Is this a SCAM... You tell me

Is this a SCAM... You tell me

Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2008 · 13 posts · 1 vote

Recently I was told about a company that was selling RE in western New York by a friend, it is called cashflowandequity.com and decided to check them out.
I first tried the search engine here on Biggerpockets and then I went to their website and saw all of these “great deals” as they called them.

I decided to pick out some properties that where fairly close by in Buffalo, NY where I live.

I started with 214 Abbott St (should be Rd) that they had listed for $64,900.00 (now sold), with income of $1050.00. Since I'm a RE agent
I then decided to look up that property on the MLS and found it was listed for $38,900.00. WOW !!! $26,000.00 markup…Sweeeet.
It also was vacant so no current income. I then checked on how it was sold, a local realtor sold it for $35,000.00… hmmm makes you think huh?

I then decided that I should not be to quick to judge and decided I should look up some more of what they had listed.

The next one was 245 Ideal St they where selling for $47,900.00, listed on the MLS for $26,900.00 , $21,000.00 markup another sweet deal for them ended up selling for $23,000.00 and was vacant not making the $925.00 a month as stated.

Next 188 Hutchinson Ave. they have listed at $44,900.00 with income of $950.00 a month. To start out a very scary neighborhood, not sure its safe in the daytime let alone at night. List price on the MLS is $7000.00 sold for $5000.00 and again vacant. A $37,000.00 markup nice.

I ended up looking up several more properties on their web site all with the same story, Huge markups and all vacant…

…..and something else, all of them where sold by the same realtor, another hmmmm…

…and most either being purchased by or unloaded by a company out of Marietta, GA called “Allied Claims Management”.
I checked their web site which happens to state that it is temporarily down for maintenance (http://www.alliedcm.net/).

Now I’m not saying that this company “Cashflowandequity.com” or Allied C.M. or the realtor (no I didn’t mention the name) are scammers….

Just an FYI …

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Most Popular Reply

OR · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 845 votes
16y

The only thing that all this proves is that it isn't the best plan to purchase real estate without actually looking at it.

Before you buy, look at the house, look at the neighborhood, verify any information that you need to know about the house independently of what the seller tells you.

If the deal is OK, it will check out OK. If the deal stinks, all it takes is a little bit of digging to find that out.

Even a cheap house is a chunk of money. Verify what you will be getting for your money.

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  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    18y

    This kind of nonsense is exactly why I don't disclose where I buy property anymore. Buffalo is currently being marketed HEAVILY to european investors who are taking advantage of the weak US dollar. However, a 400% markup kinda hurts your 50% currency advantage. Greater fool theory still in action.....

  • Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2008 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    18y

    More info I just found out that.....

    Cashflowandequity.com, Allied Claims Management, &
    Cornerstone Investment Group, all have the same address....

    2470 Windy Hill Rd
    Marietta, Georgia 30067

    I'm sure that is just a coincidence though....

  • Murray Hill, NJ · Member since 2008 · 204 posts · 15 votes
    18y

    JC,

    I just noticed your post about cashflowandequity, specifically about the property at 188 Hutchinson. I just spoke with them today about that exact property. Can you tell me where you saw this house listed for $7000.

    Thanks.

  • Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2008 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    18y

    Yes...it was in the MLS, I'm a RE agent...if you have more questions about Buffalo RE feel free to ask.

    As far as Cashflowandequity.com I guess I'm not as good as I thought, I just found out more info on them. Check out this link

    http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/257/RipOff0257621.htm

    Oh well, better late than never I guess....

  • Murray Hill, NJ · Member since 2008 · 204 posts · 15 votes
    18y

    I saw that link today also. Glad I found out before it was too late.
    Anyway, is there such a thing as a turnkey investment like that in that area? Western NY state seems like the only area I've found where the home prices are low enough and the rents are high enough to support the idea of actually being able to finance the purchase and still have positive cash flow after expenses, debt service, etc. It sure wouldn't work in here in NJ!

  • Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2008 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    18y
    dversch
    is there such a thing as a turnkey investment like that in that area? Western NY state seems like the only area I've found where the home prices are low enough and the rents are high enough to support the idea of actually being able to finance the purchase and still have positive cash flow after expenses, debt service, etc.

    Yes, I help people like yourself all the time without charging 400% markups. all you need to do is tell me exactly what your looking for and I can find it. The prices here are reasonable compared to alot of other areas, you just need to stay out of certain areas of the city, Im sure there are some of those in every city.
    Jim

  • Real Estate Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2008 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    18y

    I would suggest that before taking such a harsh stance against my company it would be best to get your facts straight.

    We buy, fully rehab, rent and sell turn-key properties in Western NY to investors all over the world. Let me address what you have posted about individual properties on our web site:

    For example we purchased 214 Abbott Rd for $35,000 and did a full rehab of the property for another $15,000. We rented both apartments on full one-year leases for $525 each to qualified tenants. We sold the property on our site with full seller and rent concessions for $64,900. This property was not just turned over for a profit without any work being completed as you claim. It was a full and complete rehab and sold rented.

    The claim here is that we are assigning contract without doing any work to the property. That could not be further from the truth. We buy these properties and do ALL the work necessary on them and then rent them. The buyers use bank financing to purchase these properties so they have to appraise. In today's mortgage climate, no one could possibly slip a deal such as you are suggesting past a lender. No scams here....

    Regarding our name, we buy properties in sevaral different LLC names for liability purposes. That is it. Sorry, no Oliver Stone-like conspiracy there either. Our office are in Atlanta but we have Area Managers in Buffalo and Rochester that head up our construction crews as well as Attorneys, Agents and Property Managers that make up our team of professionals.

    Regarding other negative posts, I would hope that people would understand that there are two sides to every story. Most of the time the other side never gets heard before people have drawn their own conclusions. Every company who has sold at the volume we have will have some dissatisfied customers. However, we have sold more than 400 properties and have very, very few complaints. We service our customers after the sale as well and back up what we sell. I wonder if an agent would do that...

    I could go on and on. Most of what has been posted here is based on half-truths and mis-information. This type of mis-information is unfair to my company and the 400 other customers who have bought property from us.

    Chris Stroud

  • Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2008 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    18y

    First of all if you read my post I didn't accuse you of anything..
    Read it again...
    You will see I mentioned I was told about your company by a friend and I did a little investigation work on your company(s) and told nothing but the truth. Again nothing but the truth...

    I then ended it this way

    Everything I said was 100% true...wasn't it...

    Then Wheatie replied:

    So no one said you are doing wrong...it was just an FYI - use the info as you want...

    Granted I may not of made you and your companies look like they the next coming of christ but I didn't lie either.

    Jim

  • Real Estate Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2008 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    18y

    You most certainly did leave information out of your half-*** "investigation" such as that you claim the properties are not rented, you claim we are turning these properties for large profits without doing any work to them and then how about this lie:

    "I ended up looking up several more properties on their web site all with the same story, Huge markups and all vacant…"

    Also not true....If you are going to put something like this on the internet, shouldn't you have ALL your facts straight?

  • Real Estate Agent · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2008 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    18y

    Listen this is childish, If you want me to start picking apart what you have on your website I can (like where most of the property is located), not the better parts of the area is it....

    I don't have the time to start name calling and I'm sure this post will be shut down soon so why bother.

    Everything I said was true, you know it, and I know it...

    Have a nice day....

    Jim

  • Real Estate Investor · Mechanicsville, VA · Member since 2010 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    16y

    Jim,
    I am one of the ones who got duped by cashfowandequity.com, now cashflowwithequity.com. I hope Chris reads this. I feel scammed by this group. Everything reported by ripoffreport.com about them is true. I only wish I had known before I bought four lousy over priced pieces of junk properties. Chris if you read this. You can buy back all of these properties for what I paid plus you pay closing costs and I will change my tune. In the two years I have had these properties it has been one continual nightmare. These rehabbed properties are anything but. They are costing me many thousands more than the rent brings in. I can't sell them because they aren't worth selling. I have had major issues with electricity, plumbing, rotten windows, gutters falling off, citations from the city for peeling paint. Everything you can imagine has gone wrong. Major tenant and management problems. When I visited the houses I was so shocked that I went into a deep depression. How could I be duped so thoroughly?
    Jim, give me a contact if you think you can help me. Chris, do you want to clear your name?

  • OR · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 845 votes
    16y

    The only thing that all this proves is that it isn't the best plan to purchase real estate without actually looking at it.

    Before you buy, look at the house, look at the neighborhood, verify any information that you need to know about the house independently of what the seller tells you.

    If the deal is OK, it will check out OK. If the deal stinks, all it takes is a little bit of digging to find that out.

    Even a cheap house is a chunk of money. Verify what you will be getting for your money.

  • Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 318 posts · 30 votes
    16y

    I agree with Tim, I never tell anyone where I buy properties for this reason.

  • Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 318 posts · 30 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Jim Camp:
    If you want me to start picking apart what you have on your website I can (like where most of the property is located), not the better parts of the area is it....

    Does it really matter where you buy property as long as your making a profit and beautifying the neighborhood :lol:

    (I thought I would bust a joke to ease the tension haha.)

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    16y

    Hi, well with all that....actually I was expecting to see something else, or this stuff witha twist. This has nothing to do with the site mentioned but,

    There are some out there buying for like 12K putting 4K in it, then they either lease or seller finance to a straw man, say for 650 a month or a sale price of 75,000. Then they market the deal to the investor, either the cash flow the note or at a discounted price for a lump sum in a shorter period of time, say 45K. After a few months after the investor clesars his obligation or being close to it, they lose the straw man who moves out on them and there you hang!
    Packing tenants in is another fraud, landlords just allow people in at very low rents, even none and claim higher rents off that building (really derived from other properties) and sell the ongoing business, the tenants pay a higher rent after the sale for awhile or just move out. Good luck, Bill

  • Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 318 posts · 30 votes
    16y

    Bill,
    From what you read here (not accusing anyone) do you think thats the case...of having a straw man??

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    16y

    Hey, no idea, you should ask around about tenants, I always did before I bought a rental. Ask other neighbors, others in the area. I use to staek out a place and watch for a while, different times and different days sometimes. You can't do that long distance! Now these were not war zone areas, but not the best place in town either, middle road, but seems every neigborhood has something or someone. Anyway, as an investigator guy in a prior life, I felt comfortable pretexting in any situation..to get information. Then again, I was never surprised after settlement either.

    You might get information from the utility company, at least how long they have been turned on and the average billing. Ask what month the high winter bill was in and high summer (or gas for heat and electric for air). If they were vacant you'll know from the bill. If the seller says they have been here for a year, you know something is up.
    There are alot of questions you can ask of a tenant and then the landlord and see if the jive.
    Ya think anyone would be interested in a list of questions and tips on places to check up on your tenants before you buy? Anyway,

    As to buying long distance, you are at a big disadvantage, but many do it and are good at it. One easy way to spot scams is the hipe that is used to market it. Real owners who have real tenants just don't talk that talk, they talk more about how old the roof is, when they replaced the HVAC, scammers don't really know RE that much, they sell hipe. numbers and potential. You'll see some on here, after you know what they try to sell, they only have to write a couple sentences and you can spot them....I usually can. Good luck, Bill

  • Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 318 posts · 30 votes
    16y

    Well said Bill.

  • Niagara Falls, NY · Member since 2012 · 1 post · 0 votes
    14y

    Has anyone have any further stories on this company? They seem like decent people. Not sure though you never know. Can anyone refer me to a decent honest investment agent (residential) in the WNY area? What are the average vacancy rates in the Niagara/Buffalo area? 10%? Thanks so much

  • Flipper · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2011 · 115 posts · 20 votes
    14y

    This is a good post, just as a reminder why we always have to do ALOT of homework. And the sweeter the deal looks, the more research I do. If it looks too good, there is usually a reason!

  • Spring, TX · Member since 2012 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    14y

    So they were selling homes to landlords with the claim that they were rented and in good shape?

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 3 posts · 2 votes
    14y

    As with anything, especially if u think its a scam - your own research is going to play the biggest part. With what you found on your own, it's probably more than they could have offered you anyway. The discrepancies add up quick, and even if they're not "scamming" their certainly not functioning with integrity. Not a company i would want to work with.

  • Lender · Fort Pierce, FL · Member since 2009 · 825 posts · 486 votes
    14y

    Their website www.cashflowandequity.com is still up. Perhaps they have "reformed".

  • Investor · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    I don't understand how anybody would think that a company would buy, rehab, lease up and resale quality properties to random, marginally qualified investors. If they had the great deals they are showing on paper... they would keep it or market it to those with deep pockets in NYC. They would not need to mass market if they had quality deals because there would be enough local interest to absorb as many deals as they could find.

    The old saying goes "if you sit down to a game of poker and you don't know who the chump is... you are the chump."

  • Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2010 · 292 posts · 103 votes
    14y

    I've always been very wary of investors who buy, rehab, and sell something as a "turn-key investment." sounds good in principle, but there are too many ways to become the "suckeree" if you're not careful.

    I once called on an apartment building for sale. Numbers were intriguing, but it wasn't without some persistent questioning that I finally uncovered that the broker selling it was also the owner, or at least had some partial ownership interest. The fact that he didn't readily reveal that spooked me. I smelled a rat and tossed that one really fast. When people lie or try to withold things, be very very careful

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