ROI vs. ROE vs. Cash on Cash

ROI vs. ROE vs. Cash on Cash

Real Estate Investor · Glen Allen, VA · Member since 2008 · 74 posts · 43 votes

In talking to people and reading various posts online, I see a lot of confusion and varying opinions on ROI vs. ROE vs. IRR vs. Cash on Cash. For example, some people think that in the first year when you purchase the property, ROE (return on equity) and Cash on Cash are the same. The reasoning goes that your initial equity in the property before you see any appreciation or debt amortization will be equivalent to your cash investment, i.e. downpayment. While this can be close, at times, it almost never will be exactly the same. I can think of 2 reasons:

1) Not all of your cash investment into a deal will end up being equity. Your downpayment, yes, but not your closing cost (including points, legal fees, appraisal, etc). So your equity initially will be less than your total cash investment, leading your ROE to actually be higher than your cash-on-cash return.

2) If you are buying a property below market value, your equity from day 1 will be higher than your cash investment, leading your ROE to actually be lower than your cash-on-cash. The difference even in year 1 can be quite large.

Another thing I see quiet often is people differentiating between ROI and cash-on-cash return. I’ve seen all sorts of explanations. My take on it is that they’re basically the same. Cash-on-cash calculates your return on cash invested in to the deal. ROI (return on investment) can be calculated in many ways, but in my book it calculates the same thing â€" how much money am I earning on my cash invested into the deal. One deviation for ROI that I often encounter which makes sense to me is when figuring in the proceeds from resale of the property (this is when you monetize your amortization and appreciation and can calculate the $ benefit of both as a % of your original investment). I also call that calculation a “cumulative cash-on-cash returnâ€, which you can then annualize to get to a true return %.

I'd love to hear your opinions, especially differing ones.

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Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
16y

Dan, you have some Enron accounting going on here.....you said your equity would be higher if you acquired a property at a discount or below market. That can not happen by definition, that thinking comes from TV gurus who lie.
The value of your property is what you paid for it, regarless of what your preceive the value to be. Now, after a year (in an new accounting period) your assets are valued at the LOWER OF COST OR MARKET, WHICH EVER IS LESS. Now, for mortgage financing, you use the current market value after one year, within a year, it's based on your cost.

As to analysis, look to the return on your cash as it may reflect a truer picture. In sub 2 or wraps, you may earn a return over the underlying loan under your contract. Such a deal requires a little weighted average analysis.

People who like to punch buttons on financial calculators like to look at ratios. From a financial aspect, most investors do not know what their real cost of capital is or what the over the hump rate is, or your opportunity costs, so you don't have a basis to compare to! It means nothing, it's just fun to do and it might bring a smile to your face, but from a financial business standpoint, meaningless. The same thing with a capitalization rate, you need to know what your cost of capital is and what alternative investment rates are before you can have an accurate rate. To keep a smile on your face, just look at how much cash you had to put into a deal and what you walk away with, much easier. Bill

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  • Mobile, AL · Member since 2010 · 238 posts · 44 votes
    16y

    I kinda lost sight of the forrest because of the trees

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    16y

    The trees are VERY important with real estate no matter what anyone tells you. Properly analyzing an investment is tough and takes time to learn, but it is well worth the effort.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Now that we have about 100,000 viewing the site, let'sbump it up. Maybe there are some professionals with experience in business that can convey this better than I can to those who are still students. I have better things to do.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    Maybe there are professionals that recognize that analysts don't use GAAP for valuing assets too....should be fun.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    LOL, I'm sure there are, gurus for one. Anyone can say they are an analyist.

    hat's the point? I can buy a property and put 500 bucks of paint on it and claim it's worth 20K morel guess I could claim 25K, make it anything you want! Proof will be when you sell it.

    You don't have to use GAAP because you are not a public company, so the regulators don't see protecting the public from the like of small time operators or BSers, but the way thing are going in RE, it's possible. I think the days of gurus spinning this stuff might be numbered.

    Not an argument. Good luck with your opinions.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    Good luck with your opinions too Bill.

  • Real Estate Investor · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2010 · 415 posts · 484 votes
    15y

    Much debate here. Nice to see everyone so passionate, all with an eye toward causing everyone to do a little critical thinking. At the end of the day, you have to do what works for you. If it keeps on working for you, you won't change it. If it doesn't, you will.

    First, the discussion of "what is equity." Seems to be that some people choose to use cost because they say all the talk of buying "below market value" is nonsense. They say, if it's what a buyer will pay, that's the market. Period.

    Although I think there's some truth to that, the fact is that -- at least I hope it's a fact -- some of us are buying for properties at a cost that really is below their market value. Or, at the very least, we are buying properties where we can create value by making repairs and getting more than $1 in for every $1 out.

    Case in point:

    I bought a duplex for $115K. I put $12K into it. My basis is $127K. It rents for $700 a side. Let's assume the 50% rule holds, so it cash flows $700 a month.

    If I use my basis to calculate equity (let's assume I paid cash), then my return on equity is $8,400/$127K, or 6.6%.

    However, let's say I know (or think) that the property is worth $175K. That is, I feel that I have created $48K in equity for myself because (a) I bought the property right to begin with and (b) I've just got mad skills at renovating places cheaply. If I really think the place is worth $175K, and assuming that I'd pay about 9% in transaction costs (commission, closing, etc.) to sell the place, then my "real" equity in the property is:

    $175K - 9% = $159,250.

    So therefore, if calculating an ROE on my investment, I come up with $8,400/$159,250, or 5.3%.

    I think it's completely correct to look at it this way, IF my "market value" is accurate, because you need to know what your investment options are and if they are better than what you have now.

    It's like if someone gave me a $100K house for free, and it rented for $1 a year. Sure, my return on equity could be considered infinite since my basis is zero. Why sell? I'm making an INFINITE return on my investment, right?

    Well, of course you'd sell that place in a New York minute, because you could take the $90K net from the sale of that place and make more than $1 a year from it.

    Another comment on the notion that what you pay IS the market, if that's the case then I guess wholesalers should just give up the game, shouldn't they? I mean, their whole business model is predicated on buying (or tying up) a property for below what someone else (hopefully a rational person) will pay for it.

    So, for me...

    Return on investment = the net income before debt service divided by the entire cost of the asset

    Return on equity = the net income after interest expense (but not principal) divided by your equity (using whatever number works for you)

    Cash on cash = the net income after debt service (including principal payments) divided by how much actual cash you have in the deal

    There are many ways to tweak these numbers using accruals, etc., and that's where you have to think for yourself.

    Oh, as for GAAP, as a "big-bank" trained credit analyst, I know that GAAP, in the literal sense, is far from perfect. It allows earnings and numbers to be massaged to meet a company's needs. In summation, we went to great extent to deconstruct and reconstruct financials to get to the soft, chewy center of what is really going on.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by DeuceSevenOff:
    Oh, as for GAAP, as a "big-bank" trained credit analyst, I know that GAAP, in the literal sense, is far from perfect. It allows earnings and numbers to be massaged to meet a company's needs. In summation, we went to great extent to deconstruct and reconstruct financials to get to the soft, chewy center of what is really going on.

    You're just a "student" Paul. One of these days you will grow up and learn that GAAP is the only way to value things :wink:

    The whole concept of not being able to buy something below market value because that is the market is completely stupid and I think those debating it realize this and are too proud of themselves to admit it.

  • Real Estate Investor · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2010 · 415 posts · 484 votes
    15y

    I think anyone here should be able to admit that there are different values for the same asset based on certain variables.

    Car dealers buy cars at auction wholesale, then turn around and buy the same car retail for hopefully more money. Pawn shops buy a watch and then sell it to someone else at a profit.

    It's the same with houses. Sometimes the circumstances are such that someone needs to "pawn" their property. They know they are leaving money on the table, but their problem is being solved, and they don't care.

    Like that duplex, I paid $115K, put $12K in, and within 5 months I was at the settlement table where I sold it for $177K. When the dust settled, I made $39K. I certainly don't think the property appreciated that much in 5 months; I definitely bought it for less than "fair market value." The seller originally asked for $130K, and she came down to $115K when she saw I was a cash buyer who would close fast.

    Point being, even in her mind, she knew she was getting less than it was worth, but she didn't care because it was worth more to her to solve her primary problem than it was to wring out every last cent from the sale.

  • Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Not an accountant or CPA or analyst so this is real world.

    Real estate values are a function of financing. Low interest rates create bubbles. For those of you old enough to remember 18% rates, there were 2 values at the time. If you sold on contract you could get full value. If you bought for cash you got instant equity with a 40% discount. You could resell with terms and get a higher price.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Okay,

    1. I never said that GAAP was used or not adjusted for financial or economic analysis, but it was implied above.

    2. You guys missed the point.

    a. carrying a value on your financial statements should be consistant, GAPP does that and properly, If you use it, the IRS will smile on you.

    b. The definition of "market value" is thrown around by investors and gurus without using it within the scope of the definition. It's long, so look it up. It will specify that the the sale is under an open market envrionment, with sufficent time time on the market, where neither party had an unfair advantage, etc.....

    c; Aspects of financial analysis and how you arrive at it are not restricted to the book value of an asset, but are computed at a point in time. Under GAAP there are two basic aspects, of a balance sheet, assets less liabilities resulting in your position at that point in time and an income statement, revenues less expenses for net income (before taxes usually) to measure performance at a point in time. The two aspects do not relate to each other but income translates to the balance sheet. Two different things and neither show economic performance.

    3. I never said that any property or all properties were acquired at a true market value. If the definition of market value is not met, for example you acquire a property from an individual who offered it to you and it was not actively on the market, it would not apply!

    You would then pick up the property at a cost of acquisition below that value expeted to be ontained if your were to sell under market value conditions.

    Can you say that you "made" money on that deal? No, because you have not sold it yet, when you seel it under those market conditions (or any conditions and make a profit) that is when you recognize profits or making money.

    Any other claims as to making money on a purchase is incorrect, fluff, boasting, exaggeration or simply a false claim until it is sold.

    My 2010 Escalade is worth 250K, (because it's mine and I drove it) so I made 198K on that deal! A 1958 Cadilac driven by Elvis might be worth more than it's new price, so based on that assumption, anyone want to buy an Escalade?

    Learn definitions. Gurus use terms of market value as an opinion of value, based on (maybe nothing at all) pure opinions, which mean absolutely nothing.

    And, when you acquire a property at a value preceived to be less than it would bring in an open market, there is a reason it is "reported" at the cost of acquisition and not your opinion, because you can stretch or inflate your financial statement. When you apply for a loan, you are to list YOUR OPINION of what assets you have, but you are also to show the DATE ACQUIRED and COST OF ACQISTION. The lender glances at your opion of vaule and studies the time held and the cost at which it was acquired, and without saying anything to you, can make an adjustment to get a better picture of your financial position and a note about how full of it you are! That's why you should use GAAP, IMO.

    Granted, I gave more rope to hang the subject, but at least say what I was saying and not what you might think I was implying. I never said adjustments to GAAP were not made for analysis, but that was not the point.

    You don't know what a market value is until it sells in a transaction that meets the definition of market value.

    Today is a special day, with stuff to go do, so you all have at it if you like, I'm outta here, have a good one and enjoy!

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Financexaminer:
    ...
    b. The definition of "market value" is thrown around by investors and gurus without using it within the scope of the definition. It's long, so look it up. It will specify that the the sale is under an open market envrionment, with sufficent time time on the market, where neither party had an unfair advantage, etc.....
    ...

    Often, these "below market value" acquistions are ones where the buying party had some advantage over the selling party ...

    Originally posted by Financexaminer:
    ...
    You don't know what a market value is until it sells in a transaction that meets the definition of market value.
    ...

    Then why do we need to get appraisals for refinances?

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Steve, It's an Estimate Of Market Value, it's an opnion of value, not a market value.

    Where the parties have equal knowledge (within reason, knowing deficiencies, zoning issues, etc.) of the property, not so much as to the ability of one being a better negoitator.

    Where the buyer and seller are aware of the issues that effect value concerning the property. This is really where a seller for example sells cheaper because they know it has a bad foundation and the buyer is not aware of it.

    Okay, gotta run,have a good one, I have a party to go to!

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    Bill...I don't know how any reasonable person can interpret what you wrote at the beginning of this thread as anything other than claiming that the purchase price is the market value. I can't delve into the details because I am short on time right now. Suffice it to say for now that I like your passage and (new) position above much better.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Financexaminer:
    ...
    The value of your property is what you paid for it, regarless of what your preceive the value to be. ...

    Bryan, I just helped you out ...

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Financexaminer:
    I never said that any property or all properties were acquired at a true market value. If the definition of market value is not met, for example you acquire a property from an individual who offered it to you and it was not actively on the market, it would not apply!

    Yeap Steve...hard to see how that jives with the passage above. This is obviously a change of position to me, but I am sure we will hear all sorts of reasoning why it isn't.

    It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Banks don't like counting equity and Bill tries to treat all valuations as the bank would treat them. This is consistent across many threads. I like the idea of being conservative, but I also like to pick dollar bills up when I see them laying on the street instead of assuming that someone else from the market of potential "picker-uppers" has already snatched the money!

    I am glad this thread was revived and we even got Andy Rooney to participate in the thread in the same week that he railed against the practice. Nice!

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Financexaminer:
    Where the parties have equal knowledge (within reason, knowing deficiencies, zoning issues, etc.) of the property, not so much as to the ability of one being a better negoitator.

    Where the buyer and seller are aware of the issues that effect value concerning the property. This is really where a seller for example sells cheaper because they know it has a bad foundation and the buyer is not aware of it.

    I disagree here. Having equal or close to equal knowldge is not the governing factor, he or she who is the better negotiator or who is in a better position wins.
    As for seller selling to buyer because they know of a deficint foundation (or anything else) and do not disclose it, are just begging to get sued.

    As to the debate back and forth on buying below market value vs. price you pay is market value: I stand with Bryan on this. My position is the same. Circumstances create motivated sellers and knowldge and experience creates savvy investors/buyers. In such cases, a savvy buyer can negotiate with a distressed seller and buy below market value.
    How else can you explain how I and many others have purchased properties at one price and immediately (even on the very same day) sold the very same property, in the very same condition to another buyer for more and pocketed the difference! The reason is simple. Savvy buyers can purchase below market value.

    As a rehabber, I buy below market value, then I repair which "force appreciates" the prperty and then I sell at full retail price. This is done by me and thousands like me every day. You can argue all you want that value=price paid that day, but I will disagree with you each and every time.

    I just purchased $6500 in items from Lowes last week and Lowes paid less for these very same items and sold them to me in the very same condition. Did they pay market value, then it appreciated to the new market value I paid for them? I think not. They bought at discount (wholesale prices) and sold at retail prices. Perhaps this is the worst of the examples given, but hopefully, it further proves my position.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Will Barnard:
    How else can you explain how I and many others have purchased properties at one price and immediately (even on the very same day) sold the very same property, in the very same condition to another buyer for more and pocketed the difference! The reason is simple. Savvy buyers can purchase below market value.

    This is obviously correct Will and it is painful to me that we are even having to debate it. Some people on BP grandstand and insert all sorts of nasty language about people being "students" when they are OBVIOUSLY wrong about some of the positions they take. Later on they revise their position to make it seem like they were claiming something else. This is generally followed by a long period of ignoring the thread altogether, revisionist rhetoric, or an exodus from the board for an extended period of time. I am very curious to see which it will be this time or how the spinning will occur.

    It will certainly be entertaining! :D

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Well, this thread did start about a year ago, and I re-read it. Bryan, I have never changed my position, please psot any opposing opinions, and not taken out of context.

    Eddie gets it. The point I have been making has nothing to do with financial analysis and GAAP, as I have mentioned before, but ignored. The listing on your books or in your financial statement your opinion of value within the first year and not what you paid for it is incorrect. That is the claims of the TV gurus. Maybe Byan got his MBA in finance, mine is as well, I'm a degreed accountant as well. Booking an asset at a higher value than you have as an acquisition costs for it is improper, period.

    I can see where someone might acquire a property and show a higher value immediately especially if they are getting investors involved and show your inflated net worth or even assign such values as collateral, which IMO bridges on fraud. It is absolutely without any question whatsoever improper and it is deceptive practice if it is done.

    That was really my only point about using GAAP. If there are any degreed accountants with a different opinion, please jump in. That would also be an invation to any financial regulator of any State or Federal agnecy.

    Again, market values.

    There are several definitions of market value. I just looked it up again and found several for real estate, (market values of securities do not apply as real estate is unique and there is no established market for trading a property as there is for investment securities).

    The ones I prefer to use are those we must live by, based in regulation and law.

    Try this: 12 USC,1818 as Authority
    55 Federal Regulation 33888 dtd Aug. 20, 1990
    Section 323.2 Definitions.

    The examples given by those who purchased properties at a great deal obviously do not meet the definition of Market Value. If your acquisition does not meet the definition of market value, then your buying price was not the market value, pretty simple.

    In the definition, you'll see where the buyer and seller are acting prudently, in their best interest, with knowledge of the property. My comment above about the parties having equal knowledge was actually the wording used by appraisal requirements, in every appraisal, the appraiser provides the definition under which he/she arrived at the Estimate of Market Value.

    This is not to say that you can not acquire a property under distressed circumstances or with seller concessions. Transactions that may not meet the definition could include:

    Seller financing can be a sale concession'

    A mother selling a property to her son is another example, if the mother sells with any consideration of their relationship.

    Another is a pre-foreclosure purchase, where the seller is highly motivated and is under undue pressure to enter into a sale agreement.

    A neighbor offers a price to a property at a premium so that the buyer can control the property next door;

    A seller does not disclose deficiencies about the property, physical or in title, or even of pending actions (like government re-zoning actions).

    A buyer does not disclose to a seller of an existing permissible higher and better use for the property.

    These are examples of transactions where the sale price may not meet the market value definition. Dealing from a position of having secret knowledge about a property is not dealing in good faith. Both parties dealing with full knowledge about a property and one party having an advantage in negoiating a better price is not an undue advantage.

    These aspects are not my personal opinions, but aspects of assessing values based on law, rule and regulation and intrepretations used in the market place. They are also the parameters I had to operate under when I did appraisals. Ask an appraiser. You can also google the referrence above for the definition.

    But, you can not set an actual market value (that's why appraisers only give "estimates") until a property sells and the transaction meets the definition. Therefore, saying you purchased below market value is technically not a true statement. You purchased at a transaction value or price value that may allow you to profit when the property is resold. You can not pull a value out of the air, or based on any estimate immediately after you buy a property and call it a "market value". By definition, it is not. :roll:

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Financexaminer:
    The value of your property is what you paid for it, regarless of what your preceive the value to be. Now, after a year (in an new accounting period) your assets are valued at the LOWER OF COST OR MARKET, WHICH EVER IS LESS.

    The passage above is simply untrue. I don't really know what point you are trying to make Bill, but market value relies on a competitive market:

    Market Value

    Originally posted by Bryan Hancock:

    If you buy something under market value because you are the only one that knows about it then that equity is real. You can't convince a bank that equity exists....but that is generally because of the way the laws are written...for good reason.

    I wrote this several months ago to which you responded:

    Originally posted by Financexaminer:

    So, my only objection, so to speak, is that there is a claim of increasing ones assets by a preceived unproven amount, whic in my book, is deceptive. Now I'm not calling you deceptive, I'm saying that the accounting and reporting proceedure is incorrect and does not increase your net worth an hour after closing. Just too many guru books out bthere to read.

    along with many half-masked insults....along with the following:

    Originally posted by Financexaminer:

    OK, but the reality of the world is that the rules and laws we must abide by is defined by GAAP. You can account for what ever you like in any manner that you like, say strictly from an economic skewed view, but in the end, you'll need to convert that thinking back to GAAP to re-enter the real world, like at the bank or in your tax return

    which is also untrue. Who gives a f what GAAP says about this? IN THE REAL WORLD the market value is the market value. If you buy something distressed you are extremely capable of buying (well) BELOW market value. This equity is real....not perceived, made up, or 2nd cousin to Harvey the Rabbit. People buy at distressed prices and sell in a competitive market at non-distressed price EVERY DAY. When this is monetized do you think the bank discounts the cash because it is squishy and a figment of the borrower's imagination.

    If you look at the very beginning of the thread you will also see numerous references to different perceptions of market value in my posts. Different people value things differently and none of them are necessarily right. This is what makes for a market and it is why the ratios cited in the OP are subject to abuse, misunderstandings, etc. Use of ex post cash flows is really all that is going to give you meaningful return metrics. The trouble is that this does no good for you until ex post!

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    LOL, you really want to argue I guess, what you said makes no sence to me, I stand by every letter of every word, taken in context.

    Your opinion is not going to trump regulations, not in my mind.

    If Bryan has a valid point here, would someone else explain it? If you don't get it after all that, I'm not spending more time on it with you Bryan. Look it up. Thanks!

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    Nope Bill...I don't want to argue. I want everyone to understand how ridiculous it is to say that the market value is what one person will pay in a distressed environment. People can look back through the thread and decide for themselves whether or not opinions were revised.

    The equity is real if you purchase at a discount. End of story.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    15y

    Post it. Saying I said something does not make it so. Just but the ytwo conflicting statements together without more verbage so we can just compare the two statements, not pages of stuff....

    I doubt many want to understand Bryan, if you made instant money on your deal why didn't you claim it and pay taxes on it? Really!

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    ?

    I'm lost. Look at the passages above. It is ridiculous to continue bickering about this. The purchase price does not necessarily equal the market value....period.

  • Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    Over the last several years there has been a movement in accounting to have financial statements reflect market value as opposed to book value. For assets that trade regularly it is necessary to use the market value as determined on the financial statement date. For assets not regularly traded an appraisal may be required. Real estate must be appraised.

    GAAP is moving toward market value as opposed to book value. Regardless of what some might think it is necessary to use sound judgment when preparing financial statements this has always been true. In an audit auditors will examine the method of valuation and test for reasonableness and consistency.

    Accountants are required to be conservative, but there is a movement toward market value statements. Albeit this will be estimated market value using credible sources that are well defined.

    It is quite true that accounting and finance take a different perspective on valuations as well. Often accountants get stuck looking at historical numbers which may have little to do with future trends. Finance typically deals with estimates because it is necessary to look where a company will be rather than has been.

    If you look at the definition of market value it is also clear that purchases can be made at values below market.

    What is market value? Here is a good definition.
    http://www.agecon.purdue.edu/crd/localgov/second%20level%20pages/def_market_value.htm

    Some key elements:
    Reasonable time of exposure in an open market
    Both parties well informed and advised
    Both buyer and seller are motivated
    There is also an assumption that the price is not affected by an undue stimulus

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