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BiggerPockets Resources

Forums » Wholesaling » Recent Assignment Contract Bust

Recent Assignment Contract Bust Subscribe to Recent Assignment Contract Bust

55 posts by 21 users

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· Fort Wayne, Indiana


I live in Fort Wayne Indiana. Just last year J. T. Radebaugh was charged and jailed for assigning contracts on real estate properties. He made around 800K in 2 years. The local Attorney General filed charges saying that because he didn't have a realtors or brokerage license he couldn't collect fees such as his "assigment fee". That is how the paper described it. They went on to say that he was negotiating a price with the home seller and marking it up to a "cash" buyer and collecting an assigment fee. This sounds an awful lot like what I have been working to do for the past couple months.

Anyone out there have any insight? I would like to think that double closing would eliminate this argument becuase I would essentially take ownership of title and then simply sell again. This can't be any different from buying it myself and selling it a month later in the eyes of the law. Any thoughts. If you want to read the article look up his name on the Journal Gazette of Fort Wayne, IN.


Real Estate Investor · Akron-Canton, Ohio


Could you provide a link to what you read? I search the Gazette's website but I couldn't find that person anywhere. I also search google and nothing came up.


· Fort Wayne, Indiana


Sure...

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_action=list&p_topdoc=81

If you email me I can also send a scanned copy of the purchased article. You will have to pay 2 bucks to purchase otherwise.


· Fort Wayne, Indiana


March 14th 2009 publication date.


· Fort Wayne, Indiana


March 14th 2009 publication date.


Real Estate Investor · Altus, Oklahoma


Originally posted by Scott Hope
Sure...

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_action=list&p_topdoc=81

If you email me I can also send a scanned copy of the purchased article. You will have to pay 2 bucks to purchase otherwise.

Error:
servlet56a:

Your search session has expired.

Please make sure that cookies are enabled on your browser, then return to the search page and try again.
Please note that bookmarking of pages within the archive is not supported.


Real Estate Investor · Altus, Oklahoma


By the way someone needs to tell that stupid attorney general that assignments are legal because you have equitable interest.

If I were the guy I would file a lawsuit myself.


Real Estate Investor · Orlando, Florida


There must have been more to the story... 400k per year wholesaling sounds a tad bid high :)


Wholesaler · Nazareth, Pennsylvania


Like Johnny P. is saying.....there HAS to be more to this story.....like maybe not paying his taxes or something like that. I know someone who makes close to that and he puts in 60-70 hrs a week at this.
Wholesaling is 100% legal and there are many posts here discussing this topic. I know of Real Estate Lawyers that do settlements where wholesalers are involved.
I got my RE license last year and assigning properties is discussed, in a small part, in the studying materials.
I have personally done over 50 Wholesale deals in the last 4 years and the legality of it has never ONCE come up.
Talk to a good lawyer and RE agent.
This is the key here: You ARE not selling the property itself.....you are selling the paper , the contract, of which the property is attached to. Technically, once the assignment deal is assigned and you can collect your fee, if they back out of the deal you can keep your fee for selling the contract.
That's pretty much it....keep it simple.


Real Estate Investor · Altus, Oklahoma


That's why I'm going to withhold my opinion until more info comes.

By the way does anyone have any more information on this case?


· Fort Wayne, Indiana


Thank you all for your comments and experience. I am going to get the details of the case at the court house or library this week. If I learn anything else I will post it.

I have also met with a RE lawyer about wholesaling to have my contracts checked and he was the one who suggested I do my research locally on recent cases. I will need to get a second opinion.

Again though, I'm not looking for legal advice, but does anyone side with me on the fact that a double close would eliminate any of the reasons they sited for unlawful actions? I would be showing a vested and finacial interest in the property by taking title during the process.


Roofing Contractor · Woodlands, Texas


Then aren't you limited to the number of times you close per year without holding a license? You ain't trying to scare us is ya? I think your full of farts....


· Fort Wayne, Indiana


I was just trying to do my research when not only a local lawyer warned me and then an investor that requested information about a property I had.

Read the article for yourself. All I'm looking for is honest conversation on why this guy would have been charged.


Developer · San Diego, California


There's a reason they make people get a license.
I don't know why anyone who does this as a living wouldn't get their license.

Just because you have done it before doesn't mean its not illegal (not saying it is).

Closing on the deal Would now make you the seller and I would think that would work.

Btw when you guys are assigning your contracts are you disclosing to the seller your selling it for more money?


Real Estate Investor · Orlando, Florida


Dont double close unless you need to, the closing costs will obviously cut into your profits.

Yes both parties know whats going on and that its being marked up.


Residential Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, New York


Wow, what a great posting this is. Scott, I'd like a copy of what you suggested that can be had by emailing you, however I'm new here and I don't know how to get your email. If you know how to do it, please email it to me.
OK, here's the deal on this. And before any of you "pros" out there snub me for being a Realtor, keep in mind that I specialize in your world and i've done hundreds of deals.
So, the law in NY State, which i believe is similar everywhere in the Country, reads as such "anyone who buys, sells, or rents real property for another and for a fee must be licensed." With that in mind, you can still assign any contract. I think that we all agree on this. What I'm talking about is when you have a Realtor write a contract and in the space provided for the buyers name you put "so and so AND/OR ASSIGNS". Anything other than that is not what i'm writing about and anything other than that is probably where your problem is.
Where it gets sticky is the fee. If you're trying to collect a fee for doing it, meaning a sort of side deal that works behind the scenes of the contract - you can easily get into trouble, especially if there's a bank involved in the final step, meaning that the end buyer is using a mortgage. In alot of cases, since no one is harmed there is usually no one to complain. However, there is a growing trend to stop this type of real estate investor activity. Here's the reason why. When you, as the original investor get into this type of deal, you have to remember that if your assignee fails on the contract, you still have a contract and you still have to buy it. As you can imagine, there has been a flood of deals that fail to close when assignee's fail on them and that has created a rally cry for someone to do something about it. So much so, that a lot of Realtors already think it's illegal. It's not, but there's so much bad press about deals falling through because of this there is a desire to put a stop to "and/or assigns" that goes all the way to Washington.
The easy way to avoid all of this hassle is to do a dual closing where you're buying it and selling it at the same time. This way, your purchase price is X on your contract to buy, and your selling price is X + $$$ on your contract to sell, and the $$$ is your "fee". This is clean. Here's a tip for those concerned about dual closing costs. Factor that into the end buyers purchase, get them to agree to pay your closing costs.


Real Estate Investor · Orlando, Florida


So, the law in NY State, which i believe is similar everywhere in the Country, reads as such "anyone who buys, sells, or rents real property for another and for a fee must be licensed."

Ok this is why we are assigning the contract....

What I'm talking about is when you have a Realtor write a contract and in the space provided for the buyers name you put "so and so AND/OR ASSIGNS"

Why is a realtor involved?? You should be dealing directly with the homeowner as an investor. Unless you are bidding on REO's which are not assignable anyways. Here in FL it's as simple as checking a box on the Far Bar As Is contract that says "Buyer may assign and thereby be released from any further liability under this contract"

a sort of side deal that works behind the scenes of the contract

Everything is out in the open, there is no "side deal" - the seller knows your intentions and is grateful. The buyer also knows exactly what is happening when they sign the paperwork saying " I agree to pay an assignment fee in the amount of $5,000 to {insert company name} etc etc etc"

HONESTY WORKS PEOPLE, stop thinking you have to do something sketchy to make money!

Don't double close unless its an REO, why pay for transactional funding ( assuming you can't bring the funds to the table) when you can just assign the contract. ITS SO EASY A CAVEMAN CAN DO IT!!!!


Wholesaler · Amarillo, Texas


Here's what I could dig up.

http://www.fortwayne.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/JG/20070928/LOCAL/709280322

http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080314/LOCAL/803140324/0/LOCAL07

Pages 7-9 http://www.in.gov/dlgf/files/ALLEN_2009_NARRATIVE.pdf

There is definitely more to the story here. It would seem to me that the State of Indiana DID use the fact that he was using an option contract and then assigning the properties rather than being in the chain of title to prosecute him. Now the reason WHY they decided to prosecute was not because he was assigning properties but because his Ponzy scheme was collapsing. He made up to double the purchase price selling the properties on allegedly inflated appraisals (the appraisers had their licenses suspended) to investors that he would then buy the properties back from on land contracts and then rent them out at rents that would not cover the mortgage payments. He stopped paying the investors and they went to the attorney general.

The Indiana attorney general's office stated "He was not, in our view, an owner nor had an interest in the property, despite his claims to the contrary,"

Not sure if double closing would alleviate the AG's position or not. From the articles it seems that the actual assignment and the lack of being in the chain of title was the issue they leveraged, but its hard to trust news articles to that degree. I left a message with the Indiana Attorney General's office. We'll see if I get a call back.

Interesting. I would definitely talk with a well qualified real estate attorney in Indiana before doing assignments.



So if I understand correctly, he optioned the properties and then assigned them without actually filling out a purchase contract with the seller?

I'm a bit concerned since I've been planning on using an option contract to tie up the property and then executing a purchase contract, before eventually assiging to an end buyer. I had an local Chicago real estate attorney look at my contracts and say it was fine but this does seem a bit alarming.


· Stone Mountain, Georgia


I believe " Assignmenet of Contract " is fine as long as all parties involved are informed.
I disagree with Johnny's comment --yes people do make and can make over $400,000 in one year -actually in three months --as a wholesaler --if you have cash and concentrate on upscale homes --over $500,000 ---your spread - fee is much higher--

I am planning to get into whoelsalling this--if any one intereste d- just saw a house -previously valued at $330,000 --is now on auction with minimum bid of $70,000 ---nice to have at $100,000 and Resell for $150,000.

And about --Option Contract " -- yes that can also be assigned for a reasonable fee --such as $3000 or $5000 to other Invetsor-- at the
same price we offered to buy --

Always check with local realtor, RE Attorney and Specifically Hard Money Lender about Assignment VS Double Closing --now some people use the term - Back to Back closing --




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