Housing Veterans thru VASH which is similar to Section 8
Developer · Decatur, GA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
I recently started learning about the VASH program -- a program to provide homes and other support services to chronically homeless veterans a full service program. These Vets don't have rental history, credit history, and may have some jail time ... automatic "No" criteria for screening.
This program provides case managers and funds, vouchers, to get Vets set up and into homes. Deposits are provided to the Vets and a Case Manager to work thru work/life issues. Rumor is the rents are fair, vacancy rates are low.
Does anyone have experience or opinions on this program in your area? Atlanta and Houston experiences would be interesting.
Thanks,
Rick
Hey @Heather W. and @Rick Baggenstoss , sorry it took a couple days to have the time to write a response, its been a crazy week!
To answer Heather's question, the tenants are similar in many ways, but also different. The HUD-VASH program is intended to help the VA house the most chronically homeless and otherwise unserved veterans in each community. On average, this means that the veterans being assisted have poorer rental histories and are more likely to have fixed incomes, on average older, are more likely to be single persons, and have higher physical and mental health needs than the average Section 8 tenant.
Now, all of this sounds like a great recipe for an awful tenant experience. How could a program that takes folks that look, on paper and on average, worse than the group of tenants least loved on BP be anything other than something to run away from? The kicker is the VA support that comes with every HUDVASH voucher. Around 50% of Section 8 vouchers issued in the US expire before the tenant is able to find housing. Less than 10% of HUDVASH vouchers are returned unhoused. More than 20% of Section 8 recipients that do find housing leave the program within the first year, almost entirely for negative reasons. Though it varies by area, usually less than 10% of veterans in HUDVASH leave housing within the first year. As the financial and paperwork parts of the program are the same for the landlord in both programs, the VA support is clearly the difference maker in the program.
To highlight a scenario that seems to play out often in rentals owned by BPers, a tenant will decide its time to move in a dog, shady romantic partner, or acquire a new annoying habit that has any good landlord/PM ready to serve notice that they're violating their lease. The average Section 8 tenant may or may not listen to the notice, and if they don't, then you get to start the long, often messy eviction process. A HUDVASH tenant, on the other hand, has a Social Worker visiting on a regular basis, weekly at first, ready to nip those issues in the bud. If they continue and notice is given, the Social Worker is able to help the landlord transition the tenant out and into other housing or services without a messy eviction process. Often, low income tenants have little understanding of their rights and responsibilities as tenants, as they've rarely or never been in a stable rental situation from a reputable landlord or PM and have little experience with the paperwork and language involved from the local PHA or a lease. Having someone there to translate for the tenant and encourage the tenant to do the right things to live up to their end of the lease makes all the difference.
The similarities are good to note as well. Section 8 and HUDVASH tenants are subject to the same income caps in each area (though the caps vary based on location). HUDVASH vouchers use the same FMR rates in almost every locale, though a few PHAs ease exemption restrictions to allow for more attractive terms to landlords for HUDVASH tenants. The inspection process is the same for both programs, as is the yearly renewal (and if your area does an automatic offer to raise rents, those as well).
If this has inspired anyone to look further into the program, there's one more important distinction between the two programs: ease of recruiting tenants. A phone call to your local HUDVASH program to let them know when an apartment/house is coming available can open a sea of referrals to your units, which can help you keep your occupancy at a minimum. You can usually advertise your units through your local PHA to the general public (including Section 8), but there's no way to market directly to the program, or have the program continue to refer possible tenants to you in the future.
IMHO, a good deal for any landlord who decides the local FMR numbers work for their rental property.
I'd especially like to hear what @Bradley Bogdan has to say about this program from his perspective as a HUD/VASH case worker.
Can you compare and contrast your typical HUD Section 8 tenant vs. your typical VASH tenant?
Hey @Heather W. and @Rick Baggenstoss , sorry it took a couple days to have the time to write a response, its been a crazy week!
To answer Heather's question, the tenants are similar in many ways, but also different. The HUD-VASH program is intended to help the VA house the most chronically homeless and otherwise unserved veterans in each community. On average, this means that the veterans being assisted have poorer rental histories and are more likely to have fixed incomes, on average older, are more likely to be single persons, and have higher physical and mental health needs than the average Section 8 tenant.
Now, all of this sounds like a great recipe for an awful tenant experience. How could a program that takes folks that look, on paper and on average, worse than the group of tenants least loved on BP be anything other than something to run away from? The kicker is the VA support that comes with every HUDVASH voucher. Around 50% of Section 8 vouchers issued in the US expire before the tenant is able to find housing. Less than 10% of HUDVASH vouchers are returned unhoused. More than 20% of Section 8 recipients that do find housing leave the program within the first year, almost entirely for negative reasons. Though it varies by area, usually less than 10% of veterans in HUDVASH leave housing within the first year. As the financial and paperwork parts of the program are the same for the landlord in both programs, the VA support is clearly the difference maker in the program.
To highlight a scenario that seems to play out often in rentals owned by BPers, a tenant will decide its time to move in a dog, shady romantic partner, or acquire a new annoying habit that has any good landlord/PM ready to serve notice that they're violating their lease. The average Section 8 tenant may or may not listen to the notice, and if they don't, then you get to start the long, often messy eviction process. A HUDVASH tenant, on the other hand, has a Social Worker visiting on a regular basis, weekly at first, ready to nip those issues in the bud. If they continue and notice is given, the Social Worker is able to help the landlord transition the tenant out and into other housing or services without a messy eviction process. Often, low income tenants have little understanding of their rights and responsibilities as tenants, as they've rarely or never been in a stable rental situation from a reputable landlord or PM and have little experience with the paperwork and language involved from the local PHA or a lease. Having someone there to translate for the tenant and encourage the tenant to do the right things to live up to their end of the lease makes all the difference.
The similarities are good to note as well. Section 8 and HUDVASH tenants are subject to the same income caps in each area (though the caps vary based on location). HUDVASH vouchers use the same FMR rates in almost every locale, though a few PHAs ease exemption restrictions to allow for more attractive terms to landlords for HUDVASH tenants. The inspection process is the same for both programs, as is the yearly renewal (and if your area does an automatic offer to raise rents, those as well).
If this has inspired anyone to look further into the program, there's one more important distinction between the two programs: ease of recruiting tenants. A phone call to your local HUDVASH program to let them know when an apartment/house is coming available can open a sea of referrals to your units, which can help you keep your occupancy at a minimum. You can usually advertise your units through your local PHA to the general public (including Section 8), but there's no way to market directly to the program, or have the program continue to refer possible tenants to you in the future.
IMHO, a good deal for any landlord who decides the local FMR numbers work for their rental property.
I once, a long time ago, worked for Oracle. In our distribution center we worked with the VA and hired dozens of people from their programs. The jobs were basic warehouse jobs and did not pay a lot but the Vets coming to us were all recovering from substance abuse, many had been homeless and or had been in jail. Not your usual hiring criteria for a fortune 500 company.
Most of the employees we got were great. We had a few that sadly "Left the program" but most were hard working and grateful for the chance to work again. The VA really did a great job getting these guys back on their feet and making sure they were ready. I hope this new program picks up where the other left off and has the same quality of care.
I have some property coming up that I would consider for this program if the monitoring provided is sufficient.
@Bradley Bogdan You're a wealth of critically important knowledge. You should write an eBook someday. It's very difficult to get a feel for these program from a landlord's perspective without doing it or hearing from someone with a single good or bad experience.
I'm looking forward to giving this a shot.
By the way, there are lots of very successful investors in Atlanta that do Section 8 as a focus or significant part of their business ... totally different attitude locally vs. on these boards.
Thank you @Bradley Bogdan it is always good to have statistics to give to my clients. @Rick Baggenstoss agreed, many people I have talked to in the Atlanta area have come to find that Section 8 tenants tend to treat rental properties better and pay their rent in a more timely manner than traditional renters, likely because they are removed from the program for life if they are kicked out of the house. Although the VASH program enlists a lot of renters who come up as red flags, my clients say that most of their renters are using this opportunity for a fresh start on life that would not be available to them otherwise.
I just had a call in response to by ad for one of my properties. I am retired Army and a disabled veteran myself but I was not familiar with this program. I had mixed results with the one Section 8 tenant I have and part of the problems are with the local government management of Sect. 8 such as making late rent payments and acting as if it were a privilege for me to be involved in the program and their refusal to acknowledge or return calls.
This VASH program may be more promising. I have lots of choices for fully qualified tenants such as military and civilians with great jobs and credit so I have had reluctance to try programs where the tenants may be more needy of my management, cause property damage, of problems for my other tenants.
As previously mentioned, it is a good idea to double check how closely the veteran in the VASH program is monitored by the social workers assigned to this program. In our VA we've had a few issues of non-paying/problem veterans in the program but not many. It would be helpful for the landlord to have the contact name and number of the social worker specifically assigned to work with the veteran tenant in this program.
Gail
Hello, I'm a property manager and I have a HUD/VASH vet graduating from the VASH management. So he will be regular HUD Section 8. His income hasn't changed but he didn't need the VASH case manager. I think that free's up a VASH voucher for another vet. Should I expect any changes in paperwork, rent, leases and etcetera. I prematurely thank you for your responses