Hawaii - Oahu Investing

Hawaii - Oahu Investing

New to Real Estate · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 11 votes

I'm looking to get started doing real estate investing in Oahu. I've never done real estate investing previously but I've spent a considerable amount of time reading books (6 and counting), listening to the bigger pockets podcast (100+ episodes watched), and consuming other content on the topic of real estate investing. I mention it just so people respond knowing that I'm a beginner but that I've spent a considerable amount of time trying to learn prior to coming to the forum for information.

My post is a bit long so let me state from the outset I'm trying to check my investigation against the experience of people doing this on Oahu. I'm also looking for any insights people are willing to share into Condo and SFH investing on Oahu.

From the investigation I've done thus far it seems that across the island the median days on market is quite high by comparison to where I'm from in Sacramento or the national average.

Oahu - 60 Days
Honolulu - 78.5 Days
National - 34 Days
Sacramento - 9 Days

Escrow/Closing times are 40-60 days which is much higher on the island than the mainland - my friend closed 21 days conventional on a house here in Sacramento last week. Property taxes are some of the lowests of all 50 states but HOAs are almost unavoidable island wide, except for homes in certain areas. Generally speaking you're much more likely to pay an HOA fee than not. HOA fees can range from $200 to over $1000 per month. While it's not as common as it used to be it you still need to look out for Leaseholds.

Cash-flowing properties can be found but when it comes to renting these properties out its not as simply as buy and list. You really need to pick the right place, have good marketing of your property, and it has to be what people are looking for otherwise your property is going to sit. Tenant turning has a higher cost than would normally exist on the mainland because things move more slowly on Oahu. As it relates to STRs you can only do that in very specific zoning otherwise it's been outlawed and the fines are quite high for people who try to skirt the law and get caught.

I've been unable to find reliable information about how much more an Oahu rehab on a BRRRR or flip is going to cost vs. Sacramento for equivalent square footage (say a 800sqft condo). I'd imagine it's higher just because of the cost to get materials to Hawaii. I've also been unable to find a reliable way to estimate how much longer a rehab would take in Hawaii, if at all. It seems everything is slower in Hawaii.

Flips seem to be a good opportunity on the island. At 70% LTV it seems like you'll see significantly fewer opps than if you were at 80% LTV but connections are everything for this. If you don't have significant capital or good lending connections you're not likely to do any SFH flips. Holding costs are likely to be much higher than most places because of the speed of sale and escrow on Oahu. Condo flips can be done but are more tricky because HOAs often have improvement regulations that might make your renovation ideas impossible or there could be a long and painstaking process to get any improvements approved (assuming they are improved at all). There's quite a bit more leg work to do to ensure your plans and ideas will work.

Lending can get tricky if you are buying in a condo and a certain percentage of the units are not owner occupied. This can also present possible issues after purchase when you want to list your condo for rent but the building only allows a certain percentage to be rented. You might not be able to rent a unit out if the max threshold has been hit. It can also be an issue when you want to sell.

That's about what I've gathered from the limited research I've done on Oahu investing. I didn't mention anything about MFH because I lack the funding and connections to attempt that currently. Any and all corrections are welcome and any additional insight is appreciated.

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Real Estate Agent · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2019 · 60 posts · 40 votes
5y

Hey @Nathaniel Garcia, I also used to live in Japan and now live on Oahu. But I do my cashflow investing out of state for many of the reasons you already mentioned. I have been involved in a few flips here which can work if you can purchase properties low enough. Let me know if I can help in journey!

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  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2018 · 335 posts · 251 votes
    5y

    Hey Nathanial! Love your research and enthusiasm! You remind me of where I was 2 years ago lol. It sounds like you are pretty spot on with most things. I think the DOM sounds a little high, but Im not  realtor and havent kept up to date on the current statistics. Good luck in getting started!!

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Normally 3-6 months is the break point between a sellers or buyers market. We are definitely in a sellers market.

    Hawaii like California are primary markets which are NOT ideal for cashflow investing.

    It could appreciate but I consider that gambling. Sophisticated investors invest on cashflow where the rents exceed the mortgage plus expenses (and enough money to pay for professional property manage to do our dirty work).

    Sophisticated investors look at the Rent-to-Value Ratio and look for at least 1% or more to be able to cashflow after expenses. 

    There is too much unsophisticated money here from international folks or investors. If you are looking for cashflow Hawaii is not going to work.

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y
  • New to Real Estate · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @Lane Kawaoka Thanks for the feedback and the link to the other post. I'd read through that post and a few others prior to posting myself. As a general rule of thumb it's clear that cashflow opps aren't readily available in Hawaii.

    My plan at this point is to find a break even condo to hold, improve, and house hack. I think that flips are going to be a good opportunity to manage some rehab projects and create some additional capital for myelf. Eventually, I want to buy and hold some SFH that I've BRRRR'd. I've also been investigating Leaseholds for cashflow and flips.

    I also hope to network with people and partner on some projects that I wouldn't have all the necessary capital for.

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    The international rich investor put their money into Hawaiian real estate to park their money while the investor put their investment in California including Sacramento for appreciation (with the hope it's catching up Bay Area). Investing in Hawaii is much much more difficult than in Sacramento because the real economy is primarily tourism while in CA/Sacramento is mostly tech/private sector, not to mention high HOA and fee simple/leasehold issue. Having said that, when someone from Sacramento tries to invest in Hawaii it's like an investor that's trying to do a more difficult job.

    In Sacramento/CA you can still cashflow from the outskirt of the city mostly in the lower-end neighborhood. The problem with Sacramento is everybody in Bay Area thinks the same, while they don't want to invest in OOS, they will invest next city which is Sacramento. The next city waiting for appreciation from NorCal investor or SoCal is perhaps Bakersfield.

  • New to Real Estate · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @Carlos Ptriawan I get it. Sacramento has some really nice appreciation potential and even cashflow in the right areas. For the time being I want to put my money where I am living because I can benefit from leveraging a primary residence at 3% and doing some of the labor myself (paint, flooring, drywall, plumbing, etc). I fully appreciate that Hawaii, specifically Oahu, is going to be a much more challenging venture than Sacramento. I also realize the margins are most likely slimmer. I've lived in Sacramento and it's suburbs 26+ years. At some point I'll put my knowledge of the area to good use. 

    I didn't pick Oahu because I think it's the best market in the country to do investing or because it's easier than most places. I picked it because for my own personal reasons it's where I want to live and I'm committed to learning and succeeding in that market. I had considered Sacramento, Dallas, Detroit, and Cincinnati but I knew I wouldn't be happy living in those places right now. I've realized investing in your happiness before you try to invest in something else will go along way towards making those investments a success. Obviously you need to make wise and sound investments but when things get hard, markets fluctuate, and the best laid plans are tested having invested in yourself will go a long way to ensuring you endure, survive and come out the otherside better than when you started.

    Oahu here I come. 

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    I had the same planning before. Actually, I already contacted a real estate agent in West Oahu. I'm interested in the area near Waianae. But I no longer consider it as "investment property" but more for "vacation rentals" where I wouldn't care much about cash-flow.

    I know my happiness is next to the beach ha ha :)

  • New to Real Estate · Oahu, HI · Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 8 votes
    5y

    @Nathaniel Garcia Good luck to you! If you really want to move to Hawaii, then come on down. It's the best place to live with the best beaches. And I also think the DOM is a bit high. I agree with Daniel above, I've been noticing houses flying off the MLS in less than 30 days. Also, I think your strategy of getting a house with a low down payment, then doing a live in flip and house hack could help your numbers out. If anything it should build you some extra capital that you can use for another flip. But I also feel that Lane is right. Cashflow in Hawaii is not ideal. I feel flipping houses in Hawaii makes more sense, especially with the type of appreciation we've been seeing here.

  • New to Real Estate · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @Keola Nishikawa I'm excited for the change of pace in life and the challenge of investing on Oahu. Life in Japan has been good but Hawaii seems like a great next step. 

    I get it conventional cashflow investing like you'd find in Cleveland or Detroit doesn't exist on Oahu. It's not a place where it's cheaper to own than to rent and as a result the math is upside down. I'm looking for debt coverage. I'd consider net zero on a property to be a win. Appreciation in places like Hawaii and California are the play.

    I think there is a unique opportunity with Leaseholds in zones that allow STR could be a cashflow play. I realize most people want to stay away from LH properties given the unknowns and variables. It's not my current focus but I'll be looking into it more.

    The live in flip / house hack is an approach I'm going to take to get going and build up the capital to have what I need for bigger projects. Networking with people is also something I want to do so I can get experience working together on projects with people and being involved in things I couldn't do solo.

  • Attorney · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2016 · 184 posts · 145 votes
    5y

    Hey @Nathaniel Garcia - Welcome to BP. Wanted to send a hello from another Japan based US investor.

    I don't invest in Hawaii, but my partner and friend is based there - look him up: @Kiley N.

    I'd love to chat about investing from Japan.  I'm interested in hearing our thoughts, and of course happy to share any of my experiences that may be helpful.  

    As I've just told a couple of other new BPers - if you're in Tokyo, you might consider looking into the Tokyo BiggerPockets monthly face-to-face meetup.  You should be able to find information on the Meetups app.  I attended frequently when I lived in Tokyo (I'm now out in Western Japan), and it was always very productive for me.

    Hope to chat soon.

    - Dave

  • Real Estate Agent · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2019 · 60 posts · 40 votes
    5y

    Hey @Nathaniel Garcia, I also used to live in Japan and now live on Oahu. But I do my cashflow investing out of state for many of the reasons you already mentioned. I have been involved in a few flips here which can work if you can purchase properties low enough. Let me know if I can help in journey!

  • New to Real Estate · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @David Gotsill Thanks for the welcome. I'd love to connect at some point via Zoom if you have the time to hear about how you do what you do from Japan. My goal is to get back to Japan within the next 5 years and continue investing from there. Are you currently doing investing into Japanese real estate or US based investing exclusively?

    I found the real estate market to be very intimidating in Japan. The costs and complicaitons of earthquakes, land vs building values, the decreasing population deflating demand for housing, and the level of Japanese required to even read and understand basic rules and regulations. 

    Does Kiley invest in Hawaii?

  • New to Real Estate · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @John Rankin I'm always interested in learning about the market, best places to buy, contractors, etc. I've been researching Leaseholds and how to make them work for cashflow if they are within the right zoning. They aren't my focus right now but I do have some interest. I can't tell how much competition there is for these properties by comparison to Fee Simple. They clearly are a financing challenge and have more cost/risk variables than fee simple properties.

    Are you actively investing in Hawaii currently or is your focus elsewhere? 

  • Real Estate Agent · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2019 · 60 posts · 40 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Nathaniel Garcia:

    @John Rankin I'm always interested in learning about the market, best places to buy, contractors, etc. I've been researching Leaseholds and how to make them work for cashflow if they are within the right zoning. They aren't my focus right now but I do have some interest. I can't tell how much competition there is for these properties by comparison to Fee Simple. They clearly are a financing challenge and have more cost/risk variables than fee simple properties.

    Are you actively investing in Hawaii currently or is your focus elsewhere? 

    I'm more active out of state but still keep a pretty good pulse on what is happening locally. There is a group of local investors who are all very supportive. Join the Keco Exchange group on Facebook if you haven't already. My mother in law is actually trying to sell a leasehold condo for cheap right now. It's not zoned for STR though.

  • Attorney · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2016 · 184 posts · 145 votes
    5y

    @Nathaniel Garcia - I agree regarding investing in Japan.  I do invest here, but absent some unbelievable, lottery-winning-like opportunity, I don't think I'll take on any new deals in Japan.  Going forward it will be US-based deals only.  I currently focus on investments, with a few partners (met here, through BP), in Huntsville, AL.  

    I'm tied up with work for the next 2 weeks (I joined a Japanese crane manufacturing company, and I'm getting my crane operator's license), but after that let's def connect on zoom.  

  • New to Real Estate · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @David Gotsill That's exciting. Working using heavy machinery like that is exciting. Perhaps it runs more on the fine line of excitement / anxiety. Had I found a way to do real estate investing in Japan I would have tried a lot harder to get another visa to stay. Right now my best way back is career progression with my current job. In the meantime, I want to build up my investments so going back is even easier financially.

    I put a time slot on my calendar to follow up 03/22/21 with you here on BP. I look forward to connecting. I'm interested to hear what life's been like for you in western Japan.

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    Which area in Oahu is usually good for flips ? Is the contractor always busy there ? Is the contractor mostly local guys or someone that moves from mainland to Hawaii ?

  • New to Real Estate · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @Carlos Ptriawan Depends if you're doing condos or SFH. For condos it would seem that LH condos are best flipped in the Waikiki area assuming there are the right terms to that LH. For FS condos I think it would be a building to building evaluation. I'm sure a local agent could circle areas that would be most ideal but I'm sure it would be dependant on budget.

    For SFH Kailua would be great if you've got serious amounts of capital while Ewa Gentry, Ewa Beach, Waianae, Makaha are more approachable if you consider $400k+ approachable. 

  • Rental Property Investor · NJ · Member since 2019 · 43 posts · 14 votes
    5y

    @Nathaniel Garcia   

    If it's Kiley N. that I know he is currently investing in Huntsville.  Don't know if he has other areas he  is interested in.  Have you heard from him?  Let me know.

  • Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2019 · 21 posts · 6 votes
    5y

    Is the rental market that slow? In my years on Oahu, every time I went to apply for a rental there was always 3-4 people there with cash on hand to try to get it first & landlords could almost set their own prices.

  • Member since 2021 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    5y

    Hi Nathaniel,

    Great post. I was actually just reading the Oahu real estate report for January 2021 from the Honolulu Board of Realtors, and it says median DOM for SFHs as 9 days, and for condos as 18 days. I have attached a link here: https://issuu.com/advantagerea... 

    I apologize if you were talking about something else. In that case, please feel free to ignore! :)

  • Real Estate Agent · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2015 · 450 posts · 196 votes
    5y

    @Nathaniel Garcia I agree that the live in flip / house hack is a good place to start, since you would leverage the better terms of a primary occupant loan. I'm actually doing a live in flip right now with my condo in Makiki. Days on market are crazy low currently, due to lack of inventory, low rates, and increased demand. If rates go up, we might see some softening, but that's not happening currently. SFH's that are move-in ready are seeing many offers, well above asking price. Let me know if you want to chat more.

  • New to Real Estate · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 11 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Selina Hillenmayer:

    @Nathaniel Garcia   

    If it's Kiley N. that I know he is currently investing in Huntsville.  Don't know if he has other areas he  is interested in.  Have you heard from him?  Let me know.

    We're talking about the same person. I'm going to be catching up with him Monday while I'm visiting Oahu.

  • New to Real Estate · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 11 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Aaron Wisch:

    Is the rental market that slow? In my years on Oahu, every time I went to apply for a rental there was always 3-4 people there with cash on hand to try to get it first & landlords could almost set their own prices.

    I was talking about the sales market. I was incorrect about that. The data it is based on was from RedFin and Zillow which I was told by an agent is incorrect. Right now SFH are at 9 days and Condos are at 18 days island wide. There's about 1 month of SFH inventory about 3.5-3.8 months of Condo inventory. Things are moving fast.

  • New to Real Estate · Tokyo, Japan · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 11 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Sanjeev Gurung:

    Hi Nathaniel,

    Great post. I was actually just reading the Oahu real estate report for January 2021 from the Honolulu Board of Realtors, and it says median DOM for SFHs as 9 days, and for condos as 18 days. I have attached a link here: https://issuu.com/advantagerea... 

    I apologize if you were talking about something else. In that case, please feel free to ignore! :)

    Thanks for sending this over. Having these numbers handy is really useful. I've gone over these at a high level with some agents but I'm analytical so I like to drill into the details.

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