Looking into Berlin NH
Manchester, NH · Member since 2017 · 26 posts · 5 votes
Does anyone have any info on the rental market in Berlin NH? There are a lot of properties for sale there and I am wondering if it is worth looking into. I was thinking of calling the chamber of commerce to see if they can give me an idea.
Thanks
Denise Hoitt
Pittsfield was just recognized as the best small city in the country for the arts! My wife and I own 2 quads there and they have been solid so far. Let me know if you have any specific questions.
Denise I've been studying that area for about 3 months. I went to city data's website and (going from memory here) found that the RE values have been flat to declining over the last 15-20 years. That was a concern for me, especially when you look at the inventory, it seems like EVERYTHING is for sale. I also noted nearly every listing speaks to means of egress and that's rare. I suspect there must have been a recent change to zoning or building codes because listings seemed to tout the cost of adding a second means of egress had already been addressed.
Also from memory, population was flat to slightly declining. Also a bad sign. I couldn't seem to find data on occupancy rates. Also, I couldn't seem to find solid management companies, which for me is a must because of the distance. If there aren't good management companies it's a non starter for me.
Those were my negatives, the positives are obvious - we can buy two families for the price of a 2012 Corolla!!!!
Beyond my online research my next step was to start calling agents and asking questions about the market. Remax appears to be he biggest office. Depending on my discussion with the agents I was thinking of heading up for a weekend to see a bunch of properties and get to know the town. I'll let you know if I learn anything good, please do the same for me.
I grew up not far from there and when the paper mills closed the money all dried up. NH and the federal government built a couple prisons to bolster the economy but that has had little effect. Also there seemed to be a high amount of fires in buildings with utilites turned off. Odd that an empty building would catch fire. But yeah prices look tempting.
I have looked at Berlin houses online before as well. I was, of course, tempted by the asking prices for both singles or multis. But, I also worried about why are the home prices so low? When I looked into it, like @Brett C. was saying, appreciation potential appears minimal; even more so than most places in the slow growing and aging state of New Hampshire. The Berlin population looks like it peaked in 1930 and has more-or-less been dropping ever since (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin,_New_Hampshire). Many of the biggest employers are various forms of the government and average income is relatively low for NH (https://www.nhes.nh.gov/elmi/products/cp/profiles-htm/berlin.htm) - telling me there are few good jobs for ambitious young people who could fill your rental.
But, if you are OK with risking flat-line/depreciation in housing values in exchange for decent cash-flow prospects it may be a good choice.
Although, I imagine that an important detail to find out is how easily homes rent in the area. Is there a lot of vacancy or is it hard to find renters that can afford to keep making payments on time in Berlin, NH? Myself, I don't know.
Declining economy area, mills are moving out if they have not left already. I have a friend who lives there. He bought a property for $65,000 twelve years ago he put another $100,000 into the property during that time period. Rebuilt the house top to bottom, landscaped, paved etc. The property is now evaluated at $72,000. So you have an area with definite depreciation.
2016 Tax Rate ($39.19 per Thousand) and is supposed to be going up.
If you want to get into low income, and section 8 housing it may be good place to go.
I think I've said this before on a thread about Berlin, but there's really only one good consistent revenue source in Berlin for rentals, and that is section 8. Almost no one in this great state would choose to live in Berlin if they had almost any other option; it's just not an attractive place to live. Sky high property taxes (40/thousand is crazy, even for how low values are there), high crime (again in context of still being in the safest state in America), depressed values, no good jobs, depreciation, middle of nowhere etc. all combine for a place that few people want to live.
I've been told by multiple people that work with the DHHS that they have unwritten instructions to send section 8 people up to Berlin because the rents are so cheap section 8 can cover the whole rent (and it helps the state spend less than even housing them in the dumps of Frenchtown in Rochester). This "put 'em on a bus" strategy leads to an overabundance of section 8 tenants living in Berlin relative to the renting population as a whole.
Not that there aren't people making a lot of money from section 8, I'm sure, but it's an entirely different ballgame of wealth-building, so just keep that in mind.
Thanks for all the feed back! We want to move north and thought this would be a viable option. Looking like it is not. Looks like we need to take a trip and a look around.
Hell Brett C.
Stu and I went up to Berlin and saw 4 properties and took a walk around the town. As far as New England town's go, it's not a very pretty one. Definitely working class and down town did have vacancies for business. That being said, we did talk to one local shop keeper. She has been in Berlin for 5 years and the owner of the business the majority of his life. She said the business is doing very well ( nick knacks- new age stuff, incense).
She said that she has noticed an upward trend in the last 3 years of improvements and a few businesses that have moved into town. She also stated that there is huge community involvement. As an example she pointed out how nice the downtown looked as far as upkeep for common areas and planters at regular intervals with pretty flowers up and down the main street. She stated that the community businesses do that every year. As well as community events. The crime rate is very low to almost none existent.
Stu and I did notice several properties through out Berlin and down town being worked on for improvement. The realtor said the town is cracking down on landlords to maintain their property and if the building is abandoned and in bad repair they are bulldozing them and offering the lots to the neighbors. The realtor said in a lot of cases for cheap despite what the former owners owed in back taxes. Major industry right now are 2 prisons a small local hospital, a pellet plant and Walmart right over the town line in Gorham and if you are lucky enough to own property along an ATV trail. New business is moving in that will employee about 80 will be coming soon. Something to do with green houses and fruit. So these things are positives.
There is a local property management company. I have the name and number, if you want it PM me. I just gave them a call and the rents seem a bit crazy. He told me depending on the area and comps as well as what floor depends what the rent will be. He said a 1br goes for about $500-$600, 2br $600-$700 and 3br $600-$750. He also agreed that things have been on the upswing over the last several years and did mention that a company recently came in and bought a bunch of properties and rehabbed them and are currently renting them. He also mentioned at this time the vacancy rate is very low. Lots to consider given the market and where it seems to be going.
Also, as far as crime rate - realtor and business woman stated it was low to non-existent and Trulia has it rated as lowest in Coos county?
Something that has raised my curiosity as well. Why would a company come into town, buy up a bunch of properties rehab them and rent them out with the market the way it is in Berlin? I looked on Trulia, Zillow and CL and these apartments are renting out with all comps (heat, HW, Microwave, granit countertops, washer/dryer, stove, refrigerator) 1bdrm 900 sq ft 827 month & 2 bdrm $925 mo?
I have always seen Berlin as a kind of quick cash/timing type market (my personal opinion). For some reason, every once in a while, the prices spike. I really don't know what drives it, but I have seen it a few times over the last 15 years or so. I remember how many years ago (not sure of the year but within the early to mid-2000s) I toured about 10 properties up there with the intent to buy. You could buy a three-unit apartment building for 25k (everything was a foreclosure). If memory serves me, it had something to do with a mill downsizing for closing (I think there were two and then one and then none). I decided not to buy, and then a few years later I saw the same buildings on the MLS for over 200k. Then the properties dropped back down.
We decided to go ahead an buy a 4 unit. We are in the middle of all that now and hope to be up in Berlin by the end of July.
Pittsfield was just recognized as the best small city in the country for the arts! My wife and I own 2 quads there and they have been solid so far. Let me know if you have any specific questions.
Also looking into Pittsfield NH, the numbers seem solid and the properties cash flow well. I toured a duplex last week and as I drove through the town, it seemed run down but it has great proximity to concord. Anyone on here own rentals in Pittsfield and can add further insight to the tenants in town? To me, it seems much riskier but with risk comes great returns. Just don't know much about the tenant base.
Hi Alice,
I think the Berlin market is moving. Houses are selling. A lot of the buyers are vacationers wanting a second home. ATVing here is huge! We are thinking of purchasing another unit this summer.
It is the ******* of the universe!! 97% of all business i have conducted in Berlin has been nothing but heartburn and i have the paperwork to prove it. They should have put in some casinos instead of prisons drawn in some hi rollers instead of dysfunctional families. Good luck getting someone to show up on time or for that matter at all . Shoddy workers shoddy workmanship, plan on hiring someone from the lower 48 if you want something done right. Go to north Conway that's the closet form of civilization.
I guess it is all perspective. We have had no issues with contrators or the community. We are loving it up here
Old thread, but thought I'd add some perspective.
Right now, I think the ATV (since they can ride on city roads) and Snowmobile community is the primary upward potential for the Berlin area. That's a risk and is reflected in the MFH pricing. That being said, there's at least one out of state company that was formed and moved int o buy & rehab properties. They seem to have primarily stuck with the AirBNB model for most of them. Given the demographics, it's very possible that's the best option for that area at this time.
If you can find properties with covered/locked storage space, it may be interesting to look in to seasonal rentals. I know lots of folks from southern NH and MA travel up to that area frequently for ATV and Snowmobile activities. Being able to leave your equipment on site is a bonus...
Hey Denise - how is living up in Berlin still working out? We've AirBnB'd in Gorham a few time for Wildcat skiing, and it's just a beautiful area. Drove around Berlin a few times and walked around the downtown to see what's what...the downtown is sad but really interesting. A -lot- of potential and still a lot of pride.
Any future development of the Balsams will definitely help the area.
You're a in a four unit? How are your rents and your tenants?
Aaron
(Portland area)
Hello Aaron, Sorry for the late response.
We love it here in Berlin. We are in the process of looking for a second unit. They are being scooped up fast and good inventory is low. We found out from our home inspector that he has been working hard for out of state investors. One of his clients purchased 6 units.
I have noticed as well that prices have risen but only slightly. We just did a dance with a seller on a property. We knew going in that it needed some work and budgeted for what we could see but after the home inspection (I use HIP. Rich is awesome!) it needed more work than we could access funding for. So we went back to them and asked for a reduced price. They refused the offer so we walked away. I am hoping they rethink our offer. The unit has been on the market for a year and a half. Due to the extensive work I don't think anyone will bite on this property unless they have ready capitol to fix it up.
That has been the most frustrating of the real estate experience. A lot of great units but are in such disrepair that it is hard for us. We have no idea (and the local banks have been no help) how to access financing to buy a unit and to renovate it as well. I have no idea how others do that. Its been hard for me to find that information out in this area.
Berlin has great potential and needs new blood desperately. Yes, downtown has great pride despite it's sad state at this moment. It needs new leadership in the local government to move it forward. I do know they have hired a company to do studies and come up with a plan to rebrand Berlin and hopefully turn it around.
How are you doing with the AirBnB?
Denise
Hello Denise,
I am looking into Berlin and looking for some advice and information. I am looking to open a bakery/cake shop/cafe in this area and wondering if that would be something of interest?
Any information would be helpful
Thank you,
Bethany
Hello Bethany,
From what I understand there used to be a bakery in Berlin. They are no longer in business and it was at least over 2 years ago. (That is how long I have been up here.) I do not know the reason why they went out of business but having a local bakery in my opinion would be great!
To get a feel for what the locals would think you could try joining "what goes on in Berlin/Gorham" and "what really goes on in Berlin/Gorham" on Facebook and inquire there. I know that a couple just bought a local business on Main St called Ron's Variety and started offering thai food and the demand is high. They actually closed for a bit to renovate and make the kitchen bigger. The former owners had it as a convenient store and small sandwich shop.
Do you plan on owning or renting where you will have the bakery?
Denise
nice to see the progression on the thread. @Denise Hoitt how's rentals doing, did you had to do any rehab on the first one you got ? Did you end up getting a second one? Still price looks tempting lots of multis ore for sell, but then why? Data wise growth is actually on slow decline but home prices seem gone up a little bit at least from assessment vs selling perspective probably because of overall market price boom anyway?
I am very interested coming out of the state as cash flow looks good even with some vacancies but question is then how long it can sustain in a slow depreciating area, or is it just the tip of the iceberg and gonna be further downhill from here?