance. Speak to an attorney where you are. Not many tenants I ever bumped into for a modest dwelling had the money, time or legal knowledge to seek a suit against someone overseas...I mean really!

Make sure you have a decent PM, have recourse if they mess up and have insurance and with one property, I wouldn't consider all the fluff. Be realistic. Good luck



Thanks for the replies.

Wow thats alot to take in, an llc and insurence is what im most inclined to do for know, how much does it cost to set up an llc?

So a land trust is to protect the title from a liable case? i dont understand what this means, could you please explain? we dont use them for rentals in the uk, all we do is get landlords insurence and that covers everything.

So a beneficery would collect rents? is this the management company?, i dont have an agent lined up, can anyone recommend one in inkster MI?

Thanks everyone


Real Estate Investor · Burke, Virginia


David,
Actually the trustee would collect the lease payment and these trust only work in the US I don not how the UK structures their land trusts..

A land trust protects the title/deed due to the holds both the legal and equitable title to the property thus they own and you now are assigned a beneficial interest so you effectively control but own nothing.
That means a creditor can not look up your name on property you own and lien the title if they can it can prove to be very difficult to sell w/o settling the debt first and provide a clean chain of title.
You also have a degree of asset protection as well of the beneficiaries in the trust and I can on and on.

This is why a beneficiary in your property can NOT claim equitable interest due to the trustee has equitable title.
We take full advantage of US tax laws in how the trusts are setup..
We follow federal law..
Ralph: I appreciate your input on LLC's and aware of LLC setups and would probably do that unless it was an involved setup..thanks for the advice though.

The trustee is the management and collection company yet your LLC can also enforce it as well in being a beneficiary..
If you forward me your email I will send you the 30 benefits of using them in your investing.. a good read and no soliciting just wish to provide helpful information.

Do what is best for you I just wish to illustrate the advantages in using land trusts to control property..


Real Estate Investor · Anaheim, California


Hey Colin, would you mind explaining how land trusts provide anything more than anonymity? It was my understanding the only way a LT provides asset protection is when you have an LLC be the beneficiary. Please email me a copy of 30 benefits of using land trusts.


Real Estate Investor · Northeast TN, Tennessee


Originally posted by Colin Bochicchio

This is really a basic asset protection strategy so you protect the LLC members and the LT protects the corpus.

No only do you get anonymity in your real estate holdings you get a degree of asset protection not ironclad yet nothing really is..
Most investors do not understand the distinct advantages of using land trusts in their investing there are actually 30 realized benefits if not more.


Sorry Colin, but in this case I have to disagree. David said that he bought the property in his own name. His anonymity is pretty much shot from the get-go. He would have to transfer the property to the trust/trustee, and that transfer would be on record. For someone just checking property ownership a land trust may provide him some semblance of privacy. However, if someone chooses to do a title search, it won't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was done and who did it.

As for asset protection, in reality, land trusts provide almost none. Land trusts do not enjoy the liability protections that corporations or limited liability companies may enjoy. Beneficiaries are held liable, which is why those who use land trusts usually name LLC's or corporations as the beneficiary.

Originally posted by David France
an llc and insurence is what im most inclined to do for know

I think that's a great idea. Land trusts do have their benefits, but I don't think it will accomplish what you are attempting. The LLC and insurance will do just fine. You will also want to look at getting a good property manager. Here's a place to start: http://www.narpm.org/search/search-managers.htm



Great thanks Bill, im currently looking for an agent


Real Estate Investor · SE Michigan, Michigan


Originally posted by David France
Great thanks Bill, im currently looking for an agent

David
I have a local PM company (near your property) that has an in house attorney that I've used to set up both of my LLC's. email me and I will send you the names.
Bill




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