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Forums » Real Estate Deal Analysis and Advice » Understanding how to analyze a SFR vs. Duplex

Understanding how to analyze a SFR vs. Duplex Subscribe to Understanding how to analyze a SFR vs. Duplex

17 posts by 8 users

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Contractor · New Jersey


I recently saw a SFR and a duplex for sale. Both had similar asking prices with similar gross rents. I was a little confused, however, when trying to analyze both deals, as the SFR seemed to be significantly better than the duplex. The following are basic numbers for the purpose of easy calculation:

Single Family
PRICE: $30,000
RENT: $650

NOI: $325
30 years at 6%: $179 P & I
CASH FLOW: $146

Duplex
PRICE: 30,000
RENT 1: $325:
RENT 2 $325

30 years at 6%: $179 P & I
CASH FLOW: $146 ($73 per door)

So, what does a scenario like this indicate? Could someone explain how/why the SFR would be a better deal, or am I approaching this scenario from the wrong perspective?

Thanks!
Fred


Wholesaler · Maryland


Fred,

Why are you aksing about the SFH being a better deal? They sure look like the same numbers to me. DO you think it is a better deal? Did someone tell you it is a better deal? Do you want to buy a SFH and want it to be a better deal?

I would choose the SFH as you have the same income for one less tenant. But other factors may make more difference like comps, condition of property, terms of teh deal etc.


Real Estate Investor · Wheat Ridge, Colorado


For this pair, I think the SFR is a better deal. You get the same cash flow but have only one tenant.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


Real Estate Investor · CO


I have to agree, the SFH is the better deal. In terms of exit strategy, the SFH will have a much bigger pool of buyers than the duplex. SFH are mostly sold to owner occupants, not so with multis.

The only downside I can see is that a vacancy in the SFH is 100% income loss.


Contractor · New Jersey


Originally posted by "ncarey"
Fred,

Why are you aksing about the SFH being a better deal? They sure look like the same numbers to me. DO you think it is a better deal? Did someone tell you it is a better deal? Do you want to buy a SFH and want it to be a better deal?

I would choose the SFH as you have the same income for one less tenant. But other factors may make more difference like comps, condition of property, terms of teh deal etc.

Obviously I was not sure if it was a better deal -that's why I asked.

My confusion came from the commonly discussed notion of having a minimum of $100 positive cash flow, per door. And when comparing two properties, where the numbers are virtually the same, it seems like the better choice would be the SFR.


Rehabber · Santa Clarita, California


In the example senario, the sfr is better from a standpoint that we look for $100 per door in cash flow. As mentioned by another post, the only negative on the sfr in this example is that a vacancy would be 100%.

The other item to look at is increased rents. By increasing the rent $25, you get $25 more on the sfr, but $50 on the duplex. If there is room to increase rents, the duplex may be better, so long as you can get it to $100 per door cash flow.

Small_barnardenterprisesWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com


Property Manager · Honolulu, HI


OP has not provided enough info for a reasonable analysis. You need more than JUST these numbers...like it or not, RE involves those fuzzy things- emotions, feelings, etc. Realistically, a SFR is not generally a great deal different than a duplex when you look at the big picture. Specifically, how does the lot SF, finished SF, floor plan, style, location, and orientation compare?

If the subject duplex has roughly the same finished SF as the SFR, then the rooms in the duplex will be cramped and not as useable, and thereby harder to rent. OTOH, if the duplex has been upgraded, but the SFR is at the end of its functional life, the SFR will be harder to rent. With the subject properties mentioned, clearly there is a significant inequity that you need to identify.

Can you force appreciation with minimum effort on one or the other?
Which one is the better deal? Which one provides the most total current value, and which one has the potential for most improvement? What is the 10 year REAL projected maintenance expense for each (I'm not talking 50% rule here-- I mean have you surveyed the physical elements and established a realistic repair/cap improvement schedule for each property?)?

You need to compare apples to apples, or at least KNOW that you are comparing apples with grapefruits. You should know your locale well enough to have a baseline " per unit" acceptable cost range for a " typical" unit of the type and condition you seek; and, you should have a ballpark idea of each typical major repair item you typically run into. If your ballpark figures don't get you into a range that will work financially, there is no need to sweat over figuring it down to the penny. There should be a clear profit + fudge factor minimum that you use for go/no go decision, but you need to factor in all of the tangible, and intangible variables.


Real Estate Investor · San Jose, California


Depending on your situation, I like the duplex for various reason. I get owner occupied fiancing, I can have 1 unit rented out while I'm fixing the other unit, move out a year later. You cut your vacancy rate by 50%. Out here in Cali, your conforming loan increase from 417K to 533K for duplex, you won't have that problem where you are. Does the duplex have 2 sperate addresses? I seen duplexes sold as 2 separte properties. Rental propeties appreciate just like a SFH.


Rehabber · Santa Clarita, California


You make some valid points, but obtaining an OO loan, then moving out without notifying the lender is fraud. They would have the right to call the note due, or worse, criminally prosecute you.

Also, not everyone wants to live in one side of their rental property. I would not unless I was young and single and could move around with ease.

Small_barnardenterprisesWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com


Wholesaler · Amarillo, Texas


Nation, I have never seen any clauses or paperwork requiring notification of the lender when you move. Blanket stating that its fraud is aggressive at best, downright wrong at worst. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, though.

What mortgage clause are you citing that would give a lender the right to call the note due if you move out of a property that you obtained an owner occupant loan on?

And criminal prosecution for mortgage fraud? You would have to sign a specific document stating you will not move out without notification, and I have never seen one.

Maybe I'm just ignorant of it, enlighten me Nation.


Rehabber · Santa Clarita, California


Ryan,
Do you think a bank is ok with a person obtaining a loan based on being an occupant and then leaving to rent out the unit? If that was the case, I would get an OO loan on every one of my properties and then rent them out.
If I did not explain my position clearly, I appologize. I agree there are no docs signed that you need to notify upon leaving if you actually lived there. What I was refering to was the fraud aspect.

As far as the fraud being criminal, I am not an attorney, but that is how I understand it if it is committed. Perhaps you know otherwise if I am wrong.

Small_barnardenterprisesWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com


Wholesaler · Maryland


My understanding is that you DO typically sign a document that this will be you primary residence. I have seen these documents on properties I have sold to homeowners.

However my guess is that there is no restriction about moving out IF you actually do move in and it is your legal residence. (the key word there is guess :D ) Calling it your legal residnce when you don't actually move in and it never becomes your legal residence would be fraud.


Real Estate Investor · San Jose, California


Originally posted by "ncarey"
Calling it your legal residnce when you don't actually move in and it never becomes your legal residence would be fraud.

Exactly! Why do people move? Maybe they got married and had kids and needed a bigger place. Or they found a new job. Tire of commuting and paying high gas price. They hate their neighbors. All legit reason. I'm not here too talk about frauding the bank. As long as you are making the payments, I don't think the bank will be knocking on your door.


Wholesaler · Amarillo, Texas


Okay 2 different things here.

1. If you are getting an owner occupant loan and you have no intention of moving into the property.

2. You are getting an owner occupant loan on a duplex and you have an intention of moving out down the road and renting out both sides.

Number 1 is fraud, and yes you would sign papers affirming that it is your homestead which would amount to fraud.

Number 2 is NOT fraud, and I have never seen anything requiring notification if you move out.

Moving out without notification was the specific point I was addressing. Nation, you stated that moving out without notifying your lender would be fraud and that they could call the note due and prosecute you criminally.

Around here with all the newbies running around, we always like to keep our $*@& straight. If its not fraud, don't say it is. If you don't know, don't say you do. If you've heard through the grapevine but don't know for sure, then say I heard through the grapevine but I don't know for sure.

It just keeps everyone on the same page around here rather than everyone thinking this or that, which may or may not be true.


Rehabber · Santa Clarita, California


Ryan,
I was refering to point #1 which would be fraud. I was under the impression that the original question/post was implying that they could say they were going to live there and then move out. If that was the case, I could " say I was going to live there, sign the docs, and then " move right back out. Are you saying that would not be fraud? If I misinterpreted the question, my deepest apologies for offending you sir as I like to keep my @#$^ straight too!

I am not an attorney, and have never stated I am the authority on how a lender would perceive that senario. Are you saying you are? If so, say it so we all know you are the authority on the subject. If not, do not tell others what to say or not to say and how to say it. This is an open forum and we all are here to learn from others as well as teach others.

There are many, many posters here giving there opinions and many more who do not have the slightest clue what they are talking about. I simply posted what I understand to be the law regarding senario 1.

You said that moving out without notifying your lender was the point you were addressing. I was pointing out that if you really had no intention of being an OO, then you would be commiting fraud as I understand it from a non-lawyer, investor standpoint. If I am wrong, please post evidence to the contrary.

Small_barnardenterprisesWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com


Wholesaler · Amarillo, Texas


Originally posted by "nationwidepi"
You make some valid points, but obtaining an OO loan, then moving out without notifying the lender is fraud. They would have the right to call the note due, or worse, criminally prosecute you.

This was the point you made, and in my opinion this seems like you are making a very strong statement about specific laws that frankly you know nothing about.

My point is merely that your point is wrong, and for the sake of the open forum if you don't know something, don't act like you do. If you were addressing a different point then you should be more clear about your communication, because what you communicated originally describes something very different than what you are saying now.

People love throwing around the " fraud" word or all to common " that's illegal" statement, and the truth is that they know nothing about the laws.

Now I was sharing with you some basic guidelines of teaching and sharing with others, not because I am a lawyer, but because this forum is here to help people with accurate information. By spreading inaccurate information or even miscommunicating accurate information you can directly affect someone else's business in a negative way. This forum is designed to help spread accurate information in a clear and helpful way, and I would hope that you would take that design into consideration when you are sharing information with other members.


Rehabber · Santa Clarita, California


You seem intent on arguing that I am wrong and YOU are right, and that I know nothing and you know the laws as it pertains to this topic. I refuse to argue with you as this will be my last post on this thread.

If I was unclear in my first post, I appologize as I have already stated. I was merely pointing out that investors should act in a conservative and responsible manner and stay on the side of caution rather than a gray area. As I will clearly state, obtaining an OO loan under false pretense with no intent to live there or a predetermined intent on immediatley leaving to rent out the unit would be a fraudulant act AS I UNDERSTAND IT. Again, I am not an attorney.

I also stated that we both agree that senario #1 you outlined is fraud and senario #2 is not. That said, there is no further need for your slander or need to discredit what I do or do not know.

Now let us get back to the orginal topic of this thread which was what is a better deal, a duplex or SFR?

Small_barnardenterprisesWill Barnard, Barnard Enterprises, Inc.
E-Mail: info@barnardenterprises.com
Website: http://www.barnardenterprises.com
info@barnardenterprises.com




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