Looking for Cheapest market is erroneous plan!!!!

Looking for Cheapest market is erroneous plan!!!!

Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

I read a thread this morning on cheapest market. It made me wonder if that really mattered? Is it that important? Is it the most important thing in buying properties?
Each investor can answer that last question for themself. Here is the way I'd look at it. That isn't important to me compared to a couple other items.
1. What can I rent a median price home for in that area? For example, if I buy a 100K home in your area, what will it rent for? If you are in certain areas around the country, you can't play this what if game!
2. Where does that 100K home fit in your area in regards to the median price home in this area?
3. Is this home in an extra high cost area for property taxes and property insurance? Texas, Florida, and other areas that have out of the ordinary costs for these items
4. What is the potential upside for this 100K property? Is it in an area where people want to live?
5.Is this 100K property seriously devalued at purchase time?

Now, if I take the above into consideration, do I still care that Detroit, or Dayton, or other areas like that can be bought dirt cheap? There are some areas that I wouldn't buy, simply because they're in the cheapest areas. I might feel differently if I LIVED in that area that has homes that are dirt cheap.
It would also be important to me to make sure the property being purchased cheap didn't lose its' allure due to extensive repairs or upgrades neccessary.
Like all other real estate characteristics, buyers should not get tunnel vision,i.e. "cheapest market", "gimmick terms", "owner financing", etc. Many of these things are simply the outer cover on a defective product, once you get inside and see it for what it is.
Good luck to us all in this turbulent time. I'm not trying to pour cold water on ideas you may have. I'm just suggesting youview the entire picture. I compare it to taking a snapshot of a scene. You see very little. If you take a video of the same scene, you'll obtain a more complete picture. That is what we should all be doing in this market. A snapshot would be "just seeing cheapest market". A video would include the study of all the items that I've listed above, and others you may think of . Rich in Vegas.

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Jeff TumbarelloPro Member
Real Estate Broker · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 323 votes
17y
Originally posted by Rich Weese:
I read a thread this morning on cheapest market. It made me wonder if that really mattered? Is it that important? Is it the most important thing in buying properties?
Each investor can answer that last question for themself. Here is the way I'd look at it. That isn't important to me compared to a couple other items.
1. What can I rent a median price home for in that area? For example, if I buy a 100K home in your area, what will it rent for? If you are in certain areas around the country, you can't play this what if game!
2. Where does that 100K home fit in your area in regards to the median price home in this area?
3. Is this home in an extra high cost area for property taxes and property insurance? Texas, Florida, and other areas that have out of the ordinary costs for these items
4. What is the potential upside for this 100K property? Is it in an area where people want to live?
5.Is this 100K property seriously devalued at purchase time?

Now, if I take the above into consideration, do I still care that Detroit, or Dayton, or other areas like that can be bought dirt cheap? There are some areas that I wouldn't buy, simply because they're in the cheapest areas. I might feel differently if I LIVED in that area that has homes that are dirt cheap.
It would also be important to me to make sure the property being purchased cheap didn't lose its' allure due to extensive repairs or upgrades neccessary.
Like all other real estate characteristics, buyers should not get tunnel vision,i.e. "cheapest market", "gimmick terms", "owner financing", etc. Many of these things are simply the outer cover on a defective product, once you get inside and see it for what it is.
Good luck to us all in this turbulent time. I'm not trying to pour cold water on ideas you may have. I'm just suggesting youview the entire picture. I compare it to taking a snapshot of a scene. You see very little. If you take a video of the same scene, you'll obtain a more complete picture. That is what we should all be doing in this market. A snapshot would be "just seeing cheapest market". A video would include the study of all the items that I've listed above, and others you may think of . Rich in Vegas.



Rich,

Great post. I have the scar tissue to prove why the cheapest is not the best. The key to becoming an investor is be able to take a sound investment model, inject it into reality and have decent chance of success. It is rare to find someone who has gotten "rich" on the low end. I am sure there are some. Real Estate in and of itself will present enough opportunities on a cash flow basis without external factors ( vandalism, its interesting that a job well done can be remembered over time, we do not call such acts Visigoth's :)...). As well, the lower area's exhibit higher vacancy rates. Not many "guru's" teach about how to properly project vacancies. As a new investor, I sure did not.

The key to this game is identifying what model you are using as an investor. It the battle of the two giants. Gain versus income

I have the scar tissue to prove you should focus more on income than gain.

Also some area's are so cheap because, no one wants to live there........

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Tucson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 171 posts · 27 votes
    17y

    Timely for me. I was looking on the mls recently for really cheap houses to buy to rent out for a long time. None were in areas I am familiar with, and were on streets whose names I don't recognize.

    I have a pre-purchase checklist, but your questions would have to be answered before even looking at a house. Neighborhood statistics including demographics and crime rate are important.

    Your #4-an area where people want to live?-Not the ones I've seen so far. Most were in outlying areas, distant from employment, schools, shopping, most social interests, and public transportation.

    Your questions have to do with the REAL cost of owning such properties, as opposed to buying

    M Read

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    17y

    For someone with few posts on here, you seem on base with your thinking. Anytime you have questions or thoughts, share them on here. Rich

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Rich Weese:
    For example, if I buy a 100K home in your area, what will it rent for?


    100k is a cheap market?!?
  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    17y

    Tim- my questions began with "what can I rent a median price home for in your area?"
    Then, I give 100K as an example. I also stated that many areas won't be able to play this what if game. Most of CA, areas of NY, HI, WA, etc. I just took an average that seemed to fit for most areas, imo. Rich.
    p.s. Obviously, the thread was useless. Not a single poster answered any of the questions. Oh well, its' daturday.

  • Jeff TumbarelloPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 323 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Rich Weese:
    I read a thread this morning on cheapest market. It made me wonder if that really mattered? Is it that important? Is it the most important thing in buying properties?
    Each investor can answer that last question for themself. Here is the way I'd look at it. That isn't important to me compared to a couple other items.
    1. What can I rent a median price home for in that area? For example, if I buy a 100K home in your area, what will it rent for? If you are in certain areas around the country, you can't play this what if game!
    2. Where does that 100K home fit in your area in regards to the median price home in this area?
    3. Is this home in an extra high cost area for property taxes and property insurance? Texas, Florida, and other areas that have out of the ordinary costs for these items
    4. What is the potential upside for this 100K property? Is it in an area where people want to live?
    5.Is this 100K property seriously devalued at purchase time?

    Now, if I take the above into consideration, do I still care that Detroit, or Dayton, or other areas like that can be bought dirt cheap? There are some areas that I wouldn't buy, simply because they're in the cheapest areas. I might feel differently if I LIVED in that area that has homes that are dirt cheap.
    It would also be important to me to make sure the property being purchased cheap didn't lose its' allure due to extensive repairs or upgrades neccessary.
    Like all other real estate characteristics, buyers should not get tunnel vision,i.e. "cheapest market", "gimmick terms", "owner financing", etc. Many of these things are simply the outer cover on a defective product, once you get inside and see it for what it is.
    Good luck to us all in this turbulent time. I'm not trying to pour cold water on ideas you may have. I'm just suggesting youview the entire picture. I compare it to taking a snapshot of a scene. You see very little. If you take a video of the same scene, you'll obtain a more complete picture. That is what we should all be doing in this market. A snapshot would be "just seeing cheapest market". A video would include the study of all the items that I've listed above, and others you may think of . Rich in Vegas.



    Rich,

    Great post. I have the scar tissue to prove why the cheapest is not the best. The key to becoming an investor is be able to take a sound investment model, inject it into reality and have decent chance of success. It is rare to find someone who has gotten "rich" on the low end. I am sure there are some. Real Estate in and of itself will present enough opportunities on a cash flow basis without external factors ( vandalism, its interesting that a job well done can be remembered over time, we do not call such acts Visigoth's :)...). As well, the lower area's exhibit higher vacancy rates. Not many "guru's" teach about how to properly project vacancies. As a new investor, I sure did not.

    The key to this game is identifying what model you are using as an investor. It the battle of the two giants. Gain versus income

    I have the scar tissue to prove you should focus more on income than gain.

    Also some area's are so cheap because, no one wants to live there........

  • Real Estate Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2008 · 148 posts · 22 votes
    17y

    Tim,

    I live in Santa Monica, CA -- $100,000 out here? Forget cheap -- that's a steal.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    17y

    I should clear up one point. It doesn't matter, imo, what the median price in your area is. What matters is what the RENT is for that median price home in a particular area.
    If the median price home is 150K and rent is 900, and another area has a median price of 100K and rent is 900, I buy the latter example. all things being equal. I realize there are lots of other factors.
    1. is home older or newer
    2. piece of crap or good condition?
    3. Detroit or Mesa?
    4. Upside in both area and property?
    5. strategy for owning?
    These are common sense, but still need to be entered into the equation, imo. Rich

  • Real Estate Investor · Pittsburg, PA · Member since 2009 · 64 posts · 6 votes
    17y

    I bought property in Pittsburg for less than 25K and I rent them for $600.
    I know I can't go wrong there. My tenants always pay on time.
    The only problem is to deal with the snow in winter.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    17y

    Winter can reduce your 600 in a hurry if you pay utilities. #'s do look good for cash flow. Rich at airport

  • Real Estate Investor · Pittsburg, PA · Member since 2009 · 64 posts · 6 votes
    17y

    I am not paying utilities. Never that will be a huge mistake.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Palmdale, CA · Member since 2009 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    17y

    Writing any kind of article talking about the cheapest market is tailored to satisfy those who are waiting for the market to hit the very bottom, so they can buy and watch the cream rise to the top. The problem with that is that the people are always looking for something to change. Even if the they bought and housing market does start to rise, will it keep rising? I think these types of fears paralyze people.

    I agree 100% that if you can get rent for the property to cover the loan, the house is in a nice area and you plan to hang onto the property for a long period of time, it's will be hard to lose on that type of investment.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Dana Point, CA · Member since 2008 · 147 posts · 7 votes
    17y

    Susan-if you are just trying to buy a property with rent that covers the loan, that is not a good investment. you it will be hard NOT to lose on that type of investment.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Dana Point, CA · Member since 2008 · 147 posts · 7 votes
    17y

    oops got cut off. looking to Just cover the mortgage with rent is a big mistake:(speaking from experience) and probably one of the most common from newbie investors

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Saratoga, CA · Member since 2009 · 71 posts · 9 votes
    17y

    I agree, covering your loan is definitely not enough.
    I shoot for 15% above all my costs. I had to go out of my area to find inexpensive rentals where they pay $750 per month, after all my expenses including PM, I clear $450. I invested $28K. For my first one I am happy. Now I need to find some seller financing properties.
    Rich, thanks for raising all the great questions, it is easy to apply them to neighborhoods as well.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    17y

    Rolly- when you like a post, click the vote button. That helps to keep it available and visible for others. Thanks for the appreciation. Rich

  • San Francisco, CA · Member since 2009 · 171 posts · 24 votes
    16y

    Great post Reese,

    As always, the economic definition of what is expensive becomes individual. There is no global answer.

    An investment arm question is, where can one afford the ARV discount inherent in a business plan.

    For example, I am going to focus on Augusta, GA because:

    1. I know the territory and do not wish,
    at onset, to invest time to learn
    another.
    2. I can afford 60 - 70% of the $100,000
    3 - 5 year SFR's

    Just because one knows the trends of a neighborhood or it's a relative "deal" (i.e. CA homes now priced at $160K vs $240) if it falls outside the limits set by careful financial analysis and a business plan that term is largely irrelevant

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