5/25/12 IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: MAJOR BP Update Next Week!

Hide this

Jump to Category View All

Click a category below to view different forum categories.

BiggerPockets

General Info

Rss10 BiggerPockets Q&A, Site Questions, & Announcements

1001 topics, 8198 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 07:25PM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Exclusive PRO Area

12 topics, 81 posts — Last Post 03/23/12, 03:25PM

Rss10 New Member Introductions

4596 topics, 26506 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 04:49AM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Success Stories

152 topics, 1813 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:22AM

Rss10 BiggerPockets Real Estate Investing Summit

87 topics, 1549 posts — Last Post 05/07/12, 02:13PM

General Real Estate

General Real Estate

Rss10 Buying Real Estate

1318 topics, 10388 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 07:23PM

Rss10 Selling Real Estate

320 topics, 2544 posts — Last Post 05/08/12, 07:34PM

Rss10 Renters

202 topics, 1618 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:34AM

Rss10 Get Foreclosure Help - Help Stop Foreclosure Forum

221 topics, 1747 posts — Last Post 05/18/12, 08:38PM

Rss10 Home Owner Association (HOA) Issues & Problems Forum

111 topics, 719 posts — Last Post 05/08/12, 06:37AM

Rss10 Do it Yourself

328 topics, 2841 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 09:10AM

Reviews & Feedback

Rss10 Real Estate Deal Analysis and Advice

1625 topics, 12979 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 06:56PM

Rss10 Real Estate Guru, Book & Course Reviews and Discussions

700 topics, 7128 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 02:16PM

Rss10 Ask About A Real Estate Company

330 topics, 4781 posts — Last Post 05/10/12, 10:31PM

Real Estate Investing

Real Estate Strategies

Rss10 Wholesaling

2588 topics, 19948 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 12:14PM

Rss10 Rehabbing and House Flipping

1622 topics, 14297 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:24PM

Rss10 Real Estate Development

202 topics, 1123 posts — Last Post 05/19/12, 07:40AM

Rss10 Pre-Construction & New Home Construction

90 topics, 600 posts — Last Post 05/05/12, 11:02AM

Rss10 Innovative Strategies

377 topics, 2935 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:00PM

Rss10 Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Discussion

477 topics, 2850 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:54PM

Rss10 Rent to Own a.k.a. Lease Purchase, Lease Options

355 topics, 2229 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:12PM

Rss10 1031 Exchanges

62 topics, 342 posts — Last Post 04/29/12, 08:09PM

Foreclosure Investing

Rss10 General Foreclosure & Pre-Foreclosure Forums

1156 topics, 7084 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 06:30PM

Rss10 HUD, VA, and Tax Sales

216 topics, 1327 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:59PM

Rss10 REOs

948 topics, 7884 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 05:04PM

Rss10 Short Sales

1254 topics, 10440 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 01:58PM

Landlord & Tenant Forums

Rss10 Rental Property Questions & Landlording Issues

3183 topics, 28801 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 04:53PM

Rss10 Land & Farm Investing

118 topics, 736 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 01:27PM

Rss10 Mobile Homes & Mobile Home Park Investing

416 topics, 3071 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 05:40PM

Real Estate Dealmaking

Rss10 Make Deals, Find Partners, Mentors & BirdDogs, etc.

3703 topics, 13611 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 06:57PM

Rss10 Promote Your Real Estate Buyer's List

160 topics, 689 posts — Last Post 05/02/12, 05:54AM

Rss10 Property Wanted

635 topics, 3041 posts — Last Post 05/19/12, 07:44AM

Rss10 Seeking Financing, Money, or Loans

1245 topics, 7437 posts — Last Post 05/21/12, 10:41AM

Rss10 Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Dealmaking

277 topics, 1909 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 06:40PM

Rss10 Bulk REO Discussion and REO Dealmaking

843 topics, 5906 posts — Last Post 02/02/12, 04:20PM

Investor Basics

Rss10 Starting Out

4197 topics, 30898 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 03:17PM

Rss10 Investor Psychology

298 topics, 4486 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 09:01PM

Rss10 General Real Estate Investing

3145 topics, 21840 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:22PM

Rss10 Real Estate Investor Marketing

910 topics, 7482 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:26AM

Commercial Real Estate

Rss10 Commercial Real Estate Investing Forum

743 topics, 3995 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 08:46AM

Rss10 Multi-Family and Apartment Investing

219 topics, 2013 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 11:11AM

Rss10 Office Investing

3 topics, 36 posts — Last Post 11/15/11, 02:42PM

Rss10 Industrial Property Investing

4 topics, 14 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 06:44AM

Rss10 Retail Property Investing

10 topics, 77 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 10:15AM

Rss10 CRE Financing and Lending

26 topics, 247 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 05:27AM

Rss10 CRE Syndication and Fundraising

26 topics, 236 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 04:52PM

Rss10 CRE Property Management & Leasing

2 topics, 12 posts — Last Post 05/18/12, 12:34PM

The Business of Real Estate

Real Estate Technology and the Internet

Rss10 Technology, Social Media, Real Estate & The Web

269 topics, 2277 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 07:40AM

Rss10 Real Estate Blogs & Blogging

24 topics, 293 posts — Last Post 05/16/12, 09:29PM

Business Basics

Rss10 Goals, Business Plans & Entities

428 topics, 4273 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 09:08PM

Real Estate Finance & Legal

Financial, Tax, and Legal

Rss10 Tax, Legal Issues, Contracts, Self-Directed IRA

1349 topics, 9465 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 07:35AM

Rss10 Credit & Credit Repair

182 topics, 1484 posts — Last Post 05/22/12, 06:06PM

Rss10 Property Insurance

135 topics, 850 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 03:36PM

Rss10 Bankruptcy

21 topics, 113 posts — Last Post 05/21/12, 08:25PM

Loans, Mortgages, Credit Lines

Rss10 Private & Conventional Lending Discussion

1346 topics, 8087 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 02:20PM

Rss10 Creative Real Estate Financing

659 topics, 4285 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 10:58AM

Real Estate Professionals

Real Estate Professionals

Rss10 Real Estate Agents

639 topics, 3562 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 07:47PM

Rss10 Bankers, Lenders, and Mortgage Brokers

355 topics, 1268 posts — Last Post 05/04/12, 01:18AM

Rss10 Contractors

122 topics, 668 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 06:21PM

Local Real Estate

International Real Estate

Local Real Estate

Rss10 Local Real Estate Networking

612 topics, 3434 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 02:08PM

Rss10 Americans & International Real Estate

139 topics, 505 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 02:00PM

Rss10 Foreigners Buying in the USA

56 topics, 288 posts — Last Post 05/02/12, 07:54PM

Rss10 Canadian Real Estate

26 topics, 130 posts — Last Post 03/19/12, 05:58PM

Marketplace

Real Estate Marketplace

Rss10 Mortgages & Lending

392 topics, 1757 posts — Last Post 05/20/12, 03:10AM

Rss10 Residential Property, Land, & Farms For Sale

760 topics, 1463 posts — Last Post 05/24/12, 06:58PM

Rss10 Real Estate Events & Happenings

118 topics, 505 posts — Last Post 05/07/12, 10:07PM

Rss10 Commercial Properties for Sale or Lease

224 topics, 671 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:42AM

Rss10 Domains & Website Reviews

48 topics, 391 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 07:07AM

Rss10 Classifieds - Promote your Website, Newsletter, or Product

595 topics, 2801 posts — Last Post 05/23/12, 06:42PM

Off-Topic

Off Topic

Rss10 Off-Topic

1866 topics, 19997 posts — Last Post 05/25/12, 08:12AM

Rss10 Housing News & Real Estate Market

666 topics, 6615 posts — Last Post 05/09/12, 03:11PM

BiggerPockets Resources

decent deal? Subscribe to decent deal?

12 posts by 6 users

Signup

Surveyor · northglenn, Colorado


doing a short sale (accepted) on a condo for 57k; rehab costs around 5k. Rents are 800-850, hoa is 204. Paid cash for it. A 10% back to my IRA, plus it should sell for 80k today; near 100k in good times.
Debating on financing this though (I'm told a 60% loan) to free up that cash to try to do another. Opinions? Like, dumest deal ever or mediocre deal or good one- if you finance? Thanks,


Real Estate Investor · Wheat Ridge, Colorado


Not a great deal as a rental. Condos rarely are, thanks to the HOAs. 50% rule would give you $400-425 a month in NOI. Since you have $204 for HOA plus taxes and insurance, I have a feeling that's on the optimistic side. That gives you $4800 a year on a $65K (with costs) investment. That's a 7% cash on cash return.

If you fix it and sell it for $80K I'd take the money and run.

Not sure what you mean by "10% back to my IRA". If this is in your IRA and you sell it, you'll owe UBIT. I think 1st Bank will do 65% financing inside IRAs. But that's based on the purchase price. You'll have to wait a year to use a new appraisal. At least, that's the story I got in early 2009.

Small_flying-phoenixJon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC


Banker · Tampa Area, Florida


roger, i'm with jon...if you can unload it, i would!

hoa fees are just ridiculous. i will never, ever buy a rental that requires hoa. there will always be a payment and there will always be an assessment.


Real Estate Investor · sioux falls, South Dakota


I hate condos and here is why. HOA!!!!
This is the way I look at it. Spend the same amount to buy an SFR.
The HOA is $204 (MINIMUM!!!don't forget those wonderful "special assessments" for new roofs, asphalt, front doors, etc)
If you or an investor is going to buy this, the $204 costs me this.
On a 20 year amortized loan at 7%, the $ 204 amounts to an additional 26K I could finance.
My question is, how much more house could you get for an extra 26K in price. What would that sfr rent for? My guess is more than the 800-850 condo. An investor is not spending any more in monthly expenses, just re-allocating it from HOA to P&I , and the benefit is more net dur to higher rent.
I repeat, I HATE condos. They're NEVER free and clear due to hoa, and you're holding a keg of dynamite waiting for the extra assessments. In these days with fractured condo projects, many of the condos in a project being underwater and not paying THEIR hoas, it is a bad risk,imo.
We recently had a 29 unit condo project in Naples area with a TWELVE MILLION dollar loan that sold for 800K.
Good luck, take the money and run if you can get it. Rich


Rehabber · St. Louis, Missouri


Just a little more on HOAs. The first and last condo I looked at buying had HOA fees of $725/mo. Wait thats not the worst. Earlier in the year they had had a $12,000 special assessment to address some HVAC issues (it was a high rise). The manager played it off by saying it wasn't that big of a deal since he gave the owners 4 months to pay it. After some prying he also mentioned they would have another sizeable assessment for some much needed elevator upgrades. I passed on what at first looked like a no brainer deal.


Real Estate Investor · sioux falls, South Dakota


Mike V- you made my point nicely. Rich
whats the car?? I'll take you to eat sometime in March....


Rehabber · St. Louis, Missouri


Rich,
1970 mustang sportsroof. I rebuilt everything mechanical on it, drove the tires off of it then sold it to focus on rehabbing (and kids). I absolutely love cars but love making money even more.


Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, Wisconsin


Mike V.,
If you can look at something where you pay $750/mo HOA (I think this would be a flip or your personal home) I would think a 10k special assesment would not be a deal breaker. To get an HOA fee like that in my city your condo has to be close to or more than a million or be in a historical area where there is a ton of outside pait details, wooden storms, pools, cedar shake roofing, and 10 paint colors.


Rehabber · St. Louis, Missouri


Jeff,
This would have been a flip. ARV 150k, verbal agreement at 80K, needed about 20K in rehab so another 10-20K assessment would have wiped me out.
I agree that $750/mo is insane for that price point condo but I think thats one of the reasons the ARV was so low in that building. My monthly payment would have been less than my HOA fee.


Surveyor · northglenn, Colorado


Well, I asked for input.............

I've been looking at SFH for the last year off the MLS with no luck; when I found one that made sense, a bidding war was ensuing. So I thought I would buy this one to get my feet wet and learn process, and to learn what experienced investors take for granted. This complex has a 75% owner-occupied; and seems to rent quickly. My plan was to rent for 2-5 years, then sell.

So others can learn as well...... how would you recommend the unload? Market is down, so realtor and IRA transaction fees hit the profit. Try a lease/option? Sell by owner (shudder....)? Something..?


Rehabber · St. Louis, Missouri


If you can sell it for 80K and rehab is only 5K then your not terribly off by the 70% rule (overpaid by 6K). You should still turn a profit even with realtor commissions. Even if you break even you are doing better than many do on their first deal.


Real Estate Investor · sioux falls, South Dakota


Mike V. I understand getting rid of your car when kids arrive. I had my 3rd kid in Dec 1974. I traded in a 69 Vette with the big block 427 for an Olds station wagon! I picked up wife and daughter at the hospital in the wagon... It was sad.
The rest of the story---afew years later, I bought another 69 Vette with the even BIGGER big block 427. Wish I still had both today.




Sign up