Eviction of an unwanted family member

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Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes

Need some help with this one...

Grandfather owns a duplex, he is 90 and not in the best of health. He owns the duplex outright (in Evanston, a suburb of Chicago) and has 4 children, one of which has a power of attorney. T lives upstairs (not the POA child) and grandpa lives downstairs. T has been living there his entire life and has become destructive to the family. The other 3 children, including the one with the POA want Grandpa out of the toxic environment. They are going to move grandpa out and list the home for sale and the want T out of the house.

He has no lease, doesn't pay rent....

Can they just move his stuff outside and change the locks? Call the police and remove him? T has recently threatened violence on the family and they may be able to obtain a restraining order

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Al Williamson

Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

11y

Hello @Brie Schmidt - haven't chatted with you in a while :^)

T has been residing there so long, he has to be treated according to your local landlord-tenant laws. Got to give him proper notice and get a court order to forcefully kick him out.

I always recommend matter dealing with family member be handled by a professional eviction service.

Sorry for al the pain this family is experiencing.

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Al Williamson
Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
Hello @Brie Schmidt - haven't chatted with you in a while :^)
T has been residing there so long, he has to be treated according to your local landlord-tenant laws. Got to give him proper notice and get a court order to forcefully kick him out.
I always recommend matter dealing with family member be handled by a professional eviction service.
Sorry for al the pain this family is experiencing.
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Account Closed
Homeowner · Signal Hill, CA · Member since 2015 · 521 posts · 70 votes
11y
http://chicagoeviction.com/2013/01/refresher-on-ev...
Domestic violence/ Elder abuse:
http://www.illinoislegalaid.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.dsp_content&contentID=5554
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Joe Moore
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2010 · 804 posts · 230 votes
11y
Offer T cash for keys.
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Kyle Hipp
Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
11y
Sounds like this is not your property right. I take it as it is owned by the 90 year old man and the son lives with him in the house. If that is the case I would say this is not a landlord tenant situation as he does not have a lease and has not been treated as a tenant. The situation would be not different than if grandpa owned a single family house and son lived with him in the basement. The son with POA acting as Grandpa should have all the right to move the stuff out of his house and change the locks and list the house. I would recommend that the family get the restraining order and request assistance from the local police department to have an officer accompany them as they gain entry to the unit, change locks and remove the belongs. See what they recommend they do and stress that this is not a landlord tenant situation, it is an unwanted guest in a private residence not leaving the property. That is my opinion.
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Randy E.
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:

He has no lease, doesn't pay rent....
Can they just move his stuff outside and change the locks? Call the police and remove him? T has recently threatened violence on the family and they may be able to obtain a restraining order
Sounds like T has no real income in addition to his other problems. He's not going to joyfully accept a request to give up the home he's known his entire life. Looking at it from T's point of view, where is he to go when he moves out? He has no options. When people feel like they have no options and they feel forced to do something, they will often lash out.
Regardless of the family dynamics, I think the powers that be need to get together and figure out a way to move T into a new place. Not really for what's right for T, but because it's the easiest, quickest way to get him out of property. The family can help themselves by helping T.
Maybe look around at local boarding houses. Maybe there are some very inexpensive efficiency studio apartments in town. Cash for keys won't solve the problem, because T would waste the cash and still have nowhere to live. Instead, give him Keys For Keys -- find a place for him, pay the rent for three months, and trade keys with him.
He won't go easily, but remind him that once the duplex is sold, the new owners will kick him out immediately and he won't have the benefit of having a place to move to with three months free rent. T probably doesn't know that he could drag out an eviction by the new owner, and T will believe he'll have to leave immediately after a sale. I think he'll come around and trade keys for keys.
Good luck.
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Marcia Maynard
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

http://chicagoeviction.com/2013/01/refresher-on-ev...

Domestic violence/ Elder abuse:

http://www.illinoislegalaid.org/index.cfm?fuseacti...

Thank you for sharing these excellent articles!
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Marcia Maynard
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Kyle Hipp:
Sounds like this is not your property right. I take it as it is owned by the 90 year old man and the son lives with him in the house. If that is the case I would say this is not a landlord tenant situation as he does not have a lease and has not been treated as a tenant. The situation would be not different than if grandpa owned a single family house and son lived with him in the basement. The son with POA acting as Grandpa should have all the right to move the stuff out of his house and change the locks and list the house. I would recommend that the family get the restraining order and request assistance from the local police department to have an officer accompany them as they gain entry to the unit, change locks and remove the belongs. See what they recommend they do and stress that this is not a landlord tenant situation, it is an unwanted guest in a private residence not leaving the property. That is my opinion.
Read the links provided by @Neil G. This does fall under the realm of landlord-tenant law. The Grandpa nor his POA can enter the unit, remove belongings, and/or change locks without serving proper legal notice and adhering to legal process. However, acting immediately for the safety of the abused Grandpa is paramount. That's where domestic violence and elder abuse laws come into play.
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Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
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OP
Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
11y
@Al Williamson
- yea, it has been awhile! Thanks for the advice,
@Neil G. - Thanks! That is exactly what I needed

@Kyle Hipp
- I think they are going to get a restraining order. I am not sure any physical abuse occurred but I am not privy to the entire story
@randy - That is the other issue, he has nowhere to go and even if they evict him legally he will still probably come back. I will suggest the renting a place for a few months to get him out
@Marcia Maynard
- Thanks for all the advice. I am going to suggest a legal eviction, with a restraining order, and renting him a place for a few months so he has somewhere to go
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Account Closed
Homeowner · Signal Hill, CA · Member since 2015 · 521 posts · 70 votes
11y
Dear Brie,
Good luck with the eviction and like Marcia mentioned, acting immediately for the sake of Grandpappy's safety is paramount..
Godspeed!
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Kyle Hipp
Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
11y
@Marcia M, I am curious as to why you think this falls under a strict landlord tenant situation. At least in my state, most others I believe as well, there are different rules regarding roommates in an owner occupied house and even for a landlord that lives in one half of a duplex and rents out the other half to another person (unrelated). The living in one half of an owner occupied and renting out the other unit to another unrelated occupant doesn't offer a ton more freedom but a little more personal preference and leeway. That wouldn't apply here either. I see this as a roommate situation but there isn't even a semblance of a lease so no consideration making the son a tenant in anyway. The only confusing factor is that this property just happens to have a separate locked entry. I do not have to evict my son from my house if I don't want him living with me once he turns 18 and neither does this man.
My concern with going the eviction route is that it give legitimacy to the sons claim that he is a tenant. If the POA is already looking at spending a decent amount of money to get rid of him then I would contact a lawyer for a quick consult on framing the discussion the way I did.
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Karen C.
South Bend, IN · Member since 2014 · 12 posts · 1 vote
11y
Sort of going through this right now with my sister. She needs to get out of my dad's house, his health is failing him and she is abusing him. I was informed by local police that POA has right to say who lives in the house. Good luck.
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Account Closed
San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Kyle Hipp:

@Marcia M, I am curious as to why you think this falls under a strict landlord tenant situation. At least in my state, most others I believe as well, there are different rules regarding roommates in an owner occupied house and even for a landlord that lives in one half of a duplex and rents out the other half to another person (unrelated). The living in one half of an owner occupied and renting out the other unit to another unrelated occupant doesn't offer a ton more freedom but a little more personal preference and leeway. That wouldn't apply here either. I see this as a roommate situation but there isn't even a semblance of a lease so no consideration making the son a tenant in anyway. The only confusing factor is that this property just happens to have a separate locked entry. I do not have to evict my son from my house if I don't want him living with me once he turns 18 and neither does this man.
My concern with going the eviction route is that it give legitimacy to the sons claim that he is a tenant. If the POA is already looking at spending a decent amount of money to get rid of him then I would contact a lawyer for a quick consult on framing the discussion the way I did.
Anyone who is not an owner of the property and is an adult is a tenant or legal occupant, and if they refuse to leave, you - legally - have to go through the appropriate eviction procedures.
You could lock him out, but if he gets a lawyer and fights it, you'll have to let him back in and evict him properly.
At least that's my understanding. Perhaps it's a different law in some places.
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Account Closed
San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

http://chicagoeviction.com/2013/01/refresher-on-ev...

Domestic violence/ Elder abuse:

http://www.illinoislegalaid.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.dsp_content&contentID=5554

Great links! The first one explaining that you have to legally evict relatives is great, whether someone lived in Illinois or not. Same for the one explaining how victims of abuse can break their leases. Good links to bookmark.
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Joe Moore
Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2010 · 804 posts · 230 votes
11y
A new place to live with multiple prepaid months and some cash will probably be the best option.
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Kyle Hipp
Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
11y
I guess I should have read.
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Account Closed
Investor · Mount Pleasant, SC · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 21 votes
11y
In Virginia, anyone living in a residence for more than 30 days has expectation of residency, and must be evicted. Not considering the possible assault, police will not get involved in removing the resident (T), as it is a civil matter. Sure, you could lock him out, but he has the legal right to break down the door to gain entry into his own residence.
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Account Closed
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Kyle Hipp:

@Marcia M, I am curious as to why you think this falls under a strict landlord tenant situation. At least in my state, most others I believe as well, there are different rules regarding roommates in an owner occupied house and even for a landlord that lives in one half of a duplex and rents out the other half to another person (unrelated). The living in one half of an owner occupied and renting out the other unit to another unrelated occupant doesn't offer a ton more freedom but a little more personal preference and leeway. That wouldn't apply here either. I see this as a roommate situation but there isn't even a semblance of a lease so no consideration making the son a tenant in anyway. The only confusing factor is that this property just happens to have a separate locked entry. I do not have to evict my son from my house if I don't want him living with me once he turns 18 and neither does this man.
My concern with going the eviction route is that it give legitimacy to the sons claim that he is a tenant. If the POA is already looking at spending a decent amount of money to get rid of him then I would contact a lawyer for a quick consult on framing the discussion the way I did.
In CA any one claiming a tenancy right retains that right until you prove otherwise. You have to formally evict anyone claiming a right to residency. That includes a roommate or boarder in the same unit. It includes a tenant or relative with or without a lease. The police don't remove people claiming tenancy rights unless they are an immediate physical harm to themselves or other. Filing for eviction doesn't add credibility to a tenant's case.
Hopefully, in this case, if the grandfather is truly at risk, one of the children will call the police and go to court to get a restraining order. The children should also call adult protective services if they believe any kind of abuse or coercion is going on, including financial.
Gotta say though, the fact that the family has informed Brie all of these issues and she's the one asking questions and trying to help suggests that the family probably has a high tolerance for T.'s antics. Which suggests a certain level of dysfunction on everyone's part. If the grandfather is really at risk, physical or financial, Brie should be calling adult protective services asap.
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Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
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OP
Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Originally posted by @Kyle Hipp:
Gotta say though, the fact that the family has informed Brie all of these issues and she's the one asking questions and trying to help suggests that the family probably has a high tolerance for T.'s antics. Which suggests a certain level of dysfunction on everyone's part. If the grandfather is really at risk, physical or financial, Brie should be calling adult protective services asap.
From my understanding, there was never physical violence. Most of the threats by T were verbal and against the siblings, but they don't want to risk it. Again, I know very little of the details just that they wanted to know if they have to evict him or can just lock him out.
I sent them the links provided which explains they do have to evict him, and they will start once the grandpa is safely out
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Account Closed
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:

Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Kyle Hipp:

Gotta say though, the fact that the family has informed Brie all of these issues and she's the one asking questions and trying to help suggests that the family probably has a high tolerance for T.'s antics. Which suggests a certain level of dysfunction on everyone's part. If the grandfather is really at risk, physical or financial, Brie should be calling adult protective services asap.
From my understanding, there was never physical violence. Most of the threats by T were verbal and against the siblings, but they don't want to risk it. Again, I know very little of the details just that they wanted to know if they have to evict him or can just lock him out.
I sent them the links provided which explains they do have to evict him, and they will start once the grandpa is safely out
Indeed, T. needs to be lawfully evicted.
The reason I mentioned dysfunction is because there appears to be a level of acceptable fear on the part of the siblings. Think about it. How long would you tolerate your elderly parent living in the same building with anyone threatening anything? I haven't met you, but I'm guessing you would not tolerate it for five minutes. :)
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Dawn AnastasiPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y
You could always appeal to someone's greedy side. Tell them there is someone interested in buying the grandfather's house, but they want to buy it empty. If they buy the house there's money coming to T. Essentially cash for keys, but perhaps greed in getting money will entice that person to leave?
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Account Closed
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Dawn Anastasi:

You could always appeal to someone's greedy side. Tell them there is someone interested in buying the grandfather's house, but they want to buy it empty. If they buy the house there's money coming to T. Essentially cash for keys, but perhaps greed in getting money will entice that person to leave?
I can always tell the landlords and buyers on BP who haven't encountered an entrenched tenant or seller. They always have rational suggestions. Like cash. Like storage. Like other units to live in. Like lawyer letters.
My experience in many, many similar situations is that cash is NOT a motivating factor. Some people aren't going. Anywhere. Ever. I don't think I can explain it properly as there are too many variables. You have to understand when money doesn't speak. Hopefully it's one of those things you'll never experience. Unless you market yourself as someone who will take over such situations. There's riches in those situations. But man oh man it will teach you quick to get over rationality when coming up with a solution.
Speaking of which, did Mehran's holdover tenant eventually go, peaceably?
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Dave Fontana
Rental Property Investor · Western Carolina · Member since 2010 · 144 posts · 66 votes
11y
@Brie Schmidt
Tough situation!!! This person is basically you Aunt or Uncle. You definitely cant move there stuff out on the street. Someone mentioned cash for keys. I like that but for this T, I think a basic, old fashion eviction would be best. If the person is entitle to a quarter portion, I would hold that over there head if further violence is treated or acted on.
I would get Grandpa out asap. Let the attorneys to the rest.
Good Luck!!
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Dawn AnastasiPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Speaking of which, did Mehran's holdover tenant eventually go, peaceably?
Are you referring to the one from the short sale? We kept her on as a tenant.
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Account Closed
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Dawn Anastasi:

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Speaking of which, did Mehran's holdover tenant eventually go, peaceably?
Are you referring to the one from the short sale? We kept her on as a tenant.
I think it was a short sale, but I remember a 3 month agreement at something like $700. Did she work out as a long-term tenant? Love when that happens with previous owners. So rare.
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Joel W.
Investor · Eastlake, OH · Member since 2015 · 174 posts · 85 votes
11y
@Brie Schmidt
I heard you say, on the podcast that you were the guest, that you never had to deal with an eviction. I'm sorry to hear that it has finally come from someone in your family. I'm sorry to say sometimes family are the ones that put us in the most difficult sitution. You can't screen your family.
But If I'd screened my family I probably would have chose easy people and an easy life, and.... I'd be a shitbag with no motivation or character.
Praying for you in this particualr situation.
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