Pre-foreclosure/foreclosure leads in a Judicial Foreclosure State

Residential Real Estate Agent · Mc Keesport, PA · Member since 2012 · 449 posts · 154 votes

12y

Hey Greg,

I am looking for answers to the same questions you posted. I do have some experience with this, but I'm always looking to get better, more up-to-date data on pre-foreclosures.

I have used Listsource to pull pre-foreclosure leads. I've found that the best way to do this with them is to only pull a list with activity within the past 30 days. Even then you will get leads that have already gone too far, i.e. have already been foreclosed on. BUT, you will also get leads that are still very salvageable. I also set the equity to be at least 65%. This limits the leads rather substantially, but it also gives me leads that I can easily work with. Although I know not all investors are like this, I am an investor that likes equity. In my mind, if nothing else it limits your risk.

Realty Trac has fairly accurate data in my experience. You can mail to pre-foreclosures or you can simply extract the data, optimize a map of the addresses and head out once a week and knock on doors. If you get no answer, leave a flyer. This is what we just did today and we have several very good leads. And rest assured, there is virtually NO COMPETITION if you decide to go this route. I used to be leary about doing pre-foreclosure door knocking, but I've found that most people are very fun to talk with. If your main focus is trying to help them, you won't have hardly any problems and you will never have to worry about how to find deals ever again. Also, while you're out driving to these properties, be sure to write down all the vacant/distressed homes you notice along the way and get them on your mailing list.

Looking forward to see what others have to say in regards to your post...

1 Reply

Gregory Green

OP

Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 2 votes

12y

@Jerry Kisasonak

Thanks for your response and the suggestions. I'm learning that marketing and locating deals, particularly those in foreclosure, is going to have to be a little more grassroots. Have you received calls from your flyers or do most of your deals originate from the door knocking?

When you used listsource to pull a list from the last 30 days, are you selecting pre/auction?

I'm interested to hear how others obtain leads in judicial states.

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Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

12y

Judicial means they are going to court, so caution:

There is recent federal law requiring a license to consult anyone in a pre-foreclosure, after notice. Approaching them can be touchy as they should have an attorney. If you approach with some scheme other than a cash or straight sale that can payoff the lender, you may get caught up in delaying the process or interfering that can lead to fed violations. Don't use any marketing approach about keeping them from foreclosure or imply such benefits, IMO, and approach them without bringing up the foreclosure issue. I'd also send letters to neighbors, say 10 houses in the neighborhood so you are not seen targeting foreclosures. :)

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Gregory Green

OP

Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 11 posts · 2 votes

12y

@Bill Gulley thank you! That's a great little nugget. Do you think it's "worth it" to try and engage homeowners in the midst of the foreclosure process or perhaps just target the homes when they go to auction?

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Jerry Kisasonak

Residential Real Estate Agent · Mc Keesport, PA · Member since 2012 · 449 posts · 154 votes

12y

@Gregory Green

We are having success with in-person and leaving flyers. And this is certainly grassroots. It's amazing how many people don't want to leave their computers these days. This, of course, opens up more opportunity for those who do.

As for the question on Listsource and pulling the data, under the Foreclosure tab I am selecting the "Pending Auction Sale," then "Recently Added," and then limiting it to the past 30 days. I am in PA, and that's the way Listsource recommends it be done here. They say NOT to use the "Default (Pre-foreclosure) Initiated" selection. You're in PA, so I'd do it the way I just outlined.

You can just wait till the auction but then you'll likely get into a bidding war with the other folks who rely on the auctions for their deal flow. Or you could wait until they become REO's and try to pluck them off of the MLS. I try to get them before they make it to the block. The further down stream they get the more competition you'll have from the bears that wade in those waters.

0 Reply

Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

12y

Originally posted by @Gregory Green:

@Bill Gulley thank you! That's a great little nugget. Do you think it's "worth it" to try and engage homeowners in the midst of the foreclosure process or perhaps just target the homes when they go to auction?

I'd think for someone new, that may be influenced by investor methods, like wholesaling, that they avoid pre-foreclosures where notice has been given.

If you're more advanced and skilled in presenting an offer and negotiating without making any reference or even the implication that your offer will provide some relief to their situation and make it clear that it's just a deal and you're not advising them in any manner and do so by showing you didn't target a pending foreclosure, you might go there.

The issue is that if the investor doesn't have cash or reliable access to cash, they need to stay away from owners who have received notice. At that point, no Sub-2 deal or any lease-option or any kind of seller financed transaction will not work if the process of foreclosure was begun. Okay, maybe one out of a hundred for those who like to disagree, but in reality, trying to get that one isn't worth the risk of a felony. It will take cash to payoff the loan.

Otherwise, yes, go to the auction. :)

2 Reply

Ram Srinivasan

Business Consultant · Calgary, Alberta · Member since 2014 · 178 posts · 36 votes

11y

@Bill Gulley, is there a link you could point to that refers to this topic? That's fascinating, because there is a whole community in here wondering about acquiring pre foreclosure leads, without ever thinking twice that it could be a felony. This feels like a hidden forum..

0 Reply

Brian Gibbons

Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes

11y

@Gregory Green

FBI Foreclosure Rescue Fraud

https://www.fbi.gov/news/videos/foreclosure-rescue...

California Foreclosure Rescue Fraud

http://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/foreclosure_sc...

Buy the house for cash, get the owner out, easiest way to stay out of Federal trouble.

1 Reply

Bill Gulley

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

11y

You can also look to HUD regulations, Certified Counselors, usually under the seal of a non-profit, or an attorney may get involved after notice is given. A Realtor may also get involved to list a property.

You are also skirting with interference with an insured lender getting into foreclosures. This aspect is from the commercial side not consumer protection laws. You end up there when the investor or the seller communicates your "sale" to a lender. While a lender will almost always continue with the foreclosure requirements, they may take other actions internally to prepare for a sale, like auditing the account again for a payoff. It costs the lender to do things and they aren't happy when some fly by night operator clogs up the process, it's interference with banking operations, a felony. The next step is fraud, false information provided to an insured lender in making a loan or foreclosure defaults to bank fraud.

I strongly suggest that newbies stay away from pre-foreclosure situations. The reality is, they usually aren't as profitable as investors seem to think they are, a lot of risk for a little money. :)

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David Rong

Member since 2026 · 16 posts · 1 vote

1w

Quote from @Gregory Green:

Hi everyone, I have a question regarding locating/purchasing data.

I live in Pennsylvania and when I research foreclosures and pre-foreclosures in PA I am unable to generate any leads. One site (either listsource or listability) advised that when searching in PA you have to search for properties that are up for auction. Well by that point, you've more than likely missed the window of opportunity to interact with a motivated seller. I'm sure it's not impossible but it's well beyond the 60-90-120 day range where you have a greater chance to purchase the house. Moreover, how motivated can a seller be when they know they have plenty of time (upwards of ten months) before they lose the property?

I read Steve Cook's article on judicial foreclosures: foreclosure-update-happier-days-on-the-way-for-judicial-states/ and in that article he indicates how long the foreclosure process is in judicial states and the impact it has on investors by reducing the number of houses available.

All of this brings me to my question, which has two parts:

1) is there a viable way to obtain a list of homes in the pre-foreclosure/foreclosure process in judicial states where no public notice of impending foreclosure is required?;

2) I noticed on RealtyTrac that they actually list homes in pre-foreclosure/foreclosure process, yet I've seen in some threads that RealtyTrac can be unreliable and out of date sometimes. Is RealtyTrac's information legit and if so, what price ranges has some people seen when using it (some quick criteria for the sake of the question: 3 bedroom sfh, 1000+ sq. ft; 50% or less LTV)?

I am seeking these properties for the purpose of wholesaling. I have cash buyers lined up but I need to locate the properties. I am now preparing my yellow letter campaign and I will more than likely use one of the marketing companies I've seen on the site (www.yellowletters.com). I have a list for absentee owners but I would really like one for foreclosures if possible.

If there are any details I've left out, please let me know, I'm happy to include them.

Agreed on the judicial-state gap - in PA the auction notice approach misses the window entirely. The earlier public signal is the foreclosure complaint filing itself: Philly publishes its civil dockets online (courts.phila.gov) with the complaint date, and the lis pendens gets recorded shortly after. Allegheny and Montgomery do the same.

Practical tip: track by complaint-filed date rather than auction date - that puts you 60-90 days earlier than any auction-based list, and you can verify the filing is still active (not dismissed or cured) before reaching out. It's tedious across multiple county portals, but it's the freshest legal signal a judicial state has.

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Pre-foreclosure/foreclosure leads in a Judicial Foreclosure State

Pre-foreclosure/foreclosure leads in a Judicial Foreclosure State

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