Most recent flip numbers compared to HGTV

Most recent flip numbers compared to HGTV

Investor / Wholesaler · Nashville, TN · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 667 votes

I wanted to take a minute to give  the honest truth behind flipping houses and how much money is ACTUALLY made doing this business. I promise not to hide any expenses to make it look like we make more money than we actually do. I occasionally watch the HGTV shows that glorify flipping and show these investors making $100k plus on every renovation project. However, I find that they never really show all the expenses and costs that we have when it comes to flipping. I’m going to break down one of our recent deals and show you all of the numbers the HGTV way and the ACTUAL way.

Quick Background on This Property

This house was one that we purchased at the foreclosure auction earlier this year. It was a 3/2 single family home, built in 1994, 1,625 sq ft with a pool in Navarre, FL. We didn't have access to the house before bidding but did know that the house was vacant. It's in a small subdivision with a couple of other foreclosures listed on the MLS and some decent comps. I did find that houses in that area with a pool sold well above those without and moved quickly.

Renovation Scope

This house was a relatively simple renovation and almost all cosmetic work. We demoed out the old flooring throughout the whole house, countertops in all bathrooms and kitchen, removed the old appliances, and did a lot of landscaping cleanup including the removal of a few dead palm trees out front and tossing the old fence. The whole house was repainted, laminate hardwood floors laid in the living areas, new baseboard trim, new carpet in the bedrooms, new tile flooring in the bathrooms and outside patio, granite countertops in kitchen and all bathrooms, stainless steel appliances, paint the cabinets, new toilets and plumbing fixtures, new lighting, and all tubs and surrounds were refinished. We added a new water heater, serviced the HVAC unit, and refinished the concrete in the garage because it was previously painted poorly. On the exterior we power washed the whole house and pool area, added a new privacy fence, and finish landscaping was done. The estimated renovation costs were $35k.

So now, let’s break down the HGTV numbers compared to the ACTUAL numbers.

HGTV Way

Purchase Price: $117,100
Renovation Costs: $38,766.07
Realtor Fees/Closing Costs (These are rarely included): $10,955.71
Sold Price: $201,000

Profit: $34,178.22 w/ closing costs and $45,133.93 w/o

ACTUAL Expenses

Purchase Price: $117,100
Purchase Closing Costs: $2,691.58
Utilities (water, electricity, pool care, lawn mowing): $590.38
Repair Costs: $38,766.07
Before and after photos: $150
Staging: $1,500
Cleaner: $320
Repairs before closing: $1,105
Closing Costs: $10,955.71
Sold Price: $201,000

ACTUAL Profit: $27,821.26

Conclusion

Now, don’t get me wrong. I am not complaining at all about an almost $28k profit on this project. I am both sharing our success story and trying to show all of you that what you see on TV is not really how this business goes. HGTV would have nearly doubled our profit margin when they show Sale Price – Purchase Price – Repairs (which is exactly what they showed on the one I watched most recently). I would love to say we made $45k profit on this flip but that just isn’t the case.

RISK – I am the one taking all the risk here. What would the profit margin be if this house sat on the market another 30 days and I had to lower the price $10k to get the house sold? What if I had to do that twice? If you are considering the possibility of getting into this business make sure you account for all of those soft costs that eat up your profit margin.

Here are a couple photos of the house when we got done:

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Gary SiverPro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Orange Park, FL · Member since 2014 · 180 posts · 83 votes
10y

I would also like to add that you need to look at the percentage of profit.  I might look at it differently than some people but this is my opinion. They are usually doing houses around $500,000 to make $50,000, 10% profit.  I would rather flip houses with an investment of $100,000 and make $20,000 for a 20% profit.

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  • Baltimore City, MD · Member since 2015 · 30 posts · 9 votes
    10y

    This looks beautiful! Really beautiful actually, I think I want to move to Florida next. Thanks for the real numbers. I can't wait until my first flip.

  • Real Estate Agent · Willowbrook, IL · Member since 2016 · 17 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Very helpful post, thank you for taking the time to lay out the numbers

  • Investor · Bushnell, FL · Member since 2016 · 456 posts · 224 votes
    10y

    Hello William, 

     I agree with you that not all the numbers are shown on so called reality shows. People have to remember that these shows are for entertainment. Yes, the people are real and the houses are real but they are also scripted. The one thing in your example that you left it was your timeline. Time is money to, also interest if using hard money or any loan for that matter. Not a lot of flippers have their own money. Thank you for shedding some light on this .. This business can chew you up and spit you out if you let it. Don't let it! 

    God Speed everyone

  • Gary SiverPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Orange Park, FL · Member since 2014 · 180 posts · 83 votes
    10y

    I would also like to add that you need to look at the percentage of profit.  I might look at it differently than some people but this is my opinion. They are usually doing houses around $500,000 to make $50,000, 10% profit.  I would rather flip houses with an investment of $100,000 and make $20,000 for a 20% profit.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    It also depends a lot on which HGTV show you are referring to . The larger scale flippers include many of the separate costs you have listed within a total number without showing the actual breakdown to the viewers. Additionally it is often the case that one of the flippers is also a licenced real estate agent and the scale of their business reduces may of their costs.

  • Investor / Wholesaler · Nashville, TN · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 667 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed  

    Great point, sorry about that.  This was one of my joint ventures so I put up about $5k of my cash and my investor/partner put up the rest of the money.  We split the profits 50/50 so in my case, the money costs were just over $14k.  The timeline was 5 months from purchase to closing.  Had I used hard money (I have that lined up at 2pts and 12% plus some fees) my money costs would have been just over $11k plus some fees.  Reward would have been slightly higher in this case but risk would have changed for me.  However, if I used the private money I have at 6-10% for this project the money costs only would have been around $6,500 (10%).   Lots of ways to find money for these projects but I totally agree that these costs can eat away at your profits VERY quickly.  

  • Investor / Wholesaler · Nashville, TN · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 667 votes
    10y

    @Gary Siver

    I agree, I have found that out the hard way on some houses. If you stay around the median home price the buyer pool is much greater but the profit margin (in dollars not ROI) tends to be smaller too. The risk on the higher priced houses is greater but the potential home runs are there too. Risk and reward go hand and hand, I look at ROI on all the projects to ensure they make sense. In this case, I made just over $14k on $5k in 5 months so I was happy with that.

  • Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2016 · 17 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    The shows can certainly be misleading.  It seems like no matter what goes wrong, they still end up making a serious profit.

    They also do not show the carrying costs involved with properties that take months to sell (ex: insurance, HOA, financing, etc). Did you incur these carrying costs in addition to the expenses listed above?

  • Investor / Wholesaler · Nashville, TN · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 667 votes
    10y

    @Ryan Sweeney

    I included insurance with the purchase closing costs, this is typically $1,200 per year for my properties. There were no HOA dues with this one and I discussed the financing piece in a comment after someone pointed out that I had conveniently left that out (much appreciated).

  • Bulawayo, Zimbabwe · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 253 votes
    10y

    Thanks for sharing the real numbers

  • Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @William Allen

    Wow, I wish I could find a cosmetic flip for 60% of ARV in South FL! I may have to start playing in your sandbox, lol! Nice job on the rehab.

  • Investor · Port Saint Lucie, FL · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    Thanks for the breakdown with the real numbers. Did you have any problems with the pool? I am leery of a house with a pool because it seems it could get expensive if any structural problems come up.
  • Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 17 votes
    10y

    beautiful flip! Thank you for sharing the actuals too. I know my area would be closer to 25k too, not 100k!

  • Investor / Wholesaler · Nashville, TN · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 667 votes
    10y

    @Chad U.  Most of our deals are wholesales now so come on over, I could use more good buyers!

    @Derek O.

    I had to patch a few holes in the liner and pay for high energy and water bills.  I also had about $500 in equipment repair to do but nothing major.  I am always worried about pools too but in my area they really increase the sale price and reduce the time on market.  I have a couple at my rentals too and wish I didn't.  

    You should see the pool at the house we are buying next week!  Wow, that thing is in bad shape to say the least...

    @Debbie G.

    Thank you!

  • Investor · Fort Walton Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 568 posts · 966 votes
    10y

    @William Allen Great job on the rehab and congratulations on another successful deal!

    Thank you for including all the numbers a lot of people overlook. The rewards can be lucrative but there the risk is definitely there. I recently met some hobbyists who tried to flip houses and are trying to unload one they had to abandon mid-rehab with no meat left on the bone for other investors to pick up.

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