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Forums » General Real Estate Investing » A hypothetical question

A hypothetical question Subscribe to A hypothetical question

19 posts by 9 users

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Hello everyone, I was hoping some experienced investors could step up to the plate and answer my question as I know very little about real estate in general.

My question/background:

I have $1,000,000 to spend on real estate properties. I live in a suburb of Indianapolis. My question is how would you spend this hypothetical money?

Would you pay off these homes then rent them out? Would you buy an apartment complex? Would you buy commercial? Simply looking for more people to give inputs nothing more nothing less.

Thank you.


Real Estate Consultant


Obviously, it depends. Before beginning, I would ask questions like:

1. How old are you?
2. What are your objectives?
3. What is your risk tolerance?
4. How involved do you desire to be personally?

If it were me, I would buy single family homes that cash flowed and leverage them about 50% or less. I would take my sweet time making sure that I found the best deals in my area. I would make so many offers that it would drive my agent nuts. I would close only on the true gems.

That's just me.



1. 44

2. Leave a small empire for my children.

3. Personally, I would rather pay off homes in Fishers (where I reside) and rent them all out somewhere north of 2k per month. I am open to any suggestions. My risk is based on how influenced I can be by experienced RE brokers/investors and my attorney on how to invest this properly. So risk is open ended right now.

4. I am willing to spend as much time as possible on these properties for them to work out. As involved as I can get.


Real Estate Consultant


Many others will give advice here. This is a very active forum. I would spend a LOT of time reading here. If I were you, I would pay special attention to valuing property and analyzing expenses.

Many will tell you how great a time it is to buy real estate now...and, I agree. However, none of us have ever seen an economic melt down like this. I think that real estate is now a relatively safe place to have money, but if I had $1M cash, I would also consider doing lots of other things with it right now.

Good luck, there are some very talented and knowledgeable people here that will help you for free.


Residential Real Estate Agent · Carmel, Indiana


Colin,

Living in Indianapolis gives you many differnet opportunities. You can buy houses/duplexes in the Carmel, Noblesville, and Fisher's areas and hold them as rentals and/lease w/option candidates. You could buy rentals in the Broad Ripple area to younger college kids or kids right out of college. If you wanted to flip houses and make a profit for your kids you could look at doing that anywhere north of 56th St.

As far as commercial goes, there are great units downtown for sale with pretty good cash flow. I wouldn't reccommend trying to fix one up, unless you have a crew of contractors lined up that you absolutely trust to do good work at a fair price.

I will say that trying to rent houses in your market for over $2k per month is going to be a little difficult unless it is with an option to buy. Once the new buildings go up and the new business park is created, you might be more suited to try that solution.

Hope this is helpful.

Thanks, Joey


Real Estate Investor · Wheat Ridge, Colorado


There are many ways to make money with real estate. A bunch of them are more jobs than investments, though. Wholesaling and fix-and-flipping are like that.

Rentals are more of a real investment. If you manage them yourself there is a property management job involved. If you hire this out, its pretty much a passive investment.

If you want to hold rentals, read in the Landlording forum about expenses. Read all that discussion, then form your opinion about what you think.

Lower end rentals are often more profitable. You should be able to find LOTS of properties in Indiana you can buy and turn into profitable rentals. A dead simple formula is to take the rent, divide by two to take out expenses. Subtract out some amount for cash flow. $100 is a common number. The remaining amount is your maximum payment. Do a PV calculation ( present value) to get then loan amount. Use this as the maximum you will pay, even if you pay cash or put in a down payment.

If you're putting in cash, either paying cash or a down payment, do a cash-on-cash calculation. Take you cash flow (rent - ALL EXPENSES - payment (if any)) for a year and divide by total cash invested. For real estate, I want that number up aroung 20%+. RE is a risky investment and a lot of work, so you want a good return. Note, however, that if you have only a small amount of cash in the deal, this number may be huge and not very meaningful.

Buy at a steep discount. Find a farm area, and get to know it in and out. Find out what nice houses in that area sell for, and buy at a steep discount (30%+, maybe more like 50% in Indiana.) If a house needs work, subtract off the cost of the work AFTER discounting the retail price.

You won't find those deals on the MLS or from someone who's offering "turnkey" investments. It will take work to find those deals. But once you get started, and build a reputation, it will get easier.

If you can buy houses for $50K that rent for $1000/month, you'll meet these criteria. I believe you'll be able to find deals like this in IN. Subtract 50% for rent, leaving NOI of $500. If you're buying lots of houses, you'll have to do commercial loans. Say 7% for 20 years, and probably only a fixed rate for 3-5 years. Payment with those terms would be $388, leaving you with $112 cash flow. If you put down 20% plus closing costs, you'll get $190 a month in cash flow and have about $11000 investing. That's a 20.7% return,

If instead you pay cash and have about $51000, you'll get cash flow of $500/month. Thats a ROI of 11.7%. But much less risk.

With a cool million, you could buy 91 houses with loans or 19 in cash. With leverage, your cash flow is $207K a year while with paying cash your cash flow is $118K a year. With leverage you could use your cash flow to buy 18 more houses in the next year. All cash, you can buy two more in the next year.

Assuming you're buying at a 30% discount, the retail value of those houses is $71,400. With leverage, your total equity in the houses is $2.86 million. With cash, its $1.4 million.

All that does include you paying for a property manager.

Realistically, you're probably not going to buy 100 houses. So, you'll end up buying apartements or other multi-units, or maybe commercial properties (retail, offices, industrial, etc.)

Learn the business before you do anything. There are lots of people out there who will be glad to separate you from that cash. Either with flat out scams, or with mediocre deals. Take anything you hear from anyone who stands to make money from you with a grain of salt. With work, you'll find good people to work with. Just watch out for ones thare aren't, or are just looking to make a buck from you.

Find a good lawyer and a good CPA that really, really know real estate.

Go buy and read a dozen different books on real estate investing.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


Real Estate Investor · Myrtle creek , Oregon


Jon, great post and a lot of good advice. Colin, best of luck with your investments. Don't take the knowledge on bigger pockets lightly, learn the different forums well, Jim


Real Estate Investor · Cincinnati, Ohio


Originally posted by David Peeples


If it were me, I would buy single family homes that cash flowed and leverage them about 50% or less. I would take my sweet time making sure that I found the best deals in my area. I would make so many offers that it would drive my agent nuts. I would close only on the true gems.

That's just me.

David,
What's your reason behind buying single family properties that cashflow as opposed to buying multi-families that cashflow better?

· Alabama


Hi Colin,

I too would do the same thing. would pay off homes and rent it. that is a simple as well as one of the best ways of investment.

Thanks,


Wholesaler · Memphis, Tennessee


Colin, another possible spin for you is to become a hard money lender. We have private hard money lenders that only lend to our investors. They make 5 points right off the top and then 1 point per month on the back end. If you are making several loans you can create an income stream greater than any interest rate out there. Our HM lenders are doing very well. Just another options for you.

Small_buymemphisnow_stacksCurt Davis, buyMemphisnow.com
E-Mail: crtdavis@gmail.com
Telephone: 901-881-0552
Website: http://www.buymemphisnow.com
Full Service Real Estate Investing in Memphis TN



Wanted to start off by saying thanks Jon for a very informed post.

The general consensus seems to be that higher priced homes aren't generally as effective as cheap homes.

Why exactly is that? Is there no market for rentals at my stated price (2k)?

If there is very little lending going on, what about the people who could normally afford the 150k house but due to the economy cant get a loan?

Fishers & Carmel are easily the nicest areas in Indiana, and people want to live here because of quality of life and the "snob appeal". (Mention you live in Fishers or Carmel anywhere outside of the area and you can see a change in people good or bad).

I feel like the minority on this one so can anyone shed some light?


Residential Real Estate Agent · Carmel, Indiana


Colin,

I love Carmel, I went to school there and my office is there. Carmel does get a really bad rep as being known as "stuck up" but probably for good reason. I know Fisher's is starting to get the same reputation, hopefully it won't be as bad as Carmel.

In this market, how would you get a person to pay $2k per month in rent on a $150k house, when there payment is going to be $1200 per month if they bought a house. People do not have that kind of money right now.

Take a place like Broad Ripple where you can have 20 somethings rent your place and not worry about being in the "hood" and you would have only paid $50k for the property.

However, you can look at some bank owned stuff in Hamilton County, such as Noblesville which are cheap enough that you may be able to get $1000/month for rent and would only cost you $75 to $80k to buy and have fixed up, with some good searching. You could also sell these properties for a nice profit in 5 years and maybe give that money to your kids as their retirement.

Thanks, Joey Gaard


Real Estate Consultant


David,
What's your reason behind buying single family properties that cashflow as opposed to buying multi-families that cashflow better?

I believe that when you first invest in real estate you should manage your rental(s) on your own for a period of time so that you can have a real understanding of what your management "should" be doing (I wish I had followed that advice myself). I think SFD properties make for an easier transition for first time RE investors.



Thanks Joey. If you had to take a quick guess, from what you know as a RE agent is there a market for these rentals in Noblesville? Or do you still stand by the Broadripple idea?


Real Estate Investor · Wheat Ridge, Colorado


Why exactly is that? Is there no market for rentals at my stated price (2k)?

Landlording is all about the numbers. Rents and prices are independent. Just because a house costs twice as much doesn't mean it will rent for twice as much. Certainly if you jump up to $500K houses, they won't rent for anywhere near 10X a $50K house. Learn your area, see what houses sell for and what they rent for. The higher the rent to price multipler the better the property is as a rental. If you area is like many others, you'll find a sweet spot that's toward the lower end.

There was some other advice about lending money. I'd second the thought to investigate that. It can be very profitable to be a hard money lender. You pass up the opportunity for appreciation of the property itself, and you don't have the tax advantages (overrated, IMHO, but talk with your CPA), but its less hassle and less work. If you can buy a house for $50K and rent it for $1000 a month, that's only $500 after expenses, not including the P&I payment. A hard money loan of $50K can easily return more than $500 a month. Its fully taxable, though, vs the rental income is probably minimally taxed.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC



I have taken brief look, and all the Fishers homes I have seen were at 1.5k-2k a month. 2500 sq feet homes.


Real Estate Investor · Canyon Lake, California


And wouldn't you guys agree that at some point it is simply up to personal preference? What you know and what you enjoy. Some investors seem to love large apartment complexes. Some want free and clear SFR's in solid working class neighborhoods. Some seem to have an affinity for commercial, and then others want to dabble in all of the above plus some! What an exciting time for those who have money to invest, huh?


Residential Real Estate Agent · Carmel, Indiana


Colin,

As a RE agent and working with different property managers, there is a market in Noblesville where houses in Hamilton County are still cheap enough to cash flow. You can even get a steal every once in a while on a duplex or triplex in Noblesville. Also, do not forget about some of the rural towns near here, such as Atlanta, Arcadia, and Sheridan where it is mostly a farmer's town but people still rent.

Thanks, Joey


Real Estate Investor · Myrtle creek , Oregon


Colin, ,if the rent is 1.5 K per month you should purchase at 75K. at 2K per month you need to purchase at 100K. If you can do this in Fishers they should properly cash flow. Jim




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