Holding Interest Deposit still non-refundable if tenant refuse to sign lease?

Holding Interest Deposit still non-refundable if tenant refuse to sign lease?

Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 6 votes

Accepted an applicant and received a non-refundable Holding Interest Deposit for my rental. I asked if he would consider a two years lease and he said he would after he inspect the maintenance repairs.

He did an interim walk-thru while the work is half way completed with his brother. Beforehand he told me his brother and his brother’s young daughter will live with him for a year. I told him his brother will need to go through the same credit and background check, and along with an increase of the rent for one year. After the one year term with his brother moving out I can revert the rent back to the original rent amount. He did not want an increase at first and then he offered $90.

I am thinking $200 more and since I had never done such lease contract before I had to do some research. Before I could even give him a reply he called and told me he was not interested to rent the place any more because the rent is too high. He threatened to go to a lawyer to collect his non-refundable hold deposit. Within 15mins he called back and said he would rent the place.

My first question is if he would not sign the lease because of any one thing on the contract can I still keep the Holding Interest money?

My second question is if he agrees to the rent increase for the extra people for one year, how to go about handling the lease agreement.

Thank you all in advance to assist me with this situation.

-Mary

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Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y

@Mary Young In our state it would not be legal for me to even make a "non-refundable deposit".  Holding Deposits are typically made with clearly defined written terms for their use and return.

Your post indicates to me that you are very new to this and do not understand landlord-tenant law. If you do not know how to properly advertise, qualify tenants, and enter into lease agreements (or rental agreements), then you need to educate yourself in this regard.

Return his holding deposit if he decides not to rent. No questions asked. Don't agree to take a holding deposit based on one offer and then switch the terms. It would not be ethical and may not be legal.

If he decides he wants to rent, then rent it for the original advertised price. Do not raise the rent based on the number of occupants. Your rental price should be based on the property itself, not the number of occupants. Of course, if the number of occupants exceed typical occupancy standards (such as two people per bedroom), you do not need to rent to the larger group at all. If you are paying for utilities, you could charge extra for increased utility use. But this all needs to be negotiated in advance. 

Also, I think it would be foolish to lock yourself into a 2-year residential lease agreement; it would benefit the tenant more than it would benefit you. In some jurisdictions the law would not even allow it, so you will want to check that out before you proceed.

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  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Sounds like he gave you a non-refundable deposit, so if he is backing out then you can keep it. You would have to return it if you decided he did not qualify after processing his application.

    For the lease just make it for the higher rent, then change it back when it comes up for renewal.

  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    @Mary Young In our state it would not be legal for me to even make a "non-refundable deposit".  Holding Deposits are typically made with clearly defined written terms for their use and return.

    Your post indicates to me that you are very new to this and do not understand landlord-tenant law. If you do not know how to properly advertise, qualify tenants, and enter into lease agreements (or rental agreements), then you need to educate yourself in this regard.

    Return his holding deposit if he decides not to rent. No questions asked. Don't agree to take a holding deposit based on one offer and then switch the terms. It would not be ethical and may not be legal.

    If he decides he wants to rent, then rent it for the original advertised price. Do not raise the rent based on the number of occupants. Your rental price should be based on the property itself, not the number of occupants. Of course, if the number of occupants exceed typical occupancy standards (such as two people per bedroom), you do not need to rent to the larger group at all. If you are paying for utilities, you could charge extra for increased utility use. But this all needs to be negotiated in advance. 

    Also, I think it would be foolish to lock yourself into a 2-year residential lease agreement; it would benefit the tenant more than it would benefit you. In some jurisdictions the law would not even allow it, so you will want to check that out before you proceed.

  • Real Estate Broker · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 99 posts · 26 votes
    11y

    If they are talking about calling there lawyer before the lease is even signed, maybe that should be a sign not to lease it to them.  Certainly, it is good if they have an lawyer review the lease, but threatening the use of a lawyer to get there way is not ok.  Watch out for this one.  Sounds like a pain in the *** to me.

  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    @Mary Young I was re-reading your original post and may have misunderstood. Did you and the tenant have a clear understanding of the terms by which you were offering to rent the unit? Did he agree to the terms and is now backing out? Or is he wanting to go forward and now you want to change the terms?

    A holding deposit can be kept in whole or part if the landlord keeps the unit open and the tenant fails to move in as agreed upon.

    I guess the answer to your question lies in what was agreed upon. If he defaults, you keep the holding deposit. If you default by failing to provide the unit by a certain date, in the condition and for the price you agreed upon, you would need to return the holding deposit.

    You could proceed to enter a lease agreement with the tenant as per your original intent. But before the tenant's brother and daughter move in, do the application and background check on the brother, as you said you would do. If you charge a higher rent because of the change in the make up of the household, you may find yourself in violation of fair housing laws. That is why I advise against increasing the rent at this juncture.

  • Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    Thank you all so much for your comments and suggestions.

    I like to clarify that he said he would consider a two years lease PRIOR to me accepting his non-refundable Holding Interest Deposit. The reason I asked for a two years lease is because he could not move in immediately, and I agree to keep the unit empty for two months and 1 week.

    I did not change the term, he did. He wanted to add more people weeks after I accepted his application and deposit. His application was for one person and not for three people.

    My husband friend set a $400pp increase. So I thought $100pp is more reasonable. 

    Back to my question - Holding Interest Deposit still non-refundable if tenant refuse to sign lease?

  • Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    One more thing to point out - he said he would commit to a two years term; his brother and his daughter to a one year term.

  • Real Estate Agent · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    Is the rental market so bad that you give 2 months to allow a tenant to move in?

  • Investor · Newark, DE · Member since 2014 · 245 posts · 198 votes
    11y

    I have never charged per person, and as @Marcia Maynard pointed out, it would most likely be illegal. You are not running a hotel...

    I would also not hold a property that is ready to rent in April (the time rental demand is highest) vacant for over two months. It just doesn't make sense, unless you are in a terrible market and even in April you can't find other qualified applicants. Other than lost rent, you have to consider the expenses (water, sewer, insurance etc) for those two months, as well as the higher risk of break-ins, vandalism, getting your HVAS unit stolen for the copper in it - however small that risk may be in that neighborhood, it is still there. And your insurance may not even cover a loss for a property that has been vacant over 2 months.

  • Property Manager · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 160 posts · 192 votes
    11y

    How about just sticking to written agreements, and making it clear to any prospective tenant that, to avoid any misunderstandings, you do not accept verbal agreements or negotiations of any kind... if it isn't in writing, signed by both parties, the "understanding" does not exist.  In fact, you should have a written sheet that you hand to the prospective tenant upon their first visit.  This is also your documentation trail of what happened, and usurps any "he said, she said" arguments to the court.

  • Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    @Mary Young To answer your question.... You can keep the holding deposit per the written terms agreed to by both parties, if the agreement conforms with the laws in your jurisdiction. Do you have a signed written Holding Deposit agreement? What does it say?

    Two things.... 

    1. Why are you proposing to charge more based on the number of people in the unit? That could get you into trouble with fair housing law. It is also not customary to do so by residential rental industry standards. However, if your rent includes utilities, you could justify charging more for each additional occupant and clarify this in the beginning when you are advertising.

    2. Why would you hold a unit for more than two months? Absolutely does not make sense. I would let this one go and look for another tenant. Make a clean break of it and return his holding deposit. Go with the original deal, or the deal's off. If the unit is still available when he is ready to move, he can reapply. As it is now, it might take you two months to sort this out and he still might not sign the agreement in the end. You would have a lot more to lose.

  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mary Young:

    Back to my question - Holding Interest Deposit still non-refundable if tenant refuse to sign lease?

    This depends on your state/local landlord tenant laws and the wording of your holding deposit contract, whether your state sees it as a security deposit.   If you have a signed agreement stating it is a holding fee, non-refundable if he doesn't take the unit on x date, then unless your state/locality has a law against it, you are probably fine keeping it, but you also probably have to honor the full holding period unless he signs a release, which he likely won't do without some refund.  If you don't have a signed agreement clearly stating it is a non-refundable holding fee, then I would just refund it and move on.

  • Property Manager · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 160 posts · 192 votes
    11y

    Why should she not charge more for additional tenants?  Not only does it make sense, but Georgia law specifically allows a landlord to do so... as well as charge extra when a "guest" begins to stay over regularly (the "disguised tenant pretending to be a guest")?  In addition, under Georgia law, if a non-tenant (so-called "guest") receives mail at that address, this is also a violation of the lease agreement.  In addition, the landlord can limit the number of persons who may occupy the unit, by stating this limit clearly on the lease.

    It would probably help if responses could be categorized under "opinion" or "fact" based on the law, so that answer seekers knew where they stood.  Else, the promulgation of misinformation and conjecture (that does not apply to the target state) could become very unproductive and confusing to fellow forum members in a different state.

    Georgia Landlord-Tenant Handbook

  • Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    It has been a challenge this time around with this rental. The rental should have be completed and ready for move in a month ago. It all started with us using a 'highly' recommended property management from my husband's co-worker who manages his 20 something rentals. This company's quote was close to the other ones I got, we selected this PM to do the painting and flooring was to build a relationship, and for us to increase rentals, and for her to manage. The owner of this PM company collected 1/3 of the deposit. Not only did her painter did a low quality work, two weeks late with the painter showed up when he liked, not more than 1/4 of the work done, she told us to get another painter when I sent her photos of the work. She contradicted herself all over the place and blamed everything on me. Right now not only she would not give me partial refund on the paint job, full refund on the flooring installation, she said she is going to bill us for the 'extra' work her painter had done. - - - This is a separate issue and did not think I should include in the original post. I was going to post this on a separate discussion to find out what I can do about this situation. It is a financial drain to have it empty for two months. I also do rather wait for a more qualify tenant than to take anyone.

    During that time frame two out of seven applicants' credit were good. The one who said he need it ASAP we could not rent to because of the delay in painting and flooring. So we accepted this person ( single person, good income, good credit, no pets and non smoker). even though the move-in date is 5/1st. We do need to make up the lost time and spend the required time to do a quality work. This is the reason the we accepted him. I thought we were following the proverb of 'Better to have a hen tomorrow than an egg today'. Hmmm....maybe I should let this one go and find another tenant.

    Yes. He did sign the application that clearly indicated the Holding Deposit is non-refundable.

  • Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    Lew, thank you so much for pointing that out, as I thought I do have the right to charge for extra occupant(s).

    Call me superstitious, I went and smudged(clear out stagnant energy and let the high vibration remain) my rental the other night.

    Apologize for my grammar! I have too many things to juggle right now.

  • Property Manager · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 160 posts · 192 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mary Young:

    Lew, thank you so much for pointing that out, as I thought I do have the right to charge for extra occupant(s).

    Call me superstitious, I went and smudged(clear out stagnant energy and let the high vibration remain) my rental the other night.

    Apologize for my grammar! I have too many things to juggle right now.

    You are not superstitious... just cautious.  Something inside is telling you to be careful, and you're listening.  I only wish I had done that decades ago.

  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Lew Payne:

    Why should she not charge more for additional tenants?  Not only does it make sense, but Georgia law specifically allows a landlord to do so... as well as charge extra when a "guest" begins to stay over regularly (the "disguised tenant pretending to be a guest")?  In addition, under Georgia law, if a non-tenant (so-called "guest") receives mail at that address, this is also a violation of the lease agreement.  In addition, the landlord can limit the number of persons who may occupy the unit, by stating this limit clearly on the lease.

    It would probably help if responses could be categorized under "opinion" or "fact" based on the law, so that answer seekers knew where they stood.  Else, the promulgation of misinformation and conjecture (that does not apply to the target state) could become very unproductive and confusing to fellow forum members in a different state.

    Georgia Landlord-Tenant Handbook

     Could you let me know where in this handbook it states a landlord specfically can charge more for additional tenants, even children?  When I searched your link, it specifically states:

    "However, the landlord cannot base the difference in rent on the tenant's race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability or family status. In addition, a landlord may not advertise rents at one rate and then rent them at a higher rate."   

    This sounds to me like it is specifically stating that you can't charge additional rent for someone with a child than you do for someone without a child (family status).  I believe this is a federal law as well as state, so I don't believe you can call it misinformation or conjecture based on a different state.  The way I read the info in your link is that your state's rules allow a landlord to set a specific, reasonable occupancy limit (I think it actually gave an example of no more than 2 people per bedroom, where 1 per room would likely be unreasonable).  Then if they've advertised the unit for x amount, they cannot raise that rent, but they could deny an applicant if they are over occupancy limit.  In Annapolis, it's much stricter with actual square foot requirements per child under 12 years old, different ones for over 12 years old, access to window, etc.  So I understand your wishing to avoid confusion from other states' rules, but there are federal minimum standards that prevail in every state, and families with children are a big protected class everywhere.    

  • Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    I do appreciate the recommendations and reminders to caution me not to violate any Fair Housing rules.

    The reason I posted the question is not because I to take advantage of families or single person with children. ALL the renters I had in the past have children and pets. 

    I never had this situation arises for an applicant to add extra occupants AFTER I accepted the application that listed one occupant. My last tenant allowed extra family members, three more people, to live there, and I was advised to notify them they broke the lease and they needed to be checked, added to the lease, and with extra rent.

    Please provide me a feedback to my initial question: May I keep the Hold Interest Fee if the tenant refuses to sign the contract. I think he now changed his mind to rent the place and at the lease signing he will nitpick the contract. I probably will not remove any stipulation then he can ask for his non-refundable fee back. I really cannot afford to lose any month's rent.

    After reading all the discussions additional questions come up for me -
    1. Can an applicant change the number of occupants after Landlord's acceptance?  Yes or No
    2. Does it make any difference to Landlord's rights to increase the rent if the additional accupants are related or not related? a) Yes, Landlord can change the amount if they are roommates. b) No, Landlord cannot change the amount if they are related or not related.

  • Property Manager · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 160 posts · 192 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Lynn McGeein:

    Could you let me know where in this handbook it states a landlord specifically can charge more for additional tenants, even children?  When I searched your link, it specifically states:

    "However, the landlord cannot base the difference in rent on the tenant's race, color, religion, sex, national origin, disability or family status. In addition, a landlord may not advertise rents at one rate and then rent them at a higher rate."   

    This sounds to me like it is specifically stating that you can't charge additional rent for someone with a child than you do for someone without a child (family status).  I believe this is a federal law as well as state, so I don't believe you can call it misinformation or conjecture based on a different state.  The way I read the info in your link is that your state's rules allow a landlord to set a specific, reasonable occupancy limit (I think it actually gave an example of no more than 2 people per bedroom, where 1 per room would likely be unreasonable).  Then if they've advertised the unit for x amount, they cannot raise that rent, but they could deny an applicant if they are over occupancy limit.  In Annapolis, it's much stricter with actual square foot requirements per child under 12 years old, different ones for over 12 years old, access to window, etc.  So I understand your wishing to avoid confusion from other states' rules, but there are federal minimum standards that prevail in every state, and families with children are a big protected class everywhere.    

    There is the HUD standard, which limits occupancy to two persons per bedroom. But, as you've pointed out, there are local laws as well which must be looked at. While it's true that you cannot (and should not) discriminate against families with children, those laws are very specific and are limited to members of the immediate family. A tenant, renting a one bedroom place on a solo basis, cannot up and decide to "get a roommate" if the agreement is specific about tenancy requirements. In addition, I found local ordinances that deal with minimum square footage required per person, per bedroom... so these vary from location to location. In addition, I found that some requirements do not apply to the rental of a single family home.

    Georgia State University Law Review, Vol. 28 [2011], Iss. 3, Art. 11 deals with occupancy issues.  It is not illegal for a landlord to advertise (let's say) a "one bedroom place for rent, perfect for two people" for $400... and then demand more rent if three people will be occupying it (unless the third is their child).  In addition, there's an entirely different set of rules when dealing with senior housing.

    The tenant cannot substitute a different tenant in their place, especially not if your lease or rental agreement specifically spells out who will be residing on the premises (as mine do).

    I want to also acknowledge that I came on a bit strong... and I apologize for that.  I let my frustration get the best of me.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mary Young:

    After reading all the discussions additional questions come up for me -
    1. Can an applicant change the number of occupants after Landlord's acceptance?  Yes or No
    2. Does it make any difference to Landlord's rights to increase the rent if the additional accupants are related or not related? a) Yes, Landlord can change the amount if they are roommates. b) No, Landlord cannot change the amount if they are related or not related.

     Hi Mary,

    In my opinion, which I'll explain below:

    1. No.

    2. Most likely b) No.  Based on their relationship.  But, you are free to completely change the terms of the contract, because once he turned down the original deal, all bets were off, and you were free to start new negotiations.

    First of all, when the tenant wanted to change the initial terms of your agreement, he backed out of the original agreement.  What he then did, was proposed a new agreement, and you counter-offered with a new lease agreement.  

    Second, I don't know GA laws.  But, if you can't discriminate based on familial status, this may include family such as brothers and nephews and neices.  However - since your first deal was turned down by the applicant, which he did as soon as he proposed new occupants, you were free to completely change the terms of any new agreement.  

    This is not a bait and switch.  Well, maybe by him LOL.  But, you offered a rental at certain terms, and were ready to produce it, just as described and agreed upon.  So, you didn't do any baiting and switching.

    In my opinion.

    BUT, where I see a potential problem here, is whether or not GA law requires you to actually suffer out-of-pocket damages, for him refusing to sign the first contract.  The rental is not ready.  So, you really can't say you lost money over him backing out of this deal.  If you could show that, then I don't see any problem.

    If I were you, though, I would not want to rent to this guy.  He pulled a fast one on you, then when you counter-offered, he pulled out the "I'll sue you" card.  My advice is to give him his money back, and tell him you're not interested in renting to someone who springs new occupants on you, and who threatens to sue when you balk at his bait and switch tactics.  People who do this are not a protected class.

    Let him go.  Look for a better tenant.  And good luck with your PM, yikes!

  • Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 6 votes
    11y

    Sue, thank you very much for your opinion and analysis. My husband agrees with you and suggests we should go find a new tenant just to avoid future issues this person may create.

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