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Forums » Real Estate Deal Analysis and Advice » 100% financing deal

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· VIRGINIA BEACH, Virginia


I have a builder offering me a rehab for $119,900. He will take a 2nd for $24,000 that will serve as my down payment. After a couple of on time payments, he will then forgive the 2nd mortgage leaving me with a purchase price of $95,900 which will also be my loan purchase amount. The Zestimate is $154,000 but we are assuming an appraisal of $130,000. The neighbor's house sold in 2008 for $142,000 with same characteristics-bedrooms,baths etc. This will be rehabbed so it could be worth more. Next door is an empty lot that same builder wants to put up a bigger house. This area is an inner city but has been experiencing a lot of investments by the city. They have torn down neighborhoods and built real nice new ones. Its is also a couple blocks away from a minority college. A monorail is being built nearby. He will even mark it up a few thousand to pay closing cost so my out of pocket will be just a few hundred bucks if any. His wife is a Real estate agent that will property manage it if I desire. I plan on renting. Its a 3bed-1bath that supposedly will rent for atleast $1100-$1200. Positve cash flow of $200-$300 based upon that rental amount. Good deal for first time investor with no money? I only have a couple thousand to my name so this seems to be the only way I can get in a property.


Real Estate Investor · Ohio


This is a big loser from a rental standpoint. It will bleed cash.

Here is the way I see this deal, even assuming that the rent will be the higher $1,200.

Gross rents: $1,200
Operating Expenses: $600
NOI: $600

Debt ($95,900, 30 yr, 7%): $638

Cash flow: $38 LOSS! OUCH!

I'd pass.

Mike


· VIRGINIA BEACH, Virginia


Where are you getting operating expenses of $600? It's newly rehabbed so I don't expect a lot of operational expense. Looks like I'm going to check your book out either way. Keep up the good work.


BiggerPockets Founder · Denver, Colorado


Darin -
What do you expect to be included in those operating expenses?

Small_bplogo20aJoshua Dorkin, BiggerPockets, Inc.
E-Mail: webmaster@biggerpockets.com
Telephone: 877-831-4704
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Be sure to check out the BiggerPockets Blog at http://www.BiggerPockets.com/renewsblog/


· VIRGINIA BEACH, Virginia


I'm the rookie here lol, you tell me!


Real Estate Investor · Wheat Ridge, Colorado


Taxes, insurance, property management, maintenance (which is mostly caused by the tenants, not the property), vacancies, legal expenses, make ready (cleaning up between tenants), evictions, utilities (at least when empty), etc., etc., etc.

Read in the rental property forum. There are a couple of sticky threads that discuss expenses at length.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


BiggerPockets Founder · Denver, Colorado


You beat me to it, Jon!

Most rookies don't take all OEs into consideration, Darin. It isn't a big deal. It is important to factor all of that in to properly analyze whether a deal is going to cash flow or not.

Small_bplogo20aJoshua Dorkin, BiggerPockets, Inc.
E-Mail: webmaster@biggerpockets.com
Telephone: 877-831-4704
Website: http://www.biggerpockets.com
Be sure to check out the BiggerPockets Blog at http://www.BiggerPockets.com/renewsblog/


· VIRGINIA BEACH, Virginia


I figured rent at $1100*12months=$13200*.65OE=$8580/$95900cost= .089 cap rate. I heard 10and above was excellant so I was thinking I was in the ball park. Would this work for a 1-2 yr rent to own? Looks like I could walk away with a little equity. $140,000-$95,900 - expenses= (something positve hopefully) Thanks for the inputs!


Real Estate Investor · Wheat Ridge, Colorado


You're assuming operating expenses will be only 35% of the rent. That's too low. Use Mike's analysis.

Rent to own is a glorified rental. You might get a tad more than market rent.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


Real Estate Investor · Ohio


Darin,

Throughout the United States, operating expenses run 45% to 50% of the gross rents (I would strongly suggest using 50%). Having operating expenses of 35% for any length of time is virtually impossible.

I would strongly suggest that you do a lot of serious studying before you buy anything. Rental properties are extremely unforgiving and the vast majority of new investors fail in a short period of time.

Good Luck,

Mike


· VIRGINIA BEACH, Virginia


Thanks for the reply, Ironically I was reading your blog the same time you were replying to mine. I have been studying for a while and these forums are just a small part of it but the most helpful. My problem is not having the cash to buy a property. 3yrs of court with my ex and the blood thirsty lawyers have whiped me clean. Hard money is too expensive for my market. So to find someone willing to get me in the business with no money down is a blessing and I'd like to add quite hard to find. Upon looking at this deal, I factored in a short term rental 1-2 yrs. It comes rehabbed and with instant equity. All for $95,000. My market isn't suffering like other markets around the country. So basically, do I roll the dice and hope I get a good tenant for a yr or two and sell for a possible $30-50,000 equity grab. I feel like I'm at my wits and this is the best deal I can find. It was a referal from a realtor that runs my real estate meetup group. I do throw bids out with my hard money but propertys around here go for .70c on the dollar & I need .40-.50c. I'm not trying to be a long term landlord right now, just short term to get an equity grab so I can have a little breathing room. Thanks again for all the replies. Also, doing this with a 6% loan instead of 7% have any positive outcome. I have a mortgage connection that might slide one by at 5%-6%.


Banker · Tampa Area, Florida


wow, a mortgage connection that can give you an investment/rehab loan for 5-6?

hmmmmmmm


· VIRGINIA BEACH, Virginia


lol, man eat man world out there, everyone tryin to survive. My ex hasn't worked in 9yrs but managed to buy two properties by wallets in the mortgage business who make things slide by. I figured why not try myself.


Real Estate Investor · Wheat Ridge, Colorado


I may be totally off base here, but I think you're about to be hosed by a builder, a mortgage broker and an agent working in cahoots. Wouldn't be the first time. It happened a BUNCH here during the boom. Building builds a few houses and "sells" them to friends at inflated prices. Viola la! New comps. He then proceeds to build and sell houses to unsuspecting buyers, using these three sales as the comps.

What you propose in your original post is loan fraud, assuming you're getting a loan that's covered by RESPA, which you must be at the rates you're quoting. Lenders are wise to this "seller second as down payment" deal, and will not allow it. 6% max seller contribution. The only way this will go through is to falsify the documents, or to do some trickery under the table.

If the builder is willing to sell you a brand new property for $95K, guess what its worth? $95K. End of story.

You may get lucky and this will work out OK. Most likely, you're stuck with a property that sucks money out of your pocket every month and you eventually do a short sale to dump it. At worst, the lender gets wise to whats happened and sues you.

Good Luck.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


· VIRGINIA BEACH, Virginia


Hey, I like honesty. The mortgager is unknown to the other parties at this time. It was just a thought to the equation just in case it was needed to make this cash flow positive. I'm taking a further review on Tue. with this builder. Over 10 people in my investment group have bought from this builder and he came highly recomended from an investor friendly perspective. I'm the only rookie so I think they are trying to help me considering my situation. I might of been hosed by my ex but I will definitely use due dilligence in this matter! p.s. It's not a new property, just a rehab. He does both.


Real Estate Investor · Ohio


This is a HUGE roll of the dice and I believe that you will lose. If the property were really worth $120K, why would this experienced seller let you have it for $95K????? I'll tell you why - because he can't sell it for $120K. This isn't a desperate seller, it's a sophistocated seller making a bunch of money off of newbies.

Just the suggestion that there be an under the table second that will be forgiven should be telling you something! Although I could be wrong - maybe the seller lies to the bank but won't lie to you. LOL!

If there's really $30K to $50K in equity there, why don't you just buy it and then sell it right away?

Mike




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