Tell me how you feel about allowing pets?
Wholesaler · Holiday, FL · Member since 2013 · 571 posts · 221 votes
I love animals. Well; unless they are trying to hurt me - then I don't like them. But in general; I have had, and enjoyed having, pets. But now I do not have pets. I don't like the smell of them, I don't like cleaning up after them, and I don't like having them as a dependent.
I have dealt with truly hideous things as a result of tenants having pets. And as a result of both things - I don't like the idea of animals living in any property that I own.
What do you all think? And do?
Do you consider tenants-with-pets a necessary-evil of the business? Do you forbid all pets? Or for that matter . . . . do you Prefer tenants with pets? <g>
stephen
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very interesting post. Just did a quick google search and found 37-47% of Americans own a dog and 30-37% own a cat. I have always allowed pets with a non refundable deposit. Yes, I have had to replace carpet due to pet damage. Never have had to replace doors, moulding, cabinets, appliances, etc. due to pet damage. The vast majority of the time when a tenant with a pet vacates I cannot tell that a pet had lived there. I have a clause in my leases that all carpets must be professionally cleaned upon move out and that pet owners must have house professionally treated for pests. The percentage of Americans that own pets is striking. I can't help but think that landlords that don't allow pets are really limiting their pool of renters and that an extra month or two of vacancy would do far more harm to their bottom line than potential pet damage.
Non refundable fee should be the term instead of non refundable deposit.
How do people feel about snakes? Personally I think owning a snake is a very strange behavior.
We've got a 110 gallon salt water tank (plus a 55 gallon fresh water AND a second 40 gallon salt water tank) in our own home. One of the questions that frequently comes up on aquarium sites when someone is starting out with tanks is just how much these things weigh "fully loaded".
Think along the lines of 10 times the size of the tank; the 110 gallon weighs 1100 pounds with water. This can increase depending on the amount of live sand and rock added, although the more rock, the less water...but as a general rule, you can use the above equation for weight.
This can be a concern for landlords if tenants say they have aquariums. Large ones are increasingly popular and it's not unusual to see 125 to 250 gallon monsters. If we had to be carefully placing our 110 gallon in our own home, you can guess the concern a landlord might have with a tenant wanting one in the rental property.
In addition, if they're "into" salt water it's not unusual to include additional weights from refugiums, protein skimmers, chillers, lighting ballasts, etc., etc., etc. etc.. Salt water tanks, especially when first being set up require fairly constant water checks so there's an additional risk of water spillage on carpets or other floor surfaces.
Gail
Our pet policy is: no dogs, and no animals that are prohibited by law.
My parents have been landlords since before I was born, and my dad has said "No good can come from allowing a dog in a unit." They chew, dig, scratch, bark, pee, etc., because that is what they do. My husband and I have agreed that a no dogs pet policy is the way to go (and my husband's family are all dog people). I am sure there are some good dogs and dog owners out there, but I have yet to meet one.
Regarding comments from others here about cats, well, cats are only a problem (pee, etc.) if their owners are unclean and irresponsible. People who are not clean and are irresponsible tend to be lazy about cleaning a litter box or letting their cat outside to do its business. People who are clean and responsible tend not to have that problem, so their cats are not a problem. I grew up with cats, and my husband and I have cats, and we have never had a pee issue with cats. Since part of our screening policy is checking the prospective tenants' clothes and car for cleanliness, we are able to weed out the unclean/lazy ones. Since we check credit reports, we are able to weed out the irresponsible ones. We have several tenants with cats currently.
James, regarding snakes, my husband had a snake as a teen; I do not see a problem with a snake (as long as it is one that is legal to own). The worst that could happen is it could escape and take care of any nearby rodents. :)
Kimberly T. Is there any reason paragraph 3 wouldn't be applicable to dogs and their owners? Do you have experience such that extrapolating dog behavior via owner's cleanliness and responsibility isn't a wise move?
Let's just say that I know several other families who are clean and responsible people, but their dogs still cause problems (scratching carpet, chewing wood, peeing, etc.). So, based on my personal (anecdotal, I know) first hand observations, that same correlation of cleanliness/responsibility-to-dog's behavior does not seem to exist like it does with cats. Based on what I have seen with cats and dogs throughout my life, cats are only a problem if their owners are a problem; dogs are a problem because that is just how they are.
Like I said before, I am sure there are some great dogs out there, I just have not seen one.
Hope that answers your question. :)
@Stephen S. have you had a chance to listen to the latest podcast (#78) yet? @Brie Schmidt makes an interesting and, I might add, valid point in favor of renting to pet owners in her properties.
Although, I agree with your point about pets being more trouble than they're worth most of the time. The other side of the coin is that excluding pets eliminates a large percentage of the market. I have asked tenants not to bring pets in the past in my rentals. The trouble is that they often enough do it anyway.
I'm not sure that I have the answer, but I wanted to add my two cents for your consideration.
Ahhh, like poisonous fish! That's more understandable lol. I don't have buttons. I'm a pet friendly person, and completely understand why some people won't allow pets in their rentals. Fish just really confused me though. Now that you mention it, I probably wouldn't let poisonous fish in my rental either. Who knows what'll happen with something poisonous fish, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen for a death in your property.
I'd prefer a tenant with a snake or other reptile over some of the other pets. My youngest son has a Bearded Dragon and you can't get a more low maintenance pet than Frank; he hibernates half the time.
My friend and I once volunteered to bring our retired racing greyhounds to be part of a sort of "petting zoo" at the local fall fair. Jean also brought her sons' ferret and her daughters' foot long boa constrictor (both in their cages of course). Some folks who walked into the tent would stop and....literally scream when they were 10 feet away from this benign little snake; like it was suddenly going to leap out of it's cage and attach itself to their face. Yet they'd go right up the ferrets' cage where the dang thing would then attempt to remove any of their fingers that would be close to its' mouth.
I suppose it was the difference between a cute little furry (but deadly) critter and that "horrible" but totally harmless snake.
Often the issue with pets and tenants is that, like the rest of us (hopefully!) tenants have to work outside the home and it's often when they are gone that the dog can panic and the damage can be done. I'd be much happier to accept a dog if the owner told me was crate trained (as I did with my greyhounds) when they were at work during the day.
Gail
I'd prefer a tenant with a snake or other reptile over some of the other pets. My youngest son has a Bearded Dragon and you can't get a more low maintenance pet than Frank; he hibernates half the time.
My friend and I once volunteered to bring our retired racing greyhounds to be part of a sort of "petting zoo" at the local fall fair. Jean also brought her sons' ferret and her daughters' foot long boa constrictor (both in their cages of course). Some folks who walked into the tent would stop and....literally scream when they were 10 feet away from this benign little snake; like it was suddenly going to leap out of it's cage and attach itself to their face. Yet they'd go right up the ferrets' cage where the dang thing would then attempt to remove any of their fingers that would be close to its' mouth.
I suppose it was the difference between a cute little furry (but deadly) critter and that "horrible" but totally harmless snake.
Often the issue with pets and tenants is that, like the rest of us (hopefully!) tenants have to work outside the home and it's often when they are gone that the dog can panic and the damage can be done. I'd be much happier to accept a dog if the owner told me was crate trained (as I did with my greyhounds) when they were at work during the day.
Gail
I don't allow pets in the multifamily. I say they can be considered on a case by case basis elsewhere. No snakes, even in a cage.... no iguanas, no rabbits. I do empathize with pet owners as when I was returning to grad school I found myself sitting on the curb contemplating what we were going to do about our dog whom we could not find a place that would take him. I am thankful to the stranger who noticed my distress and suggested a dog friendly complex. In the multifamily for us though it is a noise issue. The sound travels and I just can't risk a barker. For the single family I consider but no cart blanch. Your agreement is for the pets named in the lease. No replacements. I would like to target a house to pets as our next rental but I think I would still be picky about the actual pet. Despite family with Pit bulls I don't think I would ever allow them. Even the best can get aggressive when their owner is threatened. No undergrads with pets.
It is a shame person want a danger breed like a Pit bull as a pet and look at that? That little four-year boy in Fontana, California who was attached by a Pit bull and the boy’s ears are severed, and now he is scared for life.
Joe Gore
@Mike M. and @Robin Secord. Being pet friendly is fine if you go into it with your eyes wide open and do some practical things proactively. You could do well with this niche market. Some suggestions...
1. Rent only to responsible pet owners... check out what that means on sites like ASPCA and the Humane's Society. Your tenants need to be held accountable to properly care for their pet and train the pet well. Food/water, toileting, grooming, exercise, socialization and medical care are a few things to consider.
2. Harden your properties to prevent unnecessary damage. Pick flooring that can be cleaned easy. Expect urine and feces in the wrong places, especially with the younger animals that are not yet trained and older animals that become incontinent. Puppies can be the hardest on a property because in addition to excrements in the wrong places, they also chew. Hardwood floors may incur permanent stains from animals marking their territory. Be prepared to replace carpeting and pads and sealing subfloors if the animals do their number on your flooring.
3. Inspect regularly. Look for damage and to make sure they are following your rental agreement. Invest in a black light and a probe to detect uric acid crystals to identify where pets have pee-ed and where they may be marking their territory. The tenant needs to keep up on the cleaning. Here are some ideas from one cleaning company and many more great ideas are easy to find on line.
http://www.swanscarpetcleaning.com/Pet_Urine.php
4. Set up expectations about noise. Dogs bark and cats can get into loud cat fights. Have a plan. The closer the pets are to the dwellings of neighbors, the more you need to do to prevent a noise nuisance.
5. Have sufficient insurance. You need to cover your liability if the animal causes injury to persons or property while on your premises. Require the tenant to carry insurance as well. You may want to establish breed restrictions.
6. Make your property match the needs of the market you want to attract. Some considerations for dogs... fenced in yard, dog run, place for dog crates, etc. Some consideration for cats... a place for the litter box with good ventilation, window coverings that are not prone to damage (avoid blinds with strings that dangle and slats that bend easily). Talk to pet owners as to what they are looking for and use your imagination.
7. Establish an authorization process for each animal. Take a photo of each animal and note the animal's given name, description, vet name, and any other add other information that may be good to keep on record. Require the pet/animal owner to provide you with proof of vaccinations and proof of compliance with licensing laws for your area. Also, have a procedure for dealing with unauthorized animals on the premises. Clarify this in your lease or rental agreement. Will you allow your tenants to "pet sit" for a friend and bring their animal onto your premises? I would advise against it. Be swift with following up on lease violations. We charge the tenant a $50 fee for each occurrence for each unauthorized pet/animal which a tenant allows on the premises.
8. Compensate yourself for the extra work and potential risk you are facing. Many landlords will charge extra for each pet as additional rent (great idea). Many will require more security deposit (I would suggest making it additional security deposit and not a pet deposit, as you will have more flexibility in covering damages if you don't need to tie the damage to the pet). Many charge a flat fee per pet. Keep in mind, a animal can cause a lot of damage in a split second and the longer an animal is on the premises, the more damage that can occur. You could charge all three. At a minimum, I would charge at least the extra rent and the extra security deposit if choosing to rent to pet owners.
Good Luck!
"Why does it matter if it is an agressive fish or not? "
Ever clean up one heck of an aquarium leak on carpet/laminate/wood flooring? We have.
Gail
How does the behavior of fish affect whether your aquarium has a leak or not? That has nothing to do with how the fish acts, but the quality of the aquarium. I personally find it hard to believe you had to replace carpet, AND laminate flooring, AND wood flooring. If you did I can ensure you it was not the fish's fault! You specifically said, "Especially when being set up require fairly constant water checks so there's an additional risk of water spillage on carpets or other floor surfaces". Again, this has NOTHING to do with the aggressiveness of fish, or the fish's behavior in general, but YOUR ability to properly and safely set up the aquarium.
I would allow pets in my property if the tenants seems to be clean and neat, clean and neat people tent to have cleaner pets!
But at the end of the day it's what you are comfortable with.
You can also have list of the pets you'll allow.
My last tenants' dog or cat urinated on the wall-to-wall carpeting, which I had to replace. After they moved out, I found out from a neighbor in the condo community that their dog attacked her dog, and caused significant medical expense. She used her pet insurance to cover the costs, and didn't go after me or the tenants to reimburse her. As a result, I no longer allow pets.
My advice to any landlord who allows pets: be sure to have very strict provisions in the lease so that the tenant will have to indemnify you against damage to the property and claims by third parties relating to any act of the pet. Do frequent inspections of the property. Give yourself the right to revoke permission for the tenant to have the pet.
By the way, I do like pets (I have three of them), but not on my rental property!
" I personally find it hard to believe you had to replace carpet, AND laminate flooring, AND wood flooring. If you did I can ensure you it was not the fish's fault! You specifically said, "Especially when being set up require fairly constant water checks so there's an additional risk of water spillage on carpets or other floor surfaces". Again, this has NOTHING to do with the aggressiveness of fish, or the fish's behavior in general, but YOUR ability to properly and safely set up the aquarium."
I suppose you must learn this the hard way.
Folks who have aquariums (especially salt water) tend to do fairly constant water checks/changes since this is not an inexpensive hobby by any means.
Gail
I'm just starting out and only have one rental, but I will be giving preference to responsible dog owners in all my future rentals.
For one, I'm a dog owner and know how hard it is to find nice rentals that allow dogs. I don't want to be the hypocrit that always complained about that fact but once I become a landlord I do the same thing.
From a business perspective, I think it creates a niche that you can be really succesful in. Dog owners know how hard it is to find a nice rental that allows dogs, and if you provide that they will almost certainly be long term tenants. I will absolutely do a dog interview though and the dog cannot have any human or animal aggression. The applicants will also need to provide proof of vaccinations and will be required to have a renter's insurance policy that covers the dog. I won't discriminate based on breed or size either.
I don't have a huge amount of rentals, and I have only been landlording extensively for about 4 years. When we started, my husband and I decided that we would allow pets on a case by case basis. We collect a REFUNDABLE $500 additoinal deposit (call it additional deposit instead of "pet deposit" in the lease as it allows you more flexibility to cover any damage at move out--pet deposits can only be used for repairing pet-related damage) for each pet accepted as well as pet rent at $25 per pet per month. I make it refundable so there is incentive to get it back.
My experience with this has been mixed. The first person we allowed to move in with a pet had an American Staffordshire Terrier (which I now know is a fancy term for a pit bull LOL). Luckily the dog passed after ingesting some rat poison the dog's owner put out in the yard. However, I learned later from the neighbor that the dog was a terror and she had to give her own dog away because my tenants dog became vicious and crazy in the presence of other animals--it even chewed up our backyard fence trying to get at the other dog. Although I don't wish harm to any animal, I have to say in that case I was somewhat relieved. We still have these tenants and they have lived in the property for going on four years, so I don't know yet what additional damage has been done.
We had some tenants that just moved out and had a pommeranian. No damage in that unit at all--yet we collected an additoinal $300 in rent while these folks lived there.
We have some other tenants that we allowed to bring a 90 pound Chesapeake Bay Retriever to. The unit had old (but not too bad looking) carpet and we didn't do a lot of upgrades when we bought it, so we thought making it large dog friendly would be fine. These people are our best tenants. They have beautified the yard and the house, and the house doesn't smell like a large wet dog at all:) I was impressed by that, since I can definitely smell dog (particularly retrievers) when I visit other people's homes who have them. The dog is always clean and well groomed.
I think whether there will be damage or not depends on the people.
Some things to consider:
-I am more willing to accept a dog in households where there is one person who mainly stays home all the time.
-Make sure the animal is current on all shots, etc (indicates a responsible owner who takes good care of their animals).
-Female dogs are better, as they do not mark their territory.
-Dog must be neutered.
-Meet the dog with its owners to ensure that it is friendly and can follow basic commands.
-If the people are well organized and have good attention to detail, they tend to be good pet owners in my experience--and good tenants in general.
-Write in your least that tenants must have unit sprayed and treated for ticks and fleas and provide receipt as evidence after they vacate.
That is all I can think of at the moment.
" I personally find it hard to believe you had to replace carpet, AND laminate flooring, AND wood flooring. If you did I can ensure you it was not the fish's fault! You specifically said, "Especially when being set up require fairly constant water checks so there's an additional risk of water spillage on carpets or other floor surfaces". Again, this has NOTHING to do with the aggressiveness of fish, or the fish's behavior in general, but YOUR ability to properly and safely set up the aquarium."
I suppose you must learn this the hard way.
Folks who have aquariums (especially salt water) tend to do fairly constant water checks/changes since this is not an inexpensive hobby by any means.
Gail
We got lucky and learned from a friend who let a tenant have an aquarium so they got stuck with the clean up, not us. The first time you walk in a home where the tenant left early without notice but left the aquarium (after 2-3 weeks in summer with power off), you will never allow another one. And this was after an incident where the tenant's kid covered the aquarium with a cloth for some reason and it wicked the water out of the tank, onto the floor, damaging it along with the first floor ceiling. I certainly don't want to find snakes, ferrets, etc., on a move-out, so we just don't allow them. We advertise "well trained family dog considered, breed restrictions, no puppies" and that seems to send the right message. There are a few that still think you won't actually interview the dog, but once they find out we require it and stress to tenant candidates that we will strictly enforce our pet policy and allergies are a factor (for some reason, the allergy thing gets through to people), they tend to look elsewhere.
One suggestion if you allow cats (and please; only in rental properties with no carpet!)....make certain your lease specifically states how they are to dispose of the cat litter.
Had a very nice young military couple with a cat who disposed of the litter down the bathroom sink (not the toilet; the sink). After they moved out we found the sink clogged; the usual methods of unclogging did not work. We finally crawled under the house where Bill lay on his back cutting the drain pipe to replace sections and I lay on my stomach with a pan to catch any gunk coming out on him. First cut....nothing. Second cut....nothing. We had to remove the entire drain line from the sink connection to where it entered the outside sewer line; completely clogged with clay litter that was slowly turning into a cement version of the stuff.
Gail
I put in my ads that pets are case-by-case and subject to additional rent/fees.
I have had two tenants so far with a cat, and all is well. The places looked good.
I also put in the lease a description of the pet moving in with the family. They must receive written approval to get a new pet.
Dogs and cats MUST be neutered/spayed. I don't want to hear any of this "oh we're waiting until he's 3 years old" that I've heard a lot of lately.
I haven't had any dogs yet in my units, but I think I would like to meet the dog before any lease is signed to better determine if they'll be a problem.
I think in some areas, you almost have to allow pets. If your houses are targeting families then they usually have pets - at least here in my neck of the woods.
I don't allow the "aggressive" dog breeds or the ones that can do some real damage (i.e. pit bulls, german shepards, etc). I charge a $300 pet fee (i.e. non refundable) per pet. And however many pets they have when they move is the maximum number I allow.
I don't want to be the one that causes someone to have to get rid of a family pet. But if you're a renter, you don't need any more if you want to stay in my house either.
That being said, I've only had 1 really bad incident with pets. It was in a house outside of town (one of my earlier deals when I was just starting out). Lady turned it into a kennel. Had to replace all the flooring in that place. They also got evicted and then stole my appliances too (the only time I've ever had anyone steal my appliances).
I used to do pet deposits but recently changed to the pet fees - simply because I could. People will pay money for the pets. If they ask why its non-refundable, I tell them that the pet may not do damage that I can charge you for. But the bottom line is that the house is going to have more wear and tear because the pet is there.
Not much they can argue about. And, again, their pet is a member of their family, that they aren't going to walk away from for $300.
That being said, I did put my foot down last month when an applicant said they had 2 dogs and 3 cats - and they were living in an apartment. It was a family with 2 teen age girls - apparently on their way to becoming vets or something.
But even thats too much for me........
Well I allowed pets in a rental with carpet. (Is that laughing I hear out there?) So after 2 years I had to completely remove the carpet after the tenants left. I then instituted a no pets policy but I developed a contingency plan after my daughter had to rent in another city and wanted her dog with her (and of course her dog is different). That landlord took some convincing (and me signing behind my daughter for damage) but I like his plan - though it's tough. You better really want a pet.
$300 non refundable per fee, $250 refundable deposit, $25 per month pet rent
I have a good tenant who would like a pet so I am considering using this model. But I haven't caved to the pets yet.
Steve