Investor · Greensburg, PA · Member since 2015 · 16 posts · 2 votes
I have one property, a house. my husband and I hired a property management company last year. From day one, they have been awful, irresponsible, etc. Long story short, the lease is up, the renters are moving. The PMC will not return my calls. My husband and I went to the property, changed the locks, took pictures of the damage and need to get the place ready to rent. We will never use a PMC again. At this point, how do I go about recovering the deposit from the PMC and is there a place to report them? Any other tips/advice would be great. We rented the property once ourselves (great tenant) and then when they left, we thought the PMC would free up our time. As I said, it's been a nightmare. I have never dealt with such a lack of integrity, honesty and professionalism in any business I have dealt with.
In PA, a property manager would have to be a licensed agent. Here is a link to the PA Real Estate Commission website (it can be hard to find unless you know where to look for it):
You can look things up at the "Online Services" link there.
Sometimes you have to confront these shady characters in person, whether at their place of business or home. You have to act quickly to be able to return the tenant's deposit within the thirty days that PA law requires.
Even going through legal process, that doesn't move fast enough to get results within the thirty days. And the PM is probably holding the money since PA law does not require the deposit to be in a bank account until after twelve months.
I had a similar situation. Being remote can make it difficult as well. I mailed them a notice of cancellation of our contract with finally drew a reply from them.
There are good managers our there, you just need to find them. Be sure to find and speak to people who have used them for at least a year for referrals. I find after a year it's generally clear if they're trustworthy or not.
Always sickens me to hear property managers still act like this out there.
Of course laws vary from state to state on what you can do and Pennsylvania I am certainly not familiar with, but try and find out if their state business license and any required real estate license is still active. A google search should tell you any requirements.
Assuming it's a smaller company ran from a personal residence (or you would have already been by their office, right?), the business license info will tell you the address they're filed under and now you can get a face to face meeting.
I apologize on behalf of all the great PM's out there!
Not all of us are dirty! At least not over here in Oregon :)
Sorry to hear about your experience, no fun at all. I've never been in your shoes, but I'd send the PM a letter, professionally describing and documenting all of the issues you've had, ending the contract in writing and respectfully requesting that they return my deposit by x date (make sure it's in line with what your contract says). If the deposit isn't returned by then, I'd have my lawyer either call or write them another letter. If that doesn't get a response, I'd probably take them to small claims.
If they do return your deposit, I'd be thankful and leave it be at that point. If they don't, I'd call the BBB, review them on Yelp, Google and anywhere else I could.
It really is sad that a lot of PMC don't conduct business with integrity. They are getting paid to maximize cashflow and properly maintain a property for their client. Honestly I think it comes down to the mindset of the person who owns/operates the PMC. I think that person needs to truly want to see others succeed and not just try to maximize their success. If you help others succeed your success will be multiples of what it would be if you only cared about yourself!
In PA, a property manager would have to be a licensed agent. Here is a link to the PA Real Estate Commission website (it can be hard to find unless you know where to look for it):
You can look things up at the "Online Services" link there.
Sometimes you have to confront these shady characters in person, whether at their place of business or home. You have to act quickly to be able to return the tenant's deposit within the thirty days that PA law requires.
Even going through legal process, that doesn't move fast enough to get results within the thirty days. And the PM is probably holding the money since PA law does not require the deposit to be in a bank account until after twelve months.
Well, the tenants were poor. Always paying rent late (at one point, rent had not been paid in 2 months, the PMC didn't even know until I called and brought it to their attention.) They have left us with a $200 unpaid water bill and some damage to the property. The deposit would not be returned to them, rather it would come back to us. Because I cannot get in touch with the PMC and I am not willing to let my house sit, my husband and I simply changed the locks, took pictures, and are moving forward with preparing the property for lease. The PMC does have an office. I will send a certified letter Tuesday.
Thanks for the information. I knew that the PMC needed to be licensed in PA but wasn't sure where to look for further information.
I want to clarify above...when I said the "tenants were poor", I meant a poor choice/not good tenants.
I've been there, too, Jenny. Sorry. What a bummer.
Be sure and send a letter itemizing the deductions from their security deposit, or you could end up having to give it back to them.
If you don't know their new address, one way to find it, is to send them a letter to the property address with "Do Not Forward. Return Service Requested" written on it. The post office will then put a sticker on it with their new address, and return the envelope to you.
What my daughter did over her PMC disaster, is threaten to sue them and that worked for her. I'd send them a letter, as mentioned already, but I'd go ahead and add that if they don't fork over the deposit, that you'll be taking them to court for that and all other out-of-pocket expenses you have incurred due to their poor management. And if they don't, then file in small claims court. But, they'll probably pay up to avoid the court fees and/or paying an attorney.
And I'd report them to the PA real estate board. It probably won't do any good. Suing them would at least cost them some money and at least be a consequence, if they fight you.
@Jenny Keffer You need to notify the PM in writing of the cancellation of agreement. I would email and certify mail with signature required. I would let the PM know that you will be taking this complaint to the board if your money is not returned within 30 days if that is your law also in your state. Either way if he returns it or not REALTORS are governed by 3 boards.. local, state, and national. I would take this complaint to all three and if he was paying his fees they should take care of you and take his license or at least a violation of mis representation. Also I would yelp, zillow, realtor, trulia, and anywhere else you can blast this horrible job out there on the internet. You can go after him personally also but fear this may be more trouble then it is worth. Make sure to do a move out check list and take lots of pictures and better yet video to prove what work is needed. Property managers are worth their weight in gold if you have a good one. sorry this happened
Wow. Sounds horrible. The only thing I would add is to journal any conversations if you ever want to go to court to get the money. Summarize every conversation that isn't in writing and have dates. Weather it's worth going after would depend on how much money we're talking here.
Oh, and my personal 2cents. Don't threaten to sue unless you're willing to follow through. As far as your word is concerned, be better than them.
@Account Closed wrote, in PA you still have to send to the vacated tenants an itemization of what the security deposit was paying for within thirty days. Even when you feel you were entitled to retain the entire security deposit.
Hi, @Jenny Keffer Sorry to hear this, It does make it hard for me (PM) but it's also why I started my property management business. It was clear that there was an opportunity to do it better. It's definitely hard work and a bit frenzied so if a PM isn't really "in to it" they will fail miserably, and in turn really hurt their clients. There's a lot on the line in this business and you have to deal with someone who respects that.
I would like to emphasize what Steve Babiak mentioned, make sure you send the ex-tenants a letter explaining the itemized costs that their Sec Dep was used for.
There definitely are good PM's out there and I strive to be one because this is MY business and my reputation on the line and I care about it. There's lots of people who don't care about their reputation.
It sounds like PA has lic requirements so definitely connect with the state real estate commission. Maybe let the PM know that first, it may be enough to motivate them to get the $ back.
My next question is this-I have never met the tenants. I have no idea what the communication has been between the PM and the tenants. So, as far as the deposit and notifying the tenants, what would be an appropriate way to do so? Without speaking with the PM, how do I know what has been said, or if the deposit was returned, etc?
I have no problem communicating an itemized deduction of the deposit deductions but I have never had contact with the tenant.
@Jenny Keffer You need to notify the tenant of change in management and deposit responsibility of whom is holding it all in writing asap. Everything must be in writing. With tenants you have to go off of what is in writing on the lease. Although something may have been said to them by the prior manager whatever T is crossed and I is dotted is what you will need to go by. You will need to ask them if they have received their deposit yet in writing email/snail mail.
I too reached the same conclusion after having similar experiences. Self management can be a pain, but not as big a pain or expensive as managing a crooked, incompetent property manager. Of course, this doesn't help you with your current situation, but certainly will next time around.
I'm so sorry to hear you had such a difficult experience.
You should ask if the owner has his own income property in the same market. If he or she does, it means they can better understand your needs, but it also means they are your direct competition and a biased party when it comes to prioritizing whose property gets rented out first.