Why I'm not a flipper

Why I'm not a flipper

Cory BinsfieldPro Member
Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 157 posts · 194 votes

The other day I grabbed $40,000 tax free from refinancing a duplex that originally started as an ugly duckling. As I was walking out of the closing on my way to the bank, I couldn't help but wonder how a flipper would have fared on this deal.

I'm not telling you this to brag, but to give you perspective from a buy and hold real estate investor who doesn't have a ten thousand dollar course and coaching program to sell you.

I must admit, the allure of flipping has crossed my mind from time to time. Brandon Turner, at Bigger Pockets, calls this the shiny object syndrome.

In other words, your are doing something that works and then you hear about an investor doing something else and start to wonder if you could be doing something better. Pretty soon, your all over the map with different real estate strategies and have nothing to show for it.

Beware of shiny objects people!

Don't get me wrong. I have flipped a few properties back in the early days of my investment career only to find out later that the taxes and time weren't worth the hassle.

In my humble opinion, you can't build true wealth by rapidly buying and selling assets unless you have lots of capital and a unique edge that the market hasn't discovered yet.

Once the market discovers your edge, people pile in and your margins eventually evaporate. This is the nature of the beast called capitalism.

In the stock market, it's called the Efficient Market Hypothesis.

Like Warren Buffett, I trade little if not at all. My holding period is forever. All my time is spent nurturing my little flock of golden geese while waiting for the right deal to come along.

When it shows up, I pounce and attempt to create long term value through strategic renovations, repositioning or savvy management.

Notice how I'm not fighting the market like the typical flipper. I don't have to find a deal to put food on the table and I can patiently wait for the proverbial fat pitch. I'm simply surfing the wave of capitalism while making minor course corrections.

Yea...this is some heavy stuff. Kinda like Yoda trying to teach an impatient Luke Skywalker how to raise a spaceship from a swamp by harnessing the power of the force.

Let's take a look at my ugly duckling deal and compare it to a flipper who creates the exact same golden goose but kills it for a fast buck.

Way back in 2011, the real estate market was licking it's wounds from the Countrywide Mortgage Subprime Hustle. The loan market was slowly beginning to thaw while bankers were hiding under their desks. The only people who could afford to buy were hedge funds and folks with lots of cash on hand and AAA credit.

As luck would have it, my flooring guy told me about a vacant duplex that was in need of major repair and the owner would seller finance for little down. The perfect pitch!

After a quick assessment, I was able to structure a "win-win" deal where the seller would accept $2,100 down and finance the balance of the purchase of $37,000 at 5% for 20 years with a 10 year balloon. The payment worked out to be $245 per month plus taxes and insurance.

I say "win-win" since the banks had shut me out of the market and I could only buy if it was owner financed. Being that I already had eleven conventional loans, I was forced to deal with commercial banks that were simply not lending due to the real estate crisis.

How bad was it? I had two Countrywide loans that were sold to Bank of America and a commercial loan that was sold three different times in two years since the prior originators had went under. One of the lenders was actually Lehman Brothers-go figure!

The seller was delighted since he was sitting on an empty property and would receive steady cash flow without having to lift a finger.

I closed in December 2011 with my favorite title company and started renovating the first unit in January of 2012. It was almost a complete gut job, but I lucked out since the owner had already started the remodel process and most of the materials were already in the unit.

The place needed new flooring, kitchen cabinets, gas boiler, new shower, bath, a serious clean out and lots of paint. The plumbing and electrical were sound and this is why I quickly made an offer after my walk through.

After spending five months on the upper unit, I managed to get my first renter at $700 per month and had my monthly nut covered. I paid the water and garbage and the tenant paid the heat and electric.

Note: The reason the renovation took so long is I have a full time job and I do this on the side. Moreover, I used tradesman that work on the side as well.

Next, I tackled the lower unit and pretty much did the same thing. After four more months, the lower unit was rented in November of 2012 for $750 per month.

Once again, I covered the garbage and water and the tenant paid the rest.

Finally, I was generating some serious cash flow. Combined, I was taking in $1,450 per month in rents less mortgage payments of $245 excluding taxes, insurance, utilities, maintenance and the new gas boiler loan payment.

Here's a breakdown of the calendar years income and expenses from purchase to refinance.

Purchase date December 2011

Upper Unit Annual income: First renter in June 2012 at $700/mo

2012-$4200

2013-$8400

2014-$4200 before rent increase.

Lower Unit Annual Income: Second renter in November 2012 $750/mo

2012 $1500

2013 $9000

2014 $4500

Total cash flow $31,800

Total Expenses from January 2012 to August 2014:

Water -2,040

Garbage -1,200

Property taxes -3,600

Maintenance and repairs -2,120

Total operating expenses $8,960

Net Operating Income (NOI) over 2 years $22,840

Total debt service $7,272 (including new gas boiler loan).

Cash flow after debt service $15,568

How did I pay for renovations you might ask?

I used the cash flow from my real estate portfolio to cover the construction. Total cost for all the renovations spread out over 12 months or so was $29,941. This brought my "all in cost" of the ugly duckling to $69,041.

Based on my market analysis at time of purchase, I figured the property could sell for $110,000. Fortunately, I was a bit too conservative and the market had improved over the next few years.

Still, I live in a market were duplex values have not recovered since the peak of the sub-prime mortgage meltdown.

On August 8, 2014 the appraisal came in at $139,000. I was stunned!

Assuming I could sell it at this price, my total gain (before selling costs) would be $69,959. This is before I factor in the net cash flow from operations (NOI).

Adding in the NOI it looked like this:

Net income from buying and holding since purchase: $15,568

Profit based upon appraisal: $69,959

Total return $85,527

Total investment out of pocket: $31,941 (down payment plus renovations)

Total cash on cash return: 268%

WHAT IF I SOLD AS A FLIP?

Assuming I could renovate and close this deal in 6 months, I would have to hire a contractor to manage the renovations with a time line of 2 months or less.

Let's assume it take six months from acquisition to sale since the average days on market at the time of sale for this type of property was three months in 2012.

Furthermore, let's assume the contractor needs a 20% profit margin to oversee the flip. Adding in this factor to my renovation cost and I'm up to $35,930 for improvements.

Here's the math if I were a professional flipper.

Renovation cost plus purchase price : $72,930

Estimated holding costs (taxes, insurance, utilities, payments ) $3,500

Realtor commission and closing at 8% $11,120

Total cost as a flipper $87,550

Total gain before tax $51,450

But wait......that's before our silent partner with the initials IRS takes his cut.

Short term capital gain tax at 25% $12,863

Self Employment tax at 15.3% $7,872

Total loss to silent partner $20,735

Net profit after tax $30,715

$30,000 in six months is still a sweet deal. The problem is I can't find deals like this day in and day out to create enough income to hit my retirement goal while raising two kids, two dogs AND making sure my lovely girlfriend sticks around.

Throw in a few vacations, college savings, some walking around money and my annual household "nut" is way north of this number.

What happens when I cash that $30,000 check? I have to reinvest most of the money into another deal and do the process all over again.

Worse, the more I succeed as a flipper, the higher my tax rate.

Imagine if I were super successful flipper like some of the BP folks on the podcast. My combined tax rate would jump to 45% to 55% and this would force me to hire more people and reinvest larger and larger sums to keep the operation running smoothly.

Dang...just thinking about this makes me tired. I'd rather be Warren Buffet who manages one of the biggest companies in the world from a drab office in Omaha with a staff of 24 employes.

Oh, he sits around and reads a lot while sipping Cherry Coke. Periodically, he hops on his private jet to appear on CNBC to warn investors not to trade a lot and simply buy the market and surf the wave of capitalism.

Come to think of it, I bet Warren has less staff than some of the largest flippers out there who don't even come close to generating 182 billion in revenue.

Did I mention he is in a lower tax bracket than his assistant who draws a six figure salary?

Let's circle back now and compare my check from the closing to what I would have earned as a short term flipper.

As you may recall, I pulled out $40,000 tax free as a result of my refinance compared to a hypothetical flip profit of $30,000 by refinancing the seller note and furnace loan at 5.5% over 20 years. The new payment is slightly less since I paid off the seller note and the furnace loan.

Yes.....I could have grabbed more, but I wanted to keep the loan to value at 60% or less for strong cash flow.

Over time, I will continue to net about $13,750 per year tax free by keeping it as a buy and hold while the tenants pay all my expenses on the property including the mortgage. If I do sell, I will avoid taxes by simply doing this thing called a tax deferred exchange.

How cool is that?

If I die, my kids get the property at the current market value. All taxes are stepped up and my kids can sell the golden goose or continue collecting passive income.

Take that Mr. IRS!

Best of all, I don't have to wake up everyday and punch the flipper clock to generate another $30,000. I can generate the same income by simply replicating this deal with a couple of more properties.

Yes, I have to manage tenants, field phone calls and lease the property every so often. Still, a completely renovated property is easy to rent and has fewer repair requests as long as you let the right type of tenant into your property.

Lastly, this is not my typical deal. Over the years, I've made my share of mistakes. However, the good deals tend to smooth out the bad. Fortunately, real estate is forgiving as long as you buy for cash flow.

This ugly duckling in now my golden goose. She's just sitting there laying monthly golden eggs worth $1,145. As long as I continue to take care of her, she will take care of me for years on end.

Don't kill the goose.

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Flipper/Rehabber · Greeley, CO · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y

that was a great read!  I don't agree with it, but it was a well written and thought out. 

I flip and have long term rentals.  It is true long term will build wealth, but flipping allows me to buy more long term rentals.  I have 10 flips now with an estimated profit of $349,000 after all expenses and that doesn't count the money I made on the commission as an agent buying them. 

Does it take work?  Yes, but I have a team to handle most tasks and contractors to do the work. I also have a real estate business that sold 200 homes, a blog that I write a few articles or a week and twins who are three.  The flipping is by no means a full time job.  

I have been flipping since 2001 and my father was flipping before that. We always averaged over 30k profit on the flips no matter the market or if other people caught on.  The good flippers will find a way to find good deals. 

As far as taxes, yes it pushes you into the higher tax bracket, but so what. My entire income is not taxed at the highest percentage only the amount I make over the thresholds.  Paying a higher tax rate doesn't make you hire more people and do more business unless you want to make even more money!  I would be making much less money after taxes if I didn't flip than if I did.  I pay more taxes, but I make much more money and that makes me happy. I don't care about sticking it to the IRS. I care about my bottom line.  

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Cory BinsfieldPro Member
    OP
    Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 157 posts · 194 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Reginald Perryman:

    THANK YOU! For this post. This should be the ultimate goal is to hold properties. Flipping is good for building capital. 

    Thanks for the comment Reginald. Not sure why the flippers are so frustrated with this post. For me, buy and hold fits my goal-massive passive income. Flipping is a great strategy for generating down payments or acquiring bigger and better passive income streams. 

  • Cory BinsfieldPro Member
    OP
    Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 157 posts · 194 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @James Park:
    Although I may never find flipping to be fun in real life. My wife and I love watching Tarek and Christina on HGTV! Tarek reminds me of J Scott in action.

    Anyone on BP that Christina reminds you of?  :)

    Nice!!!!!  

  • Cory BinsfieldPro Member
    OP
    Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 157 posts · 194 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @James Park:
    I think we are comparing apples to oranges. Flipping is considered active income just like a lawyer's salary, an ecommerce professional's salary, a real estate agent's commission, or a stock broker. These are front end money generating businesses. Your buy and hold real estate is sort of like building your 401k or retirement account that will pay huge dividends down the road so that you no longer need to generate active income and live off of your passive income.

    Finally.....someone gets the whole point of this article. I've been recycling all my profits from my day job to build an income stream that will last generations. While I didn't mention this point in the article, I could wake up tomorrow and say "I'm done." "Goodbye clients, I'm hanging up my suit and tie and going surfing for a year in Australia." My day job takes on a whole new meaning when I don't need it. Now it's fun! 
  • Cory BinsfieldPro Member
    OP
    Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 157 posts · 194 votes
    12y

    Ok flippers, let's agree to disagree.

    It was not my intent pull a Putin and cross your border. I simply wanted to brag about my deal and educate folks on why it may not be in their best interests to flip. 

    For those of you who think my tax projections are off base, check out this post from Amanda Han What Every Investor Need To Know About Flipping

    For those of you who think buy and hold is stupid but would like to pay less to Mr IRS, I would recommend you review your tax return this year for the following. 

    Did you contribute the max to a 401k,  SEP or solo 401k?

    Can you convert taxable interest or dividend income to tax free or tax deferred income?

    How about fully funding a 529 plan? 

    Hold for one year then sell at the lower capital gains rate? 

    1031 exchange? 

    Passive losses to offset passive gains?

    S Corp to reduce self employment tax?

    Profit Sharing plan along side the 401k? Allows you to write off up 25% or more of your income while saving for retirement. 

    Defined benefit plan? The mother of all write offs. 

    You are saving for retirement right?

    All of these items will allow you to reduce your taxes without having to deal with tenants, taxes and toilets-the curse of the buy and hold investor. 

    Finally......I agree with Mark Ferguson that you don't want to let the tax tail wag the dog. 

    Just to be clear Mark, I'd  rather make a million dollars and net $600,000 than earn $25,000 and pay no taxes. 

    That's a no brainer. 

    My point is this. 

    Why not net $600,000 a year for the rest of my life with buy and hold passive income and pay no taxes? 

    That's just the cash flow from his portfolio mind you. 

    Imagine the tax deferred appreciation potential?

    I know an investor that's doing that. He's my inspiration. 

    I get the same result with half the work.

    Do I net $600,000 as a passive right now? Of course not. That's why I joined Bigger Pockets! 

    Will I get there in the near future? 

    Time will tell. My goal is one million in annual rents. It's big, hairy and scary goal. 

    I'm just saying flipping seems like a lot of work (based upon personal experience) to build wealth when you can simply achieve similar results with less time and effort through buy and hold. 

    Plus, I actually love my day Job. 

    How weird is that?

    Given that you spend so much time up front finding the property (be it a fix and flip or buy and hold) why sell it after it's fully rehabbed turn key business? Just pop a nice renter in there in collect a monthly check for the rest of your life. 

    Why kill the goose?

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Greeley, CO · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    @Cory Binsfield if you read the flippers response none of them said buy and hold was bad.  But if you come out with a post saying flipping is a bad way to do business you have to expect some pushback and counter arguments.  Especially when you fudge the numbers comparing the two. 

    I have 11 long term rentals that make me over $60k a year. I bought those in the last 3.5 years and there is now way I could have bought that many without using the income from flipping. My goal is to buy 100 rentals by 2023.  

    The flippers perspective is you can make a lot more money flipping a lot easier than most jobs. Just because you pay more in taxes doesn't mean it is a bad thing.  I made a lot f money flipping last year and the taxes were no where close to 50% or 40% or 35%.  

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Cory Binsfield:
    Originally posted by @Reginald Perryman:

    THANK YOU! For this post. This should be the ultimate goal is to hold properties. Flipping is good for building capital. 

    Thanks for the comment Reginald. Not sure why the flippers are so frustrated with this post. For me, buy and hold fits my goal-massive passive income. Flipping is a great strategy for generating down payments or acquiring bigger and better passive income streams. 

     I'm certainly not frustrated as a flipper, in fact I am perfectly happy and while I disagreed with your posts and arguments which ultimately lacked foundation or fair comparisons, many of your statements tell us the true story and intent here. Your little tag line of "massive passive income" reminds me of what a guru would say. Judging from your profile, it appears you are a property manager with only a few buy and hold properties of your own. You are clearly misinformed, being a landlord is NOT entirely "passive".

    "Ok flippers, let's agree to disagree.

    It was not my intent pull a Putin and cross your border. I simply wanted to brag about my deal and educate folks on why it may not be in their best interests to flip."

    This line tells the true story of your intent, it was a post just to brag rather than help others, I personally find that shameless. Posting about your successes and providing others examples of how to get there is one thing, bragging and while doing so, bashing any other strategy is simply ignorant. Good luck in your massive passive goals, you take the road that suits you and we will take the road that suits us. For me, I am much happier doing both, not working for Uncle Sam and an employer with a 9-5 job, not paying 50% in taxes! and building a buy and hold portfolio 10 times faster by don't both flips and holds at the same time.

  • Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 4 posts · 3 votes
    12y

    I'm new RE Investing and i'm looking to see if I want to flip houses or buy and hold.  After reading this article and all the comments I can say that I now want to start with a balanced approach to RE Investing between Flipping and Buy and Hold.  Thanks everyone.  All your perspectives have been great. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    @Ozzie Rodriguez 

    That's a great strategy...

  • Real Estate Investor · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2014 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    12y

    Nice Post. Thanks for sharing your views...

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Cory Binsfield:
    Why not net $600,000 a year for the rest of my life with buy and hold passive income and pay no taxes? 

    Because you don't have enough cash to do so (according to you)...

    But, if you flip houses for a few years and then devote that income to buying rental property, you'll get to that goal of $600K in passive income much faster...  :-)

  • Cory BinsfieldPro Member
    OP
    Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 157 posts · 194 votes
    12y

    @Will Barnard "Judging from your profile, it appears you are a property manager with only a few buy and hold properties of your own. You are clearly misinformed, being a landlord is NOT entirely "passive".

    Will, I totally agree. Being a landlord is not completely passive. 

    Just to set the record straight, I am a property manager of my own portfolio which consists of 97 units and 29 buildings in my strike zone that I have farmed since 1998. 

    I can't manage for other folks since I'm not a realtor /broker. 

    I also don't have partners since I have not learned how to effectively create and run a successful partnership yet. 

    In  my opinion, the toughest ship to sail is a partnership. 

    All of these properties were purchased via a buy, hold, cash out refi for next building model. 

    I just don't want the members to get the wrong impression due to your last post.  

    Bottom line, I practice what I peach. 

    I'm sure I could hit my massive passive goal faster via flips and holds. However, I'm not a full time investor like you and like working my other job as well. 

  • Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    While I didn't read every post, I get the gist of what is going on.  I think it was @Mark Ferguson who said that he has 10 flips going right now with about a $349,000 profit.  That is most excellent and I applaud the results.  As for me, in June, I bought a package of 7 homes from one investor for the price of $500,000.00.  Appraisal's came back at a total of just over $800,000.00.  To top it off, the seller carried back at 4% with 20% down.  Rents are about $6,300 a month.  And the best part is I never drove a nail, never inspected a home, have zero employees, have no capital gains taxes, no commissions to pay, and increased my gross annual income by about $75,600, net income by about $30,000.  So while making money flipping is a GREAT way to make money, an investor can also make money buying "hold for flow" properties.

    Best of luck to all of you and your endeavors!

  • Cory BinsfieldPro Member
    OP
    Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 157 posts · 194 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @J Scott:
    Originally posted by @Cory Binsfield:
    Why not net $600,000 a year for the rest of my life with buy and hold passive income and pay no taxes? 

    Because you don't have enough cash to do so (according to you)...

    But, if you flip houses for a few years and then devote that income to buying rental property, you'll get to that goal of $600K in passive income much faster...  :-)

    J, thanks for the advice. Cash is always a challenge when raising the down stroke on a multi. I have been toying with the idea of the hybrid flip model (flip to buy and hold) versus my current approach of buy, renovate, refi for next down payment and hold.

    Based on all the feedback I have received from this forum post, it's definitely something worth looking into.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Greeley, CO · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Mike McKinzie:

    While I didn't read every post, I get the gist of what is going on.  I think it was @Mark Ferguson who said that he has 10 flips going right now with about a $349,000 profit.  That is most excellent and I applaud the results.  As for me, in June, I bought a package of 7 homes from one investor for the price of $500,000.00.  Appraisal's came back at a total of just over $800,000.00.  To top it off, the seller carried back at 4% with 20% down.  Rents are about $6,300 a month.  And the best part is I never drove a nail, never inspected a home, have zero employees, have no capital gains taxes, no commissions to pay, and increased my gross annual income by about $75,600, net income by about $30,000.  So while making money flipping is a GREAT way to make money, an investor can also make money buying "hold for flow" properties.

    Best of luck to all of you and your endeavors!

     Buy and hold is a great way to build wealth. I think just about everyone agrees on that one. 

  • Cory BinsfieldPro Member
    OP
    Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 157 posts · 194 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Mike McKinzie:

    While I didn't read every post, I get the gist of what is going on.  I think it was @Mark Ferguson who said that he has 10 flips going right now with about a $349,000 profit.  That is most excellent and I applaud the results.  As for me, in June, I bought a package of 7 homes from one investor for the price of $500,000.00.  Appraisal's came back at a total of just over $800,000.00.  To top it off, the seller carried back at 4% with 20% down.  Rents are about $6,300 a month.  And the best part is I never drove a nail, never inspected a home, have zero employees, have no capital gains taxes, no commissions to pay, and increased my gross annual income by about $75,600, net income by about $30,000.  So while making money flipping is a GREAT way to make money, an investor can also make money buying "hold for flow" properties.

    Best of luck to all of you and your endeavors!

    Holy Cow!!!!!!!  I've got deal envy ;)

    Not that it matters, but how did you structure the seller carry? Was is a long term note or a short term with a balloon?

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Mark Ferguson:
    Originally posted by @Mike McKinzie:

    While I didn't read every post, I get the gist of what is going on.  I think it was @Mark Ferguson who said that he has 10 flips going right now with about a $349,000 profit.  That is most excellent and I applaud the results.  As for me, in June, I bought a package of 7 homes from one investor for the price of $500,000.00.  Appraisal's came back at a total of just over $800,000.00.  To top it off, the seller carried back at 4% with 20% down.  Rents are about $6,300 a month.  And the best part is I never drove a nail, never inspected a home, have zero employees, have no capital gains taxes, no commissions to pay, and increased my gross annual income by about $75,600, net income by about $30,000.  So while making money flipping is a GREAT way to make money, an investor can also make money buying "hold for flow" properties.

    Best of luck to all of you and your endeavors!

     Buy and hold is a great way to build wealth. I think just about everyone agrees on that one. 

     Yup...I don't believe there are too many flippers here (in this thread or on this site) who would say buy-and-hold isn't a great opportunity for building wealth...

  • Flipper · Irvine, CA · Member since 2013 · 349 posts · 45 votes
    12y

    As a flipper, let's not break down Cory too much, his topic means well and no one disagrees buy and hold is an intelligent strategy. 

    Keep proud Cory, us flippers will continue as well and hopefully we will all get to our goal of financial freedom. 

  • Real Estate Broker · MA · Member since 2013 · 361 posts · 297 votes
    12y

    Flipping vs holding.  Is this the BiggerPockets version of Ginger vs Mary Ann?

    My personal opinion:  Do what you like and what you're good at.

  • Cory BinsfieldPro Member
    OP
    Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 157 posts · 194 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jimmy Hong:

    As a flipper, let's not break down Cory too much, his topic means well and no one disagrees buy and hold is an intelligent strategy. 

    Keep proud Cory, us flippers will continue as well and hopefully we will all get to our goal of financial freedom. 

    Thanks Jimmy. I like your style!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    @David R. There was a time that I lived by the idea that I would kick someones A_ _ if they had a differing opinion. However those ideas are old fashioned and seeded in prejudice and ignorance. Thumping is now gone until provoked. 

    What I have learned is that differing opinions matter if we want to have an opinion which matters. If everyone thought the same way ate the same thing looked the same way life would be boring to say the least. 

    However what does matter is defending the idea of difference. Even when it isn't a reflection of my personal values or a hindrance on my well being. 

    The post was started so slanted, ridiculing flippers it beckoned and cried out for the stand up and kick your A-- statements that the poster received. 

    What should have been stated is that this is how he does it and why, without the ridicule or comparison. 

    As an industry and society we should be done with telling others to sit in the back of the bus. 

    Hell let's just agree that there are all kinds of shapes and sizes and it is okay. If you run faster good for you if you run slower good for you too.  

  • Real Estate Broker · Johns Creek, GA · Member since 2009 · 870 posts · 664 votes
    12y
  • Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes
    12y

    Very interesting post since the usual niche bashing is wholesaling. Nice to see some change here on BP. :-)

    Kudos,

    Mary

  • Cory BinsfieldPro Member
    OP
    Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 157 posts · 194 votes
    12y

    Nice ????

  • Cory BinsfieldPro Member
    OP
    Financial Advisor · Duluth, MN · Member since 2012 · 157 posts · 194 votes
    12y

    Sorry about the ???? It was supposed to be a thumbs up emoticon. 

  • Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    Its not an either or situation, there's no reason that any investor has to be either a flipper or a buy and hold, you can be one, both or neither and still be successful in real estate. 

    If you're making money and happy with what type of real estate you're doing, so be it.

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