Need urgent -Atlanta watershed - $5000 bill - they shut service

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Need urgent -Atlanta watershed - $5000 bill - they shut service

Paolo Ruggieri
Lender · USA · Member since 2015 · 212 posts · 53 votes

All,

I recently purchase and rented 3 properties. in all 3 cases I tenant left after some time and I had to turn water in my name... when bill came was outrageous: $1000-$3000 each bill. Almost $6000 in total. In all 3 properties I know there was a issue with prior tenant water bill: in one case tenant has been delinquent, in the other case tenant used a stolen meter, in the third case apperantly meter was magically on physically, but in the system it was off.

I had a plumber going in to investigate leaks. While he did find mutiple leaks (toilets, gaskets misssing etc), he told me that none of them was worth more than $300 dollar bill... 

Unfortunantly he also told me that City of Atlanta adjusts bills for burst pipes in the front yard because they can't be detected, but will not adjust bills for leaks in the house, because they consider them negligence, as they can be seen.

In my case I suspect the city is charging me for what the tenants owed, but I am not 100% sure.

They sent me a letter that if I do not pay by Thursday Jan 5th, they will shut water off. As soon as I received the bills I filed for a dispute, over the phone they told me that I do not have to pay the bill till the dispute is resolved, but now they sent me a letter saying that they are shutting utility off... crazy.

I am planning to go tomorrow to negotiate... however, I have had horrrible expericnes with them so far and found out that typically they do not tell me what is going on (not sure if they hide things, or if the people at the window are not knowledgeble, or if they just do not care)... and there is not much hope unless you know someone.

A friend of mine (another investor) told me that he got a $64,000 (yes you are reading it right... $64,000 bill) that they would not reduce... he contacted the news and once they found out it was investigated by the media they immidiatly cancelled the bill. Now in his case was more evident and it was a "better story" for the media then my billls.

I need to go tomorrow because they wrote that they day after tomorrow they will shut off the service. Please let me know any word of wisdom you might have... specifically let me know if you went through the same thing and how you resolved it... I truly appreciate!

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Michaela G.
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y

This is the current, 2016, Georgia code in Lexis Nexis

§ 36-60-17. Water supplier's cut off of water to property because of indebtedness of prior owner, occupant, or lessee prohibited; records required; statement of past due amounts; limited liens for unpaid charges for water, gas, sewerage service, or electricity


(a) No public or private water supplier shall refuse to supply water to any single or multifamily residential property for which water has been furnished through the use of a separate water meter for each residential unit on application of the owner or new tenant of such property because of the indebtedness of a prior owner, prior occupant, or prior lessee to the water supplier for water previously furnished to such property.

(b) For each new or current account to supply water, the public and private water suppliers shall maintain a record of identifying information on the applicant for the water service and shall seek reimbursement of unpaid charges for water service furnished initially from the person who incurred the charges.

(c) (1) Any real property owner or tenant, person having executed a contract for the purchase or occupancy of real property, attorney closing a real estate transaction for the purchase of real property, or lender considering the loan of funds to be secured by real property shall be entitled upon request to a statement from a public or private water supplier setting forth the amount of water charges currently and past due and any late charges and interest applicable for water supplied to such property. Such request shall:

(A) Be in writing;

(B) State the address of the real property for which water was supplied;

(C) Be delivered to the billing address of the public or private water supplier by certified mail, return receipt requested, statutory overnight delivery, or electronic means if electronic communication is permitted by such supplier; and

(D) State a return address or e-mail address to which the statement reflecting the moneys owed is to be directed.

(2) Any request transmitted by electronic means shall be considered received on the first business day following such transmission.

(3) The public or private water supplier shall furnish such statement to the requestor by certified mail, return receipt requested, statutory overnight delivery, or electronic means if electronic communication is provided by the requestor within ten business days of receipt of such request. Such supplier may charge a fee not to exceed $10.00 to provide the requested information.

(4) The failure of the public or private water supplier to provide such statement within such ten business day period shall:

(A) Cause any lien for unpaid charges provided by this Code section to be extinguished and to be of no force or effect as to the title acquired by the purchaser or lender, if any, and their respective successors and assigns in the transaction contemplated in connection with such request; and

(B) Prevent the public or private water supplier from denying water services to the new real property owner or tenant.

(5) The information specified in the public or private water supplier's statement shall be binding upon the public or private water supplier as of the date of the statement and for 30 days thereafter. When payment in full is tendered within such 30 day period, it shall extinguish any lien by operation of law which the public or private water supplier may have against such property.

(d) A public or private water supplier shall not impose a lien against real property to secure unpaid charges for water furnished unless the owner of such real property is the person who incurred the charges and shall not deny water services when such a lien has been extinguished.

(e) This Code section shall not apply to associations that are subject to Article 3 of Chapter 3 of Title 44 which supply water.

(f) A public or private supplier of gas, sewerage service, or electricity shall not impose a lien against real property to secure unpaid charges for gas, sewerage service, or electricity unless the owner of such real property is the person who incurred the charges.

Code 1981, § 36-60-17, enacted by Ga. L. 1994, p. 1957, § 1; Ga. L. 2016, p. 240, § 1/SB 206.

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  • Dan Pepitone
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 16 votes
    9y

    I have had to deal with this same thing but on a smaller level.  Unlike DeKalb Watershed, in Atlanta, if a tenant does not pay their bill and moves out the unpaid balance stays with the property.  I have gone back and forth with Atlanta watershed about this a number of times.  They told me the best thing to do is to call Atlanta watershed every few months to make sure the tenant is paying the bill.  This sound ridiculous, but I had a few different people tell me this...and that is what I have been doing.        

    1Reply
  • Paolo Ruggieri
    OP
    Lender · USA · Member since 2015 · 212 posts · 53 votes
    9y

    so ... once tenant left, you put water in your name they charged on your bill his unpaid balance?

    0Reply
  • Dan Pepitone
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 16 votes
    9y

    Yes, that's correct.  Really makes me rethink buying properties in Atlanta. 

    0Reply
  • Paolo Ruggieri
    OP
    Lender · USA · Member since 2015 · 212 posts · 53 votes
    9y

    did they tell you that?

    Is it legal?

    0Reply
  • Paolo Ruggieri
    OP
    Lender · USA · Member since 2015 · 212 posts · 53 votes
    9y

    did anyone try to contest it?did anyone have any success?

    0Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    actually, the water company is not allowed to put a lien on the property, if the owner didn't have control of the property during the time that the water usage occurred. It's a Georgia statue. Starts with 36 I think. It talks about Georgia utility provide

    Whenever they tried that on me I'd address a letter to their legal Sept, with a copy of the law etc and the charge disappeared

    7Reply
  • Paolo Ruggieri
    OP
    Lender · USA · Member since 2015 · 212 posts · 53 votes
    9y

    thank you... so the bill just reduced to a normal level? They are not putting a lien just yet, but I have huge high bills in my name which will soon turn into something bad if I don ornate address them.

    Michaela, When you write "legal Sept" , what do you mean for "sept"?

    Thank you!

    Paolo

    0Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    This is the current, 2016, Georgia code in Lexis Nexis

    § 36-60-17. Water supplier's cut off of water to property because of indebtedness of prior owner, occupant, or lessee prohibited; records required; statement of past due amounts; limited liens for unpaid charges for water, gas, sewerage service, or electricity


    (a) No public or private water supplier shall refuse to supply water to any single or multifamily residential property for which water has been furnished through the use of a separate water meter for each residential unit on application of the owner or new tenant of such property because of the indebtedness of a prior owner, prior occupant, or prior lessee to the water supplier for water previously furnished to such property.

    (b) For each new or current account to supply water, the public and private water suppliers shall maintain a record of identifying information on the applicant for the water service and shall seek reimbursement of unpaid charges for water service furnished initially from the person who incurred the charges.

    (c) (1) Any real property owner or tenant, person having executed a contract for the purchase or occupancy of real property, attorney closing a real estate transaction for the purchase of real property, or lender considering the loan of funds to be secured by real property shall be entitled upon request to a statement from a public or private water supplier setting forth the amount of water charges currently and past due and any late charges and interest applicable for water supplied to such property. Such request shall:

    (A) Be in writing;

    (B) State the address of the real property for which water was supplied;

    (C) Be delivered to the billing address of the public or private water supplier by certified mail, return receipt requested, statutory overnight delivery, or electronic means if electronic communication is permitted by such supplier; and

    (D) State a return address or e-mail address to which the statement reflecting the moneys owed is to be directed.

    (2) Any request transmitted by electronic means shall be considered received on the first business day following such transmission.

    (3) The public or private water supplier shall furnish such statement to the requestor by certified mail, return receipt requested, statutory overnight delivery, or electronic means if electronic communication is provided by the requestor within ten business days of receipt of such request. Such supplier may charge a fee not to exceed $10.00 to provide the requested information.

    (4) The failure of the public or private water supplier to provide such statement within such ten business day period shall:

    (A) Cause any lien for unpaid charges provided by this Code section to be extinguished and to be of no force or effect as to the title acquired by the purchaser or lender, if any, and their respective successors and assigns in the transaction contemplated in connection with such request; and

    (B) Prevent the public or private water supplier from denying water services to the new real property owner or tenant.

    (5) The information specified in the public or private water supplier's statement shall be binding upon the public or private water supplier as of the date of the statement and for 30 days thereafter. When payment in full is tendered within such 30 day period, it shall extinguish any lien by operation of law which the public or private water supplier may have against such property.

    (d) A public or private water supplier shall not impose a lien against real property to secure unpaid charges for water furnished unless the owner of such real property is the person who incurred the charges and shall not deny water services when such a lien has been extinguished.

    (e) This Code section shall not apply to associations that are subject to Article 3 of Chapter 3 of Title 44 which supply water.

    (f) A public or private supplier of gas, sewerage service, or electricity shall not impose a lien against real property to secure unpaid charges for gas, sewerage service, or electricity unless the owner of such real property is the person who incurred the charges.

    Code 1981, § 36-60-17, enacted by Ga. L. 1994, p. 1957, § 1; Ga. L. 2016, p. 240, § 1/SB 206.

    7Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Paolo Ruggieri:

    thank you... so the bill just reduced to a normal level? They are not putting a lien just yet, but I have huge high bills in my name which will soon turn into something bad if I don ornate address them.

    Michaela, When you write "legal Sept" , what do you mean for "sept"?

    Thank you!

    Paolo

     typo - dept.

    2Reply
  • Kalimah Jenkins
    Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2014 · 226 posts · 97 votes
    9y
    I would dispute it and get an attorney if necessary. You may also want to get your title company involved. Only parties in the chain of title can create an event that will trigger a lien. I understand that Atlanta tries this all of the time but I don't believe it's legal.
    2Reply
  • Eric Cross
    Investor · Dacula, GA · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 12 votes
    9y
    Paolo, This has been a problem and I'm unsure of the final results , but google channel 2 news or 11alive "dekalb/Atlanta water bill"and see what they did to resolve, or what others had to contend with.
    0Reply
  • Joshua Feit
    Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 240 posts · 130 votes
    9y

    Let me tell you something about Atlanta Watershed -- Atlanta Watershed is the WORST. Every property, every time, they find a way to stick landlords with ridiculous bills.

    On two of my properties, there are some outstanding tenant bills (in their name) in amounts of 10K and 5K.

    @Michaela G. is right. There is a GA statute that won't let them turn these debts into liens against the property. I hired an attorney and he verified this was true.

    But ATL doesn't give a s&%# -- They threaten to do it anyway.

    They're the worst Jerry, the WORST!

    1Reply
  • Rick Baggenstoss
    Developer · Decatur, GA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    As of 2015 the city can no longer put a lien against a property for unpaid water or utility unless the unpaid bill belonged to the actual owner of said property. Liens can no longer be placed against a property for a bill belonging to a tenant. This is per Code 11 Section 36-60-17. See the following on georgia.gov website. http://www.legis.ga.gov/legislation/20152016/158762.pdf

    You may be shocked to hear that the local municipality may still put a lien to be paid at closing unless you follow the proper procedures to have the lien removed from the property.

    3Reply
  • Thomas Bertling
    Culver City, CA · Member since 2017 · 1 post · 0 votes
    9y

    I am struggling with the same issue in Ohio. The property I purchased has unpaid bills from tenants prior to my purchase. The water company is refusing to turn on water until I pay theses bills.

    Does anyone know if there is a similar section code in Ohio law that I can refer to?

    Thanks

    0Reply
  • Bob B.
    Investor · Jasper GA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Paolo Ruggieri

    What happened?

    0Reply
  • Sherry K. Finch
    Atlanta, GA · Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    I think we have a class action suit possibility here against the City Of Atlanta Watershed Dept for blackmailing landlords into paying bills they don't owe, even when the water company knows they are bluffing because they are fully aware that  it is illegal under Georgia law to charge bills to one entity which were  incurred by another.

     I am in process of researching it because they almost stung me.

      Last month, January 2018, we were to sell our house but  I was notified by the closing attorney that there was a nearly $3000 water bill lien on our house because we had a tenant living here for a few years who did not pay their water bill.  We had moved back into our home about 2 years ago and were never notified that there was a problem until we were just a few days before closing.  They had us over a barrel and I authorized payment so we could close.

    Michaela G., I must thank you most heartily for your post on this site because when I saw the citation of Ga Code you gave, I was able to call a halt to the Watershed's bluff simply by pointing it out to them. Guess what.  They say, "ooops, sorry, we will take that off."  But if I didn't know, as many many of us property owners do NOT know, I would have been ripped off by $3000.  

    If you have paid to get the water turned on for a new tenant..or paid at closing to sell your house, Let me know to add you to the list of complainants and we will see about restitution and maybe penalties for fraud.

    1Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y
    Count me in. I just sold a property and they stuck me with an exact 2400 bill from someone that sold the property in 2000. I bought in 2009 and have a copy of their payoff to the closing attorney stating thst nothing outstanding. They then put a lien on my property in 2014. Even gor the city's attorneys involved and they didn't budge. I ended up paying and am trying to figure out how to take them to small claims court
    Originally posted by @Sherry K. Finch:

    I think we have a class action suit possibility here against the City Of Atlanta Watershed Dept for blackmailing landlords into paying bills they don't owe, even when the water company knows they are bluffing because they are fully aware that  it is illegal under Georgia law to charge bills to one entity which were  incurred by another.

     I am in process of researching it because they almost stung me.

      Last month, January 2018, we were to sell our house but  I was notified by the closing attorney that there was a nearly $3000 water bill lien on our house because we had a tenant living here for a few years who did not pay their water bill.  We had moved back into our home about 2 years ago and were never notified that there was a problem until we were just a few days before closing.  They had us over a barrel and I authorized payment so we could close.

    Michaela G., I must thank you most heartily for your post on this site because when I saw the citation of Ga Code you gave, I was able to call a halt to the Watershed's bluff simply by pointing it out to them. Guess what.  They say, "ooops, sorry, we will take that off."  But if I didn't know, as many many of us property owners do NOT know, I would have been ripped off by $3000.  

    If you have paid to get the water turned on for a new tenant..or paid at closing to sell your house, Let me know to add you to the list of complainants and we will see about restitution and maybe penalties for fraud.

    2Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    Oh and the property changed hands 10 times between that owner selling in 2000 and me buying in 2009 (and I bet they told every closing attorney that there was nothing outstanding)

    I have all my proof for backup, because I had the title company involved, from my purchase in 2009. They were able to get all of the documentation. But they said that they can't be responsible, because the title agent was given in writing that there were no outstanding charges and this bill only was created in 2014, 5 years after I bought.

    0Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    Anyone else that was settled with a bill that was not theirs and they were forced to pay? 

    I'm trying to get a number of people together to make something happen. I have 2 situations right now, that are $ 2400 and $ 4800 that I was forced to pay, as I only found out 2 days before closing, when I was selling. They were not my bills. 

    Someone else in my neighborhood was forced to pay a 2k bill after she had bought her house - bill from a previous owner and they would not turn the water on for her unless she paid. 

    Those of you who have money outstanding, that was not theirs to pay and who didn't get anywhere with watershed - contact me

    0Reply
  • Sherry K. Finch
    Atlanta, GA · Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    Michaela G, I was successful in getting the waterbill off my property by calling WSBTV reporter (who turned out to be no help at all except for the threat of using him seemed to get attention) and sending a letter demanding a copy of the "Lien" against my property since there was no recorded FIFA according to the country records.  In other words, they actually did not file a FIFA (apparently because it would be illegal for them to do so) so when you formally request a copy of the lien they have to backtrack.  The person to contact is Karen Page, Office of Financial Administration.

      I think things get murkey because many apartment owners include the water in their rental agreements so they really ARE responsible for the bill; individuals like you and me who rent homes and have tenants pay their own bills are NOT responsible. I think this is why I got no sympathy from R. Belcher--I understood only later, from his comments to me, that his impression was that landlords always provide water --he must  only have personal experience renting apartments/condo himself.  If you contact him, make sure he understands the distinction.

    1Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    @Sherry K. Finch , thank you very much for those names. I did sent a message to Richard Belcher just now , but only for the case where they've stiffed me for a previous owner's lien. Let's see, if he gets back to me at all. 

    So far I haven't been able to find Karen Page, but I just prepared a 'Claim for Damages' form, which has to be submitted as a requirement, before I'm legally allowed to file a suit against the city. Hope it wakes them up. 

    0Reply
  • Sherry K. Finch
    Atlanta, GA · Member since 2018 · 3 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    I put Ms Page's number in the post for you, but the site wouldn't allow either phone numbers or email addresses, so I had to take it out.  Here is my contact info, I will try to embed it in such a way that the computer won't recognize.  Send me a pvt mssg at  firstnamelastname55atattdotnet

    1Reply
  • Angie McLean
    Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    i am an investor in low income parts of Atlanta.    i have purchased boarded up 3  houses that were boarded up since 2009 to 2014 when i purchased them, whose water bill was around $20,000 at closing and the bank who sold me the properties had to pay at closing, i was sure this was a scam the watershed inflicts on banks who want to unload properties as banks don't have the resources to dispute outrageous water liens put on foreclosed houses and they just need to get the houses off of their books.    

    i am happy to read these messages as city water has really stuck it to me.  last year i was forced to pay a tenants water bill of $3200.  i was livid.   Apparently tenants are quickly  learning that they can screw over landlords as their  water will never be shut off so my tenant did not pay his bill for almost 3 years and i had no knowledge.  i had no way to know  as the tenants bill does not get mailed to me, until the tenant moved out and watershed told me i was responsible as the owner of the house to pay the bill or they threatened to put a lien on my property.  watershed told me they do not pursue tenants even though the bill is under their name, watershed told me it is much easier for them to make the owner of the house pay than to try to pursue a tenant.   when i asked city of atlanta watershed  for a copy of my tenants bill which i am responsible for paying, city told me they cannot give me a copy of the bill or disclose any information to me about the bill as it is not under my name.  furthermore they gave me a discount on the $3200 bill if i agreed to pay $300 for a bill from the previous owner from 5 years before i even owned the house !    they said they wanted to clean up their records so they would discount my current bill if i agreed to pay a bill from a different owner from years ago!    

    now i am being charged $11,000 for a bill for another of my investment properties as i have had water bills inconsistent since 2015.  i have fixed 3 underground leaks, i do not believe the issue is leaks as 8 plumbers cannot find a leak,  i believe it is a faulty meter or simply just a scam to charge me for water, but watershed  are insistent that their equipment is not faulty. 

    i have been through hell with this ongoing issue for 3 years, almost to the point i will not invest in any more houses as watershed has too much power and landlords are stripped of any rights to fight back.     i sat in front of a panel of 7 watershed representatives last friday at a faciitliy off of of 17th street and i put up a heck of a fight with my inconsistent bills and such a large water bill for a house that was empty for part of the time the bills were over $1500 a month, and they denied my request to reduce my bill by any substantial amount, they took off about $600.  i am strong but i almost broke down crying as i thought they would be reasonable after all i have been through with 42 calls and 8 visits to their office.   i have paid $300 a month for my bill on auto pay and still they would not reduce me ridiculously high balance of $11,000.     now i have to sue them or maybe call a news team as i cannot afford to pay them the $11,000 water bill.  there is NO WAY that this house used that much water.    please contact me if you want to start a class action law suit or give me any advice as to how to fight the bureaucrats.  i feel like i am dealing with the corrupt politics of a 3rd world country and need some encouragement and guidance from those of you who have been through something similar.   

    thank you!  

      Angie 

    0Reply
  • Michaela G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    Am dealing with their legal Sept on 2 claims right now.  Before you file any lawsuit,  you'll have to file claim with the city within 6 months of occurance. I'm about to take them to small claims court,  which you can as well for 11k.

    0Reply
  • Angie McLean
    Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    hi Michaela

      Well I guess city water got me for the $3200 as I was not aware that it they could not put a lien on my house as they threatened so I paid them and it’s been a year so it’s past the 6 month deadline.  

    However I now owe $11,000 for my water bill at my duplex located on Lois Place NW near where they are building the new Bellwood park.  

    The house has had sporadic water bills since 2015 when I purchased it and I’ve called so many plumbers to figure out why.  Some plumbers said they found underground leaks and charged me $1700.  Others found nothing and blamed the meter.  After my last underground leak the bill is finally stable about $260 a month.  Water company adjusted my $17,000 bill to $11,000 and I sat before an intimidating panel last Friday and they gave me a 

    “ Courtesy” adjustment of $900.

    The duplex had foreclosed and been boarded up from 2009 to 2015 so perhaps the pipes leaked underground and that’s what caused the water bill to be so high but my contractor doesn’t think so as there would of been signs of water flooding on the ground   It’s a mystery but I’m so pissed if I have to pay $10k as this is a chunk of my very very hard earned profit  I’ve had 4 evictions this far and they all trashed my place costing me so much money because they lived like animals   They fooled me they were so nice   I’m hoping this good improves quickly now  

     My bill is still over $10,000 and my last option is to go to superior court.  

    Does anyone have any experience with taking city of Atlanta watershed to court? I don’t know if I even have a strong case because how the water was consumed is still a mystery. City says I used the water.  I say no way that much water was used on a duplex that was vacant some of the months that the bill was exceedingly high and there were no signs of leaks at those times so I say it’s faulty readings on faulty equipment. 

    0Reply
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