I am located in Oregon, first time landlord. Our open house is tomorrow and someone has already mentioned they have Section 8 vouchers. My understanding is that it is an opt-in program? But that conflicts with the fact that it is "discriminatory" to tell people that you do not accept Section 8, or to refuse to accept it. I'm so confused. I am not interested in jumping through hoops to get my home "qualified," it would likely delay the move in and therefore impact my income.
Can I still hold the applicants to the same income requirements or am I forced to make accommodations for Section 8? That almost seems discriminatory toward everyone else. Would their voucher count toward income requirements?
Here is a local story, I'm discouraged by it.
@Amanda H., Under the new law, you cannot refuse a Section 8 applicant, but you also do not have to change your criteria specifically for them. As long as you use the same criteria for all applicants, then you are good to go. One thing they do mention is that you cannot "opt-out" of the program just because you don't want to hassle with the paperwork. See the links below for more information.
Discrimination on Source of Funds FAQs
Section 8 Bill
It's not legal advice, just bad advice.. You can't advertise "no section 8" in Oregon. Landlords on this thread may benefit from reading their own state laws regarding "source of income" discrimination.
Nowhere did I state to "advertise" not accepting section 8. A landlord may elect not to set up their property for section 8 tenants. A landlord may not discriminate on someone on the basis of the source of funds.
You said "you can state that you do not accept section 8". When and how do you make this statement in order to stay within the law?
I have a couple of duplexes in Buffalo and the management company i use believe they are unable to discriminate between section 8 or not.
I have a couple of duplexes in Buffalo and the management company i use believe they are unable to discriminate between section 8 or not.
Andy: you may have a PM that is being cautious and following local rules and case law. Discriminating on source of income is a real issue and some munis may be seeing more legal action on it than others. If I had to guess, I'd guess that Buffalo is one such muni.
I simply tell them I am not set up for section 8. Landlords are not required (at least here) to set their properties up for section 8.
I have a couple of duplexes in Buffalo and the management company i use believe they are unable to discriminate between section 8 or not.
There is a difference between being set up for section 8 and discriminating against someone for their source of income. I am not set up for section 8. I don't care where funds come from. As long as the income, credit checks, criminal history, etc all come back ok then I will accept the tenant. Discrimination suits (and many others as well) are very popular (whether justified or not). I have a written policy for my rentals. It sets out income requirements, credit requirements, acceptance of people with criminal histories, etc. I make this available to prospective tenants at the time of showing a property.
From the link you provided:
No landlord will be forced to accept Section 8 under this law, but no landlord will be able to refuse to rent to someone solely because their income is a Section 8 voucher.
This clearly states a landlord may not be forced to accept section 8 but cannot discriminate against someone who receives section 8 assistance. I personally am not registered to accept section 8 and don't believe I will do that anytime in the near future. I have enough government yoyos telling me what to do and what not to do!
The small paragraph you pulled out of that article seems contradictory in and of itself, but does not clearly state a landlord can deny a Section 8 applicant. If you read further down, there are more clarifying statements about a landlord dealing with a Section 8 applicant.
The way I read it . . . a landlord will not be forced to modify their criteria or lower the rent to accommodate Section 8. So, with all things being equal and a Section 8 applicant qualifies, based on the landlords criteria, then the landlord must rent to them, and the argument that they don't want to deal with the PHA and all the paperwork can no longer be used as an excuse to deny the application.
Section 8 varies.
Some areas the local authority is excellent and others it is a nightmare where the tenants continuously violate the lease and their section 8 requirements.
I agree with you in that there can be differences and one really needs to learn how their local S8 program works before committing. If I invested in an area where the Housing Authority was not a good community player, it would make a difference. I would need to be clear and firm as to what would work for us and what would not. Knowing my rights as a landlord and protecting those rights is key.
Fortunately for us, the Vancouver Housing Authority is excellent. They are respectful of the tenants and the landlords, process paperwork in a timely manner, pay on time, and provide guidance and counseling if a tenant strays.
Our Section 8 tenants are some of our best tenants, pay their portion of the rent on time, take care of the place and don't cause drama. Long term too... at 26 years, 23 years, and 14 years. We signed on another S8 tenant less than a year ago. You can't tell the difference between our S8 and non-S8 tenants. We screen all applicants the same, whether they are S8 or not. If we accept a S8 applicant as a tenant, then we do what is necessary to successfully work with the HA. Our market niche is low-income and fixed income folks in B class properties, so we see a fair share of S8 applicants. Not all qualify to rent from us.
From the link you provided:
No landlord will be forced to accept Section 8 under this law, but no landlord will be able to refuse to rent to someone solely because their income is a Section 8 voucher.
This clearly states a landlord may not be forced to accept section 8 but cannot discriminate against someone who receives section 8 assistance. I personally am not registered to accept section 8 and don't believe I will do that anytime in the near future. I have enough government yoyos telling me what to do and what not to do!
The small paragraph you pulled out of that article seems contradictory in and of itself, but does not clearly state a landlord can deny a Section 8 applicant. If you read further down, there are more clarifying statements about a landlord dealing with a Section 8 applicant.
The way I read it . . . a landlord will not be forced to modify their criteria or lower the rent to accommodate Section 8. So, with all things being equal and a Section 8 applicant qualifies, based on the landlords criteria, then the landlord must rent to them, and the argument that they don't want to deal with the PHA and all the paperwork can no longer be used as an excuse to deny the application.
Yes...leave it up to the rulers to be ambiguous. My takeaway is that you cannot deny on income source (that is already established) but you cannot be forced to go to the trouble of setting up the property on section 8 and jumping through all their hoops. Right or wrong? Some court somewhere will clarify that...until another court rules differently.
we have to be careful not to make the section 8 voucher holders some sort of "Bogeyman"
Do your due diligence but use the same standards for all your applicants and keep an open mind. There is nothing to opt out from, no one will force you to rent to any one that do not meet your requirements as long as your decision is not based only on the fact that they are voucher holders. In fact, the voucher itself is a source of income. A 700 Fico score will not help a landlord when the tenant lose their jobs and stop paying.
I have had Section 8 tenants who have turned out to be three times better than regular tenants.
I agree with you that not all Section 8 tenants are bogymen. I'm on Section 8 myself now in subsidized senior housing. And, of course, I'm a dream of a tenant :-)
But, Section 8 is a pain in the butt. Following landlord-tenant laws are enough work. Having another entire set of rules and inspections and paperwork to deal with, with a government agency that will make it nearly impossible to evict your tenant, and can withhold your funds for this and that - is really time consuming and a hassle.
So, even though I feel blessed to have my Section 8 voucher and that there are subsidized buildings that accept it, I would not accept it myself, if I could get out of it, if I was a landlord again.
If you aren't willing to try to comply with the law, then you will be in trouble. You accept the S8 tenant when they meet your minimum criteria to rent and then you do what it takes to work effectively with the HA. Not too difficult to do. If you don't make a good faith effort to do this, then we may see you in court... at least in Oregon.
If you aren't willing to try to comply with the law, then you will be in trouble. You accept the S8 tenant when they meet your minimum criteria to rent and then you do what it takes to work effectively with the HA. Not too difficult to do. If you don't make a good faith effort to do this, then we may see you in court... at least in Oregon.
I have looked and cannot find anything stating a landlord MUST set up their property with section 8. As previously stated, the "rules" seem to be ambiguous. And of course, there are often state and local ordinances that will prevail. Google the question "must a landlord accept section 8" and look at the number of answers.
In Michigan it is not mandatory to accept Section 8. I did for years but will not do so again. I dealt with 4 different housing authorities. Only one ever made a good faith effort to honor their agreement or to treat me fairly. Unfortunately, when the director of the agency that dealt fairly retired his successor was just as unreasonable as the directors of the other agencies.
@Amanda H.as you can see, lots of different opinions, etc. Your best bet for advice on this topic is probably a lawyer. Laws will definitely vary state to state and even by city. Good luck in your endeavor whatever your decision is. Landlording can be a rewarding business!
I don't like the hassle of dealing with the Housing Authority but I don't refuse to accept them. We consider the amount of their voucher as income in our screening formula, and they must meet all of our other criteria. As of Tuesday we will have two units on Section 8, located in two different (but neighboring) counties. So far it's been night and day in terms of working with the local Housing Authority, so I guess level of service varies from location to location.
If you aren't willing to try to comply with the law, then you will be in trouble. You accept the S8 tenant when they meet your minimum criteria to rent and then you do what it takes to work effectively with the HA. Not too difficult to do. If you don't make a good faith effort to do this, then we may see you in court... at least in Oregon.
I have looked and cannot find anything stating a landlord MUST set up their property with section 8. As previously stated, the "rules" seem to be ambiguous. And of course, there are often state and local ordinances that will prevail. Google the question "must a landlord accept section 8" and look at the number of answers.
My point was in making a good faith effort to not discriminate against tenants who have the Section 8 housing vouchers. If you refuse to even consider working with the HA that administers S8 isn't that discriminating against the tenant who has that source of income? Do what you will in Florida, but in Oregon I believe you would be taking on more risk. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. People in other protected classes are still discriminated against in subtle ways, so I suppose that will be the case here as well. No doubt landlords who don't want to work with Section 8 will be still be able to avoid doing so legally one way or another.
@Marcia MaynardI read your other post stating you have had some S8 tenants for over 20 years. That is excellent....nobody could complain about that. I have not dealt with HA and obviously don't want more paperwork and more government people involved in my personal life. I have more than I care to have to deal with at this point! There is a community just north of Naples that now requires inspections if you have rentals. That is another reason for me not to consider buying in their city! I own property in Naples, and north of the town that requires city inspection. I don't need these government slugs to tell me if my units meet their requirements! There are other cities in Florida with the same requirements and I am sure there are potential landlords that won't consider purchasing there due to the government sticking their nose in! At a certain point, it gets more burdensome that some wish to deal with. I have owned other businesses (which I sold) with heavy regulation and dealt with it. At a certain point, it was VERY NICE to send them back their license and tell them I would no longer be under their thumb.
.... A 700 Fico score will not help a landlord when the tenant lose their jobs and stop paying.
The 700 FICO score tenant will find somewhere else to live (relatives friends) to avoid an eviction and or judgment on their record.
The 500 score is much more likely to stay until you spend money to get rid of them!!!
I think more than the Section 8 Tenants being the boogyman it is the Government people worry about. Especially since it is localish government controlled. I have found local government types are worse than the feds or state because in the give a person a little power category.
I think the reason many landlords don't like S8 is because you are catering for a growing section of society that are the complete opposite of landlords.
On one side, the landlord is making prudent financial desicions, planning for the future, paying tax, etc. And then on the other side you have people gaming the system, contributing nothing to society other than huge numbers of fatherless children, getting paid to do practically nothing, and have an entitlement chip on their shoulder the size of Greenland.
We helped 2 of our S8 tenants get their voucher, we gave them lifts to the HA, we made sure their paperwork was perfect, we did everything to help them. They are nice people after all.
However, my wife was stuck in the HA waiting room one day and overheard a conversation between two sisters (one was there to support the other one) ; "you don't need to tell them how much you earn - none of their damn business to know your business - tell your boss that you need to put a lower amount on the income proof form".
As a landlord, I have no problems helping someone through the S8 program, but I do have a big problem when our tax money is given to someone who doesn't need it - and our house is used for that scam.
Keep in mind the 2 core aspects of dealing with Sect 8:
1. S8 pays for the rent, hence you have a relationship with S8. You can refuse to have this relationship. Mind you, if your tenant gets kicked from S8 for doing something stupid such as not responding to annual income verification request S8 sends them, but you still have a lease with them in place, S8 will leave you holding the bag to evict the tenant and recover lost rent from tenant. S8 doesn't sign a lease with you, the tenant does.
2. Your tenant that brings in an S8 voucher. You can't discriminate this tenant on his own merit against all other applicants. I always state min income req must be x times the rent, and that alone applied to *ALL* prospects, takes care of any S8 that will not qualify.
You can't refuse the tenant if they qualify, but you can refuse to do business with S8. You can tell the tenant, "hey listen you're in, but I don't do business with S8, can you pay for the rent yourself"? So, you don't discriminate at all against the Tenant as a person.
As always, local governments are crazy enough to creep onto you with some nasty things, so check with a qualified attorney.
I had a thought - and it hurt - LOL...
Would it be any easier to get rid of a problem Section 8 tenant, if you only used month-to-month agreements?
Do any Section 8 landlords know if this would work? I'm wondering if that might be a way to avoid Section 8 tenants, or to at least be able to evict them easier if they become a problem?
@Marcia Maynard do you know? Will the housing authorities only do leases?
no. There is no legal obligation to take section 8 renters.
I have 2 Section 8 tenants, and my frustrating part with them is the inspection. First is takes 1-2 months to get the initial inspection and approved, then the inspector (there is only one in my area) is VERY moody. Sometimes he is in a good mood and just tells me to correct one or two small items and passes me, other times he is a tyrant and is EXTREMELY pick about every little thing. For instance I have a tenant that has been with me for 5 years on Section 8 and takes good care of the property. Last year the inspector came in and wanted me to put a blind up in the window in the hall. It hasn't had one since she moved in. She even told him she didn't want one but he still wrote it in his report. Good thing is you always get that check on the first of the month, and you can use the threat of eviction to get some things done with the tenants (they don't want to be evicted and get tossed out of the program)
i have b and c properties. When a renter asks if i accept section 8, they're asking about the nicer single family homes. I'll tell them that i accept section 8 for my reminds and apartments. That's a quick way to trek then nicely to bug off.
Hello Amada,
section 8 is a government program and you have to be qualify by the section 8 housing authority first before you can be consider to access their tenants. I would go the hud website or your loacl housing website and read all about section 8.
I hope that will help
Anthony (tony)
Lot's of discussion around not accepting Section 8. In Illinois (Dekalb Co.), we don't have to accept, but from my perspective, I have only had good experiences with Section 8ers. You always know where most of the rent is coming from, and now the Section 8 rules are so strict that if they get kicked out of the program, it's very hard to get back in - a powerful motivator for being a good tenant. Plus, the Section 8 inspection revolves around things we do to our properties anyway - so no issues. I know this varies county to county in Illinois - so I can't vouch for left leaning counties like Cook (i.e. Chicago).
Just my 2 cents...
Best Regards,
Don