RE: Nightmare Tenant?

RE: Nightmare Tenant?

Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 35 posts · 1 vote

I'm sure everyone here as some version of this story...I'm wondering if anyone has some feedback for my specific case. I'll try to keep it short (ish)! 

I'm posting this as my PM and I have different thoughts on approaching this situation, so that makes me scratch my head.

I have tenant that I've inherited that is challenging.

They have been in the property over 4 years, prior to purchasing. Rents were below market. House needed a lot of work. We started exterior work as soon as possible to keep water incursion from happening, fixed roof issues, etc, all with very minimal impact on the tenants. Previous PM was terrible at managing the owners' interests, from what I could see, and owners hadn't been doing anything much to keep up the property. No issues with the tenant paying rent, from the information I have, and that hasn't been a problem since I've owned the property.

We gave 90 day notice to increase rents, and that we were going to do some remodeling on the interior of their unit, as part of that notice, and we sent the tenant a new lease to review (tenant has been MTM for awhile) as part of this process.

The tenant flipped out, and has let us know that they are unhappy in so many ways, they won't pay a higher rent, etc. I'll spare the details of long emails and voice mails that they have sent threatening us with all sort of legal action, etc. if we do anything to work on the unit that disturbs their well-being, or do anything that seems retaliatory. So, I've pretty much stayed away from the property, and once we had completed the essential work, I've held off on everything else.

My PM is great at doing things by the book, so we are all in the clear in the approach taken in regards to Tenant/Landlord law, notice provided, etc.

And along the way in the past few months, the tenant informed us they had no intent to stay, without providing any specific notice they were vacating. 

My PM kept checking in as we got closer to the end of the 90 days to see what they were signing or moving out, without any response. Finally, two days ago, the tenant informs us they are moving out, that they have purchased a house, and it's going to close in the middle of July. The tenant asked if they could stay until the middle of the month until the deal on the house closes. They also insisted (this is the typical MO), that they didn't want to pay any more than their current rate to stay those 15 days. The tenant didn't give enough notice, so I know technically we have no obligations to extend unless the tenant chooses to sign the lease we've already provided.

My initial thought was that this was good news, and that the extra 15 days is not a big deal as opposed to some long drawn out contentious situation. Whether the rent was the new rent or the old rent was a negotiable topic to me, as long as we were set on the 15 days. I really can't do anything to the unit, until they move out, and that does provide some challenges, but in my mind a small price to pay to move on, and have a chance to start working on the property.

The issue is this...

My PM thinks the tenant is completely lying (they definitely has made some statements to me that are patently untrue so I do know they are manipulative) or that it's likely the sale will not go through. My PM is really insisting it's more likely the former.

The PM thinks the best course of action is to stick with what we offered the tenant - the tenant hasn't given notice so they either sign the new lease or leaves come July, regardless of what else is or isn't going on in their life. The PM thinks it isn't real, or unlikely to happen, and we'll be in a gray area of a hold-over tenant that could continue to manipulate the situation to their advantage, and make this whole process even more of a nightmare.

One thing - I've done my homework, and the tenant does appear to be not shy of getting contentious. There are multiple public instances of them pursuing legal action. I know we have proceeded correctly, but still I don't see any reason to get into a battle even if you're going to win, if the battle can be avoided in the first place.

My thought was to provide with some sort of written extension of the current month to month for 15 days, then change the date on the new lease for the 16th of July. Kick the can down the road if the tenant is really lying or it falls through, and hopefully not leave us in a weaker position, and if they are telling the truth, then great, the problem is resolved. I think the paperwork could be clear, but the PM thinks it could create issues.

I'd appreciate any thoughts from anyone on how they might approach this situation. Perhaps there is a more creative solution?

Thanks for reading my (short) version of my nightmare tenant.

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Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 1 vote
10y

listen to your PM

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  • Retired Landlord/Author · Commerce Township, MI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Your PM is EXACTLY RIGHT!   Listen to him or her. 

    Nancy Neville

  • Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    listen to your PM

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    Also believe you should listen to your PM.

  • St Thomas, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 575 posts · 408 votes
    10y

    @Glen Gaidos I read your post before reading the other responses, and I have to join the chorus - your property manager is correct. The key is that if they do not go and move into their claimed new home you will have let them stay at the current rate and lost the chance to get them to live with a lease of your choosing. These tenants sound pretty wily to me, and you say that they are litigious. I think the standard boxing referee's instructions to fighters that they protect themselves at all times makes a lot of sense in your situation. So, your property manager is right. Don't try any DIY solutions, follow the advice you are paying for.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    I agree.  Your PM is right.  You will not avoid a battle by letting this tenant stay.  What you'll get is an even uglier war.

    And really, why would you do this PITA any favors?  She sure didn't care about your needs, and now you're supposed to care about hers?  After giving her an unheard of amount of notice?  

    Anyway, trust those who know the signs of what is likely to come from you giving this tenant any leeway.  And when she calls or wants to discuss anything, send her to your PM.  Don't fall for the tears about how they'll have to put stuff in storage, yatta yatta.  

    Sometimes I think it's our job in the universe to provide someone with a consequence.  If she's inconvenienced because she asked a favor of someone she treated badly, and that person said no because why should they be nice to someone who has treated them badly?...then they got what they should have gotten.  A fitting consequence.  I can't stand bullies.

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 35 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    THANKS, THANKS, THANKS everyone for the great input. It's much appreciated, and I think like some sort of Occam's razor, that the simplest solution is usually the best, even if it's not the easiest.

    Yeah, I've learned some hard lessons from this, and the value of a PM (and also the limitations). I think in this case, I've been extra concerned, as I set a bad precedent before the PM came on board, because I had been assuming the best, rather than the worst of the inherited tenants (always assume the worst), and the PM also sort of bungled the transition a bit, and I know they're really not on the hook - I am. In any case, we've been clear, and we just need to move forward, and if legal actions ensue, so be it. 

    Thanks again to you excellent BP'ers!

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