Convict moves in unannounced....

General Landlording & Rental Properties

Convict moves in unannounced....

Member since 2009 · 31 posts · 0 votes

So I have my first floor tenants who give me lots of problems. I am owner occupied 4 family and I live on the top. I have had to install 4 security cameras because of him. He has generally 25 people in and out of his house a day.

So last month October 30th his brother gets out of jail and decides to move him into his apt. He is on the ankle bracelet and had the sheriff come and install the receiver. After this he asks permission to have him stay there. Giving me a sob story about seeing his kids for thanksgiving I give him until December 1st and charge him an extra $100.

It is Dec. 2nd and he is still there. He is saying he is waiting for the sheriff to come he has already filed papers.

*What do I do? Can I call the sheriff and have him removed? ( I dont want bad with an ex con)

*Do I threaten an eviction for breaking lease and having him trespass?

*Or suck it up and collect the extra $100/month? (in mind w/ him being there his wife and 2 children are usually there during the day. the occupants went from 4 - 8.)

O please advise!

:cry:

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Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes

16y

Oh the joys of living next to your tenants!

Did you screen the tenant before you rented the place? With 25 people in and out of his unit each day, it sure sounds like he's dealing drugs. That's usually not something that starts suddenly with no prior evidence.

What's your lease situation? Is he on a long term lease? Month to month? If its month to month, just terminate it ASAP.

I wonder if you have created an implied tenancy when you took the $100 for having the new guy there in November.

Tough to evict someone on the basis of having additional occupants. Is the rent late? That's a much easier eviction.

See this reply in the discussion

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Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
16y
Oh the joys of living next to your tenants!

Did you screen the tenant before you rented the place? With 25 people in and out of his unit each day, it sure sounds like he's dealing drugs. That's usually not something that starts suddenly with no prior evidence.

What's your lease situation? Is he on a long term lease? Month to month? If its month to month, just terminate it ASAP.

I wonder if you have created an implied tenancy when you took the $100 for having the new guy there in November.

Tough to evict someone on the basis of having additional occupants. Is the rent late? That's a much easier eviction.
5 Reply
Nick J.
Residential Real Estate Broker · Payson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y
Originally posted by Jon Holdman:

I wonder if you have created an implied tenancy when you took the $100 for having the new guy there in November.

That would be my concern
0 Reply
Ralph S.
Real Estate Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2008 · 566 posts · 356 votes
16y
So, what's the Sheriff say? Call if you haven't. He can't leave until the Sheriff moves him and his ankle bracelet. Seems to me, it's the Sheriff's problem.

If he hasn't "filed the papers" then inform the Sheriff that he needs to go. Eight is too many, even for a 3 bdrm apt. If you're feeling really snitty, suggest your eviction will include the Sheriff's office as a defendant, since he can't legally leave without their cooperation, and ask how the Sheriff could move him in without confirming your acceptance of him as a tenant in the first place.
1 Reply
Mark N.A
Real Estate Investor · North Carolina · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 483 votes
16y
Let's assume you have an implied tenancy by letting him stay and taking his money.

So now raise his share of the rent significantly.

If he won't pay or go evict. Contact the Sheriff and/or parole officer. Chances are this loser needs to keep his nose clean or face returning to his former accomodations.

Keep us posted how things work out.
2 Reply
Michael Rossi
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y
Unfortunately, you've made a BUNCH of mistakes. Here they are:

1. You live with your tenants - YUK! I would never do that and furthermore, I go to great lengths to ensure that my tenants don't know where I live.

2. You either don't have your tenants on a month-to-month lease (BIG MISTAKE) or you haven't gotten rid of the original tenant who has been having so many people over OR, even worse, BOTH!!!

3. You accepted a sob story and allowed your "feelings" to interfere with business. Landlords can't have feelings!!! TOUGHEN UP!

4. You allowed a convicted criminal to move in.

5. You accepted money for a NEW TENANT!!! BIG MISTAKE!

Here's what you can do......NOTHING! Well, that's not quite right, you can try a few things - but your legal options are VERY LIMITED if the tenant keeps paying rent and if any of the people living there don't want to leave. Here are my ideas:

1. You can try calling the sheriff - but what is your complaint??? Are you going to complain that you allowed this criminal to move in; charged him rent; and now have changed your mind? I'll bet that will go over big!

2. You can call his parole officer and complain about.....what??? What evidence do you have that he's committed a parole violation since he's moved in your place. Even if you have a CLEAR parole violation recorded on your security cameras - good luck getting the parole officer to do ANYTHING!!! Been there, done that!

3. You could file an eviction for something other than failure to pay rent - and you'll probably lose.

4. You can try raising the rent of the criminal, but I doubt that will hold up in court if the original tenant is on a year long lease. You've already set the rent when you accepted an extra $100 and I doubt raising that will hold up in court. He'll simply claim that you told him it would be $100 and you don't have anything signed that says otherwise.

5. You can make bubba the criminal your new best buddy! After all, you let him move in and now he's YOURS!

Some things simply can't be easily fixed!

Good Luck,

Mike

4 Reply
Eddie Ziv
Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
16y
Thanks, Mike. Now you really made the guy feel better. Any constructive thoughts?
Some people buy a duplex or triplex and share it with other tenant to ease the mortgage payment.
I have two gust units that have been rented since 1989. I only had issue once and it was quickly resolve. I agree that screening is imperative but now the guy have a situation and making him feel bad doesn't really make things better. Sometimes it's better not to say anything unless you really have some constructive advise.
1 Reply
Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
16y
I have to take up for Mike here. This situation is a mess. I have trouble seeing exactly how you escape from the mess. If he has a long term lease, and is paying the rent on time, there's not much to be done. As soon as possible, terminate the occupancy. If its a month to month lease, that's fairly quick. If there are still nine months left on the lease, its going to be a long nine months.
1 Reply
Nick J.
Residential Real Estate Broker · Payson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y
I was wondering if MikeOH was going to catch this post LOL!!!!
0 Reply
Michael Rossi
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y

I wasn't trying to make him "feel" better. Did you miss the part where I said that landlords can't have "feelings"? I was trying to answer his question - what to do now. My answer is to make friends with Bubba the Criminal - that's about all he can do!

The real moral of this story is that On the Job Training is not a good choice when it comes to rentals. At best, he's got a very bad situation. At worst, it could turn violent (that's what criminals do) and become a NIGHTMARE.

I guess I did forget to provide one useful suggestion - BUY A GUN AND LEARN TO USE IT! It's bad enough being stalked by a drug-crazed, convicted felon (as happened to me), it's another story entirely when you're living with them! UGH!

By the way, I should mention that the convicted scumbag felon that was stalking me finally went to trial for felony drug possession and theft of drugs. With over 250 arrests and previous felony convictions (including assaulting a police officer), anyone care to guess about his sentence?..................surely something severe - wouldn't you think?.............drum roll please...............THREE YEARS PROBATION!!! With that kind of justice, is it any wonder that I carry a handgun?
0 Reply
Eddie Ziv
Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
16y
Mike, I didn't dispute your points. I think that most of them were valid. I'm sure you didn't gain your experience by doing nothing. I'm also sure that you have your own bag of mistakes that made you the seasoned landlord that you are today.
Training on the job, is the way to gain experience. Yes, you can learn from others' mistakes, but the one you never repeat are your own.
0 Reply
Michael Rossi
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y

I would hope that people are NOT gaining experience by making every mistake themselves. That is completely unnecessary and a recipe for failure.

I certainly made a few mistakes, but only a few. When I was a newbie, I tried very hard to learn from the experiences and mistakes of other landlords, so that I wouldn't have to make those mistakes myself. The info is out there and there is no excuse for making a bunch of mistakes.

Mike
0 Reply
Eddie Ziv
Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
16y
Look, the kid is 22 years old. Give him a break. When I was that age, all I cared was having fun (Mainly because I spent the three years prior in the military which wasn't fun at all) He at least owns a rental property so I have to hand it to him. Anyway, I think your option # 5 Mike, was the best one at this situation. Make nice with the guy and hope he'd find another place soon. Option # 6 could be Peter Giardini's method. Pay the guy to leave...
0 Reply
Jim Wineinger
Real Estate Investor · ten mile, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 374 votes
16y
I still think that solution #2 will work in most cases and if not that the sheriff should be notified that the parole officer is not doing his job. Worst case scenario would be that you documented an illegal act which will break most leases and then both of them are notified that they have broken their lease and must leave by XXX time.

Your lease contract wording will need to be looked at by an attorney very closely at this point to see what violations actually break the lease.

THEN GET RID OF THEM.

Mike has noted cases where this did not work for him so the attorney route will probably be needed to help you legally do things.
0 Reply
Account Closed
OR · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 845 votes
16y
You gave him permission to move in and you took rent money from him. That makes him your tenant

He's what you can try: give the tenant a written notice that you allowed him to have a guest for 30 days, but that time is up and the guest must move out.

Then hope your tenant will fall for it.

I only do month to month, so I would have given your drug dealer tenant a 30 day notice a long time ago (or hey, maybe he's selling tupperware. Have you seen any drugs?)

I'd catch the tenant coming in and tell him that the weirdest thing happened. The narcotics squad was around asking about suspicious activity and saying they were checking into someone in the neighborhood. Ask your tenant if he knows who the narcs are spying on?

If your tenant really is dealing drugs, he is very likely to decamp.

I would have been able to get your tenant out for disruptive behavior, but you have to have a good rental agreement with lots of assorted violations you can evict for. You also have to file for eviction as soon as the problem starts.

Call the local narc squad and tell them that you suspect drug dealing is going on and you can't get the tenant out without a police report.

I would also write a letter to the chief of police and the mayor complaining about them moving the felon into your unit without the landlord's permission, and asking why they placed a felon into a house where there is suspicion of drug dealing.

If the "guest" doesn't leave when you send the written notice, find something in your lease that they've violated and file to evicit everybody.
1 Reply
Jim Wineinger
Real Estate Investor · ten mile, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 374 votes
16y

I really like your thinking here. But if they talk to others about what the narcs asked them, well....... then they may figure out who the real narc is and you could have a few more problems come your way. Especially if you

That police report will have the name on it of who filed it!!!!!!!!!!!

0 Reply
Michael Rossi
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y

You can certainly try this, but in my experience it won't work. Drug dealers are a lot like professional tenants - they know the law. Even if a cop comes to their door inquiring about their illegal drug activity, that won't stop them from dealing or cause them to leave. They know that the police must have a search warrant to enter the property and threats by a landlord aren't going to faze them.

You could stand outside and take pictures of the druggies and their license plates as they come to pickup their drugs. That will piss them off and it might even scare off a couple of novice druggies, but that won't stop the drug dealer either. Most drug dealers are addicts. They MUST deal drugs to support their habit. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do to stop them from dealing drugs (short of actually getting them arrested), and that will only stop them for the few hours they spend in jail.

If you read my earlier post, you'll see what I mean. I was the witness to an attempted murder. The criminal has over 250 arrests and has convictions for just about everything you can imagine, including carrying a concealed weapon under disability, assaulting a police officer, drug trafficking, violating a restraining order, etc, etc, etc, etc. He was just sentenced for felony drug charges -- his sentence THREE YEARS PROBATION! The point is that you can't intimidate this scum with threats that you might call the police! They know, better than we do, that the criminal justice system is broken and that criminals in the U.S. are coddled - not punished.

My advice - BUY A GUN AND CARRY IT EVERY MINUTE THAT YOU ARE OUT OF THE HOUSE.

If you're afraid of drug dealers, don't get into the rental property business. Dealing with this scum is part of the job. I've called the police on druggies MANY TIMES while I was standing right in front of them. I tell all tenants when they sign the lease that if I suspect drug activity, I WILL call the police and the drug task force, and do everything in my power to have them arrested. Big deal - what is a drug dealer going to do - hate me more???

One more thing, if I were living with this scum, I would DEFINITELY buy a good, monitored alarm system and use it religiously. You don't want to come home one day and find the felon sitting in your living room waiting for you!!! In fact, I would go one step farther and say that ALL landlords should have a good alarm system at their homes, even if they take extraordinary steps to protect their address.

0 Reply
Thomas Jones
OP
Member since 2009 · 31 posts · 0 votes
16y
WOW WOW WOW

Thank you all for all the impressive responses.

First off Mike thank you much...The comments are all good! I am only 22 and make mistakes (but like Eddie said most 22 year old kids are still partying.) and in this case apparently I did make a big one. We had a verbal agreement that the convict would be out w/ in one month. I don't know what that will hold up for though. My tenant said that he has filed the papers for the sherriff to take him off bracelet.

I am applying for a gun asap, and in my apt I do have ADT. Unfortunately this being my first house I have to live here. I live on the top floor and rent the other 3 out.

The only evidence I have on camera is numerous people going in and out and a pit bull being in the house for 30 mins when the lease says no pets.

Lastly an update on my way to work this morning he stopped me saying he is going to possibly be buying a house??? under some govt disability act for first time home buyers and giving a 60 day notice.

0 Reply
Michael Rossi
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y

GET IT IN WRITING!!! Hopefully, he will buy a house but this also may be a stalling tactic - making you think your problem is solved, when in reality it's really just buying him at least another 60 days (at which time he'll probably say that the loan isn't done and it will take another 30 days). If a tenant's lips are moving - ASSUME THEY'RE LYING!!!

Good and good! Once you get that gun, you need to get training and do whatever it takes to be able to legally carry it (loaded, one in the chamber) every minute that you are out of the house. Having a gun in the house isn't of much use when you run into a crazed druggie on the street!
0 Reply
Eddie Ziv
Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
16y
Originally posted by MikeOH:

You can certainly try this, but in my experience it won't work. Drug dealers are a lot like professional tenants - they know the law. Even if a cop comes to their door inquiring about their illegal drug activity, that won't stop them from dealing or cause them to leave. They know that the police must have a search warrant to enter the property and threats by a landlord aren't going to faze them.

You could stand outside and take pictures of the druggies and their license plates as they come to pickup their drugs. That will piss them off and it might even scare off a couple of novice druggies, but that won't stop the drug dealer either. Most drug dealers are addicts. They MUST deal drugs to support their habit. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do to stop them from dealing drugs (short of actually getting them arrested), and that will only stop them for the few hours they spend in jail.

Maybe you're right, however, for the police to get a search warrant, they need "probable cause". Shooting a video, and taking pictures of those people, their cars and LP#, may provide the probable cause needed since I'm sure most of them are already convicted of something and are most likely known to the police. Whether or not the police would act on that info to get the warrant, depends on the motivation of the local police dept. or the specific county sheriff.
0 Reply
Stirling Gardner
Property Manager · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 33 posts · 8 votes
16y
No one has mentioned giving him a warning for having a pet in his unit when it says no pets on the lease?

Sometimes addressing something small and not illegal may serve you better. However, I don't know the law as far as security cameras go and if you have to let tenants know they are being watched on tape.
0 Reply
Jim Wineinger
Real Estate Investor · ten mile, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 374 votes
16y
Sorry, Stirling. Good thought, but the post said the pet was there for 30 min. This does not constitute having a "pet". And if you were to attempt to make the "visitor" leave the pet in thier car you could be charged with animal cruelty!!!!!

The world is turned around these days
0 Reply
Michael Rossi
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y

Yes, you could have a chat with the tenant about the dog and maybe even remind the tenant to brush his teeth before going to bed. However, I fail to see how that addresses the REAL ISSUE, which is that the tenant is running a drug house and is allowing the convicted criminal to stay after he was supposed to be gone (although this is really the landlord's fault).

Talking about the dog when things are so serious that the landlord felt the need to install security cameras and is buying a gun, just doesn't quite hit the mark.

Mike

0 Reply
Thomas Jones
OP
Member since 2009 · 31 posts · 0 votes
16y
It is the 4th of the month and he has not moved. What do I do? Is he considered trespassing seeing he is not on the lease? Can I file for an eviction notice?
0 Reply
Michael Rossi
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y
No, he's not trespassing - he's a guest of your tenant (if not legally YOUR tenant). You can file for eviction based on the tenant not living up to your verbal agreement, but you're going to lose in court (after spending a bunch of money).
0 Reply
Jon Holdman
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
16y
You still have not stated the lease sitution with the official tenant. Is he on a long term lease? If so, when does it end? If not, what's your local regulation or what does your lease say about termination. Your best bet here, IMHO, is to terminate his lease as soon as you're allowed to do so.
2 Reply

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