NEW! BP Podcast 019: Starting Out Tips, Short Sales, and Working with Virtual Assistants w/ Tracy Royce

Hide this

People to Know

 

From the BiggerPockets Blog

 BiggerPockets Blog »

Jump to Forum View All

Click a category below to view different forum categories.

BiggerPockets

General Info

BiggerPockets Q&A, Site Questions, & Announcements

1143 topics, 10711 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 02:36PM

BiggerPockets Exclusive PRO Area

31 topics, 223 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 07:55AM

New Member Introductions

6180 topics, 40429 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 04:21PM

Real Estate Success Stories

214 topics, 2942 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 03:22PM

BiggerPockets Real Estate Investing Summit

95 topics, 1723 posts — Last Post 05/16/13, 06:39PM

General Real Estate

General Real Estate

Buying & Selling Real Estate

2815 topics, 23171 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 03:04PM

Renters

306 topics, 2646 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 02:57PM

Get Foreclosure Help - Help Stop Foreclosure Forum

264 topics, 2099 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 03:04PM

Home Owner Association (HOA) Issues & Problems Forum

159 topics, 1073 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 03:42PM

Do it Yourself

403 topics, 3665 posts — Last Post 05/24/13, 09:54AM

Reviews & Feedback

Real Estate Deal Analysis and Advice

2151 topics, 16732 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 04:54PM

Real Estate Guru, Book & Course Reviews and Discussions

867 topics, 8560 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 07:26AM

Ask About A Real Estate Company

537 topics, 5562 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 06:34AM

Real Estate Investing

Real Estate Strategies

Wholesaling

3764 topics, 29947 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 04:23PM

Rehabbing and House Flipping

2392 topics, 22336 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 04:53PM

Real Estate Development & New Home Construction

394 topics, 2891 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 04:02PM

Innovative Strategies

519 topics, 4167 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 10:59PM

Tax Liens, Notes, Paper, & Cash Flows Discussion

581 topics, 4238 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 05:56AM

Rent to Own a.k.a. Lease Purchase, Lease Options

473 topics, 3260 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 11:53AM

1031 Exchanges

86 topics, 592 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 11:45AM

Foreclosure Investing

General Foreclosure & Pre-Foreclosure Forums

1364 topics, 8935 posts — Last Post 05/24/13, 12:39PM

HUD, VA, and Tax Sales

271 topics, 1734 posts — Last Post 05/24/13, 05:09PM

REOs

1057 topics, 9230 posts — Last Post 05/24/13, 08:14PM

Short Sales

1387 topics, 11838 posts — Last Post 05/24/13, 05:53AM

Landlord & Tenant Forums

Landlord & Rental Property Questions

4774 topics, 44802 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 04:17PM

Mobile Homes & Mobile Home Park Investing

490 topics, 3851 posts — Last Post 05/24/13, 11:09PM

Investor Basics

Starting Out

5343 topics, 41529 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 01:21PM

Investor Psychology

338 topics, 4970 posts — Last Post 05/24/13, 06:11PM

General Real Estate Investing

3561 topics, 27311 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 04:42PM

Real Estate Investor Marketing

1173 topics, 9466 posts — Last Post 05/24/13, 09:18PM

Commercial Real Estate

Commercial Real Estate Investing Forum

1135 topics, 7114 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 04:17PM

Multi-Family and Apartment Investing

539 topics, 4685 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 04:19PM

The Business of Real Estate

Real Estate Technology and the Internet

Real Estate Technology, Social Media & Blogging

460 topics, 3820 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 01:00PM

Business Basics

Goals, Business Plans & Entities

557 topics, 5227 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 11:15AM

Real Estate Finance & Legal

Financial, Tax, and Legal

Tax, Legal Issues, Contracts, Self-Directed IRA

1986 topics, 14038 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 04:00PM

Credit & Credit Repair

222 topics, 1802 posts — Last Post 04/22/13, 10:00AM

Property Insurance

208 topics, 1336 posts — Last Post 05/22/13, 01:52PM

Bankruptcy

25 topics, 138 posts — Last Post 03/22/13, 08:22PM

Loans, Mortgages, Credit Lines

Private & Conventional Lending Discussion

1858 topics, 12551 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 05:05PM

Creative Real Estate Financing

841 topics, 5950 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 03:56PM

Real Estate Professionals

Real Estate Professionals

Real Estate Agents

793 topics, 5014 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 12:48PM

Bankers, Lenders, and Mortgage Brokers

374 topics, 1501 posts — Last Post 05/21/13, 10:18AM

Contractors

156 topics, 869 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 12:02PM

Local Real Estate

Local Real Estate

Local Real Estate Networking & Recommendations

943 topics, 5411 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 02:39PM

Americans & International Real Estate

149 topics, 540 posts — Last Post 05/17/13, 03:21PM

Foreigners Buying in the USA

47 topics, 296 posts — Last Post 05/13/13, 09:15AM

Canadian Real Estate

33 topics, 155 posts — Last Post 04/28/13, 07:59AM

Marketplace

Real Estate Marketplace

Real Estate Marketplace

11612 topics, 44757 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 03:50PM

Off-Topic

Off Topic

Off-Topic

2576 topics, 30360 posts — Last Post 05/25/13, 12:47PM

Housing News & Real Estate Market

761 topics, 7197 posts — Last Post 05/23/13, 01:54PM

BiggerPockets Resources

Forums » Commercial Real Estate Investing Forum » Refinance deed restriction

Refinance deed restriction

10 posts by 3 users

Signup

Real Estate Investor · Los Angeles, California


I've heard it said here and elsewhere that banks sometimes have deed restrictions that in addition prohibiting resale, also prohibit refinancing for a period of a couple months after the purchase of an REO. Does anybody have an example the deed language used?

Specifically, I'm wondering what happens if a property is refinanced within that time period, does the owner take the hit or the lender? Could an unsuspecting private lender somehow lose the property as collateral for the loan?


Real Estate Investor · memphis, Tennessee


I'm not sure on a couple of your questions, but I think what you are referring to is a deed encumbrance. It does not state that you can or cannot refinance an REO purchase with this particular restriction. It states that you cannot encumber the deed with a lien greater than 120% of purchase price (i think this is the usual amount and it is usually the same as the 90 day sale restriction). As far as what does it mean if a title company misses this restriction and allows an investor to encumber the deed for more...? I'm not real sure and I don;t think they are yet either. I think a lot of it is going to be determined by the investors intent (did they borrow borrow profits?, did they resell?, did they also violate the 90 day restriction?) We've been trying to get opinions on this from different title companies and attorneys and many were not aware of the encumbrance restriction and none thought it would affect the investor depending on the intent. They all felt like any questions would fall back on the title company or attorney for missing it.

So I do not think the property can be lost, but again, these rules exist to prevent fraud so a lot of the outcome will be determined by what the investor is doing.

Chris

Small_new_mi_logoChris Clothier, Memphis Invest, GP
Telephone: 901-212-9647
Website: http://www.memphisinvest.com
www.MemphisInvest.com 1(877)-773-9998 Chris D Clothier


Real Estate Investor · Los Angeles, California


I meant refinance in the general sense of any encumbrance post transfer deed. I'm thinking of the private lender that, to save money, just reviews the preliminary title report and skips title insurance. If lender gets a title policy, any claims should be covered by the policy.

Interesting, Chris, thanks for your response. I can see now there isn't a easy answer, except to get a title policy and keep an eye out for fraud.


Real Estate Investor · memphis, Tennessee


I wanted to add something. Hopefully, I didn't make it sound like no big deal that a title policy can cover. IF you buy a property from FNMA and several large banks are doing the same as FNMA, you must make sure of the language in the deed restriction. The encumbrance is in addition to the 90 day deed restriction that many of us have become accustomed to dealing with. This encumbrance is also not on every home purchased from FNMA. IT appears to be a random thing (as of right now). AND, investors cannot ignore this and rely on title policies.

Small_new_mi_logoChris Clothier, Memphis Invest, GP
Telephone: 901-212-9647
Website: http://www.memphisinvest.com
www.MemphisInvest.com 1(877)-773-9998 Chris D Clothier


· West Palm Beach, Florida


David C,
Chris is right, the restriction is for financing the property for More Than 120% of purchase price within 90 days. For the exact language, you can go to homepath.com and look at the Offer documents and addendums.


Real Estate Investor · memphis, Tennessee


@Wayne Brooks - Any idea how long FNMA has been putting this additional restriction on some deeds? We know it is not on all of them and have no idea when they started.

Small_new_mi_logoChris Clothier, Memphis Invest, GP
Telephone: 901-212-9647
Website: http://www.memphisinvest.com
www.MemphisInvest.com 1(877)-773-9998 Chris D Clothier


· West Palm Beach, Florida


Chris,

Honestly no. I don't deal with a lot of REO's. I recently was tracking one down for a buyer that was FNMA. Most of my personal investments are buy/fix/flip, or buy/flip. I have bid on some lower end REO's, but haven't bought any.
But, for a fix/flip I don't see the 90 days as much of an issue. You'll usually have 90 days in rehabbing, marketing and getting to a close. And I'm not positive, but I think the 120% rule within 90 days applies only "without substantial improvements". I'm sure others here know this area better than me.


Real Estate Investor · Los Angeles, California


I took a look at homepath.com. The addendum seems to have the exact deed language but leaves the dollar amounts and time limits as a blank, presumably they will only accept exactly what they want in those blanks.

So, the way I read it, if, for example, a flipper bought a property with this deed restriction for all cash then the day after closing got a private loan in an amount not to exceed 120% of the purchase price, there would be no violation. Is that how you see it @Wayne Brooks?


· West Palm Beach, Florida


Yep.


Real Estate Investor · memphis, Tennessee


@Wayne Brooks - That is the way i read it as well and I too have no idea when it first was added to the addendum. We have seen some with the blanks left exactly that...blank! @J Scott is probably one of the smartest guys I know in this industry and he really helped me get my arms around this last week when i was first informed about these encumbrance restrictions placed on the loans.

We have since talked to multiple different closing attorneys and title companies in 4 states and all seem to be confused about the intent and purpose when it comes to an investor who is rehabbing to flip. In fact, none of the attorneys or title companies had ever actually advised a client that they could not borrow at the closing table. None could recall seeing it filled in. I think it is going to be a mess as it is ensnaring companies and buyers and tying them up when that was not what it was intended to do.

Small_new_mi_logoChris Clothier, Memphis Invest, GP
Telephone: 901-212-9647
Website: http://www.memphisinvest.com
www.MemphisInvest.com 1(877)-773-9998 Chris D Clothier




Sign up