Reasonable time for repair/replace oven?

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Reasonable time for repair/replace oven?

Gabe G.
Greenwood, IN · Member since 2013 · 346 posts · 93 votes

Tenant called on saturday afternoon, indicating there was an issue with the oven and is not working.

I called some appliance repair companies on saturday, but of course most aren't working and returned my call on Monday. I scheduled for service on Tuesday during the day, as the tenant said that was fine. 20 mins later the tenant texts back and says, they won't be there and they must be there while the appliance repair is taking place. One of them gets home at 5:30pm. Most appliance places stop service calls at 6. Giving me a 30minute window to work with. Currently. I have someone scheduled to come out on Wednesday to look at it.

The tenant believes this is an unreasonable turnaround time for a repair of an oven. She says she doesn't know how she is going to eat. Which kinda through me. As the tenant has a microwave and a working fridge, and is within a 1 mile radius of 20 places to eat. Apparently, she spent all her money on groceries, and is out of microwavable food. And she has no money to eat, and no way to cook the food, and it's my fault.  Before we even fix the problem, she is hinting that she believes she deserves a deduction in rent of 15 dollars a day from the time the problem was reported. Which I indicated is not something I can do.

To me this all seems unreasonable. If we were taking heat going out in the winter, or AC going out in some of the hottest days of the year, or no running water. These things I deem an emergency.

An oven going out, while I understand it's an inconvenience, isn't an emergency, however it's something I will get repaired as soon as possible and act on, as soon as I hear the request.

However, Monday is the time I am able to schedule with the companies, then add they are making it hard for a particular time that works for them, the service guy has to come out on Wednesday, if he has parts it fixed then. If not, he has to order parts and it could be a few more days. Considering the oven is only 3 years old. I believe I have an obligation to see if it can be repaired.

I would say  if the oven is repaired within a week, that would be reasonable.

What does everybody else think?  What would be a reasonable turn around time in this situation for your business?

Am I wrong?

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CJ Ashton
Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2017 · 54 posts · 44 votes
9y

I only manage a couple of properties so take my $0.02 for what it's worth.

I always have my service providers call the tenant and schedule directly with them.  That way, the tenant is responsible for managing their own schedule and any delay in the problem getting repaired is on them.  I've found that most service providers have fairly flexible schedules and can get the job done in a time that is convenient for the tenant's work schedule.

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  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y
    I agree completely with your analysis. A oven out of service is a very minor issue. Your tenant is attempting to manipulate you. The turn around time was caused by her being uncooperative. Next time you simply give proper 24 hour notice and have the repairs done without her being present. Make this clear to her in this instance so that she fully understands she was the cause of the delay. 

    Document everything and stick to your guns with this tenant. Looks like she is going to be one of those overly entitled types.

    3Reply
  • Deanna McCormick
    Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    You let tenant know YOUR service agent will be there and you will accompany for the service call she does not need to be home.. 3 to 5 days to get this taken care of is basically normal. If parts are needed it could take longer.. The service delay was because she wasn't cooperating but honestly I never even give them the chance to reschedule.. I go with the service guy. and just give tenant notice were coming.. 

    If for any reason she bars you from entering to get in and take care of the appliance I would charge her for the service call, give her notice of lease violation.

    As long as she does have a microwave then this is just an inconvenience.. If she didn't have one I would drop one off for her to use during the down time for repair.. 

    You owe her nothing,, 

    3Reply
  • Gabe G.
    OP
    Greenwood, IN · Member since 2013 · 346 posts · 93 votes
    9y

    @Deanna McCormick

    I agree with that. However, I work a full time job. So I would be unable to be there.

    There concern was having someone there without them or I there.

    Which I sorta understand.

    However

    1. I am sure I have things more of value there, than they do.

    2.  This is a reputable company, not some dude, coming in to make the repairs, so their concerns of not being there are probably unfounded.

    But overall I agree with you. Unreasonable expectations.

    0Reply
  • Deanna McCormick
    Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Gabe G.  Just keep this in mind YOU are responsible to service YOUR business.. YOU are responsible to make sure this is handled.. NO wonder your tenant is PISSED.. Why should they take time off to meet and wait around for service 

    Excuses and wanting to figure out why tenant is expecting more ??... HIRE a PM so you can go to work.. 

    1Reply
  • Nicholas Cook
    Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 100 posts · 56 votes
    9y

    Hi Gabe,

    I think your timeline completely reasonable. In regards to a rent concession, it really depends on what your state law says AND how far you think the tenant will take things.

    In Oregon, residents can ask for concessions if they can prove $1 of diminished value.

    Good luck!

    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y
    Asking and receiving rent concession are two separate issues. I leave it up to tenants to decide to take me to court to get rent concessions when I determine it is not warranted. I never pay simply to avoid the risk.

    9 times in 10 they will not bother. Those that do I believe have a 50% chance of winning. I would say refusing to pay rent concisions is fairly low risk.

    0Reply
  • Robert P.
    New Bedford, MA · Member since 2015 · 361 posts · 114 votes
    9y

    I think you are well within a reasonable time frame. The tenant is the one who says they need to be there. If that was not the case, everything could have potentially been all fixed by Tuesday. Sure people work full time, but they also need to realize that you can't get an oven fixed at 10pm either (unless you know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy). Don't fall into the trap of paying anything per day. As long as you take action right away (which you did), then you should be golden. If the tenant doesn't understand that, there are bigger issues there...

    0Reply
  • Dustin Beam
    Kansas City, MO · Member since 2015 · 609 posts · 321 votes
    9y

    I only have 1 year experience, but when I use a repair person, the tenant schedules a time to let them in. I never want a call stating "someone stole something during the repair" or some other nonsense. They need to be there to let them in just like a normal home-owner.

    If/when I have enough properties that I have full time repair people that I employ, it might be different. But until then, I don't trust contractors w/ a key, I don't trust tenants (enough) to not try and pull something on me, and won't waste my time letting contractors in.

    0Reply
  • CJ Ashton
    Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2017 · 54 posts · 44 votes
    9y

    I only manage a couple of properties so take my $0.02 for what it's worth.

    I always have my service providers call the tenant and schedule directly with them.  That way, the tenant is responsible for managing their own schedule and any delay in the problem getting repaired is on them.  I've found that most service providers have fairly flexible schedules and can get the job done in a time that is convenient for the tenant's work schedule.

    4Reply
  • Dustin Beam
    Kansas City, MO · Member since 2015 · 609 posts · 321 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @CJ Ashton:

    I only manage a couple of properties so take my $0.02 for what it's worth.

    I always have my service providers call the tenant and schedule directly with them.  That way, the tenant is responsible for managing their own schedule and any delay in the problem getting repaired is on them.  I've found that most service providers have fairly flexible schedules and can get the job done in a time that is convenient for the tenant's work schedule.

     Yep, pretty much exactly what I do. I reduces the back and forth and any potential headaches that come along w/ doing any of that yourself. I haven't had much trouble so far w/ that method.

    0Reply
  • Gabe G.
    OP
    Greenwood, IN · Member since 2013 · 346 posts · 93 votes
    9y

    @Deanna McCormick

    Haha.  Well the fact of the matter is. I use the same companies and people I trust, or only companies with great reviews from Angies list. I would trust each one in my own house while I am not there.

    Me being there, during the repair, is not going to expedite the request one bit.

    It's their choice that they don't want my maintenance people in their while they are gone, but they should understand that will delay the repair.

    On a property manager. I had to call a property manager(one of the major ones in our area) for a tree that was on their property that was an issue.

    I was on hold for one hour, and then someone was scheduled one week out to come out and look at the situation:)

    I am pretty sure my tenants are getting more prompt communication and scheduling from me, than they would be at a property management company.

     Thanks for the input

    0Reply
  • Gabe G.
    OP
    Greenwood, IN · Member since 2013 · 346 posts · 93 votes
    9y

    @Nicholas Cook

    In indiana there are no laws that allow a tenant to withhold rent, or rent concessions based on how fast a repair was made.

    If the tenant believes and can prove the house is not habitable or some issue that needs to be addressed, they can move out breaking the lease, and not be held liable for doing so.

    Beyond the law, if this was a situation that got drawn out weeks, I could see some compensation being appropriate. But we are currently on the 2nd day.Furthermore, they were late on rent and I waived a late fee for them last month, because of an issue they had. So that is compensation in a sense as well, where I was being flexible to their situation

    0Reply
  • CJ Ashton
    Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2017 · 54 posts · 44 votes
    9y

    Something else to consider if you have the spare space...  I have an extra appliance or two in my garage.  In a pinch, it's sometimes easier (and cheaper) to replace the whole unit with a used appliance rather than pay for a service call and repair.

    0Reply
  • Gabe G.
    OP
    Greenwood, IN · Member since 2013 · 346 posts · 93 votes
    9y

    @CJ Ashton

    And if this oven, was 10 years old. I probably would just replace.

    However, the oven is a few years old, which indicates I should at least see what a repair might be.

    0Reply
  • Scott Steffek
    Flipper/Rehabber · Crown Point, IN · Member since 2009 · 482 posts · 216 votes
    9y

    Gabe,

    I agree with having the appliance guy schedule with the tenant. This takes the monkey off your back. Also, think about something. I live in NW Indiana and Greenwood isn't terribly far from here. It's been in the 90's and your tenant is complaining because she can't turn the oven on. Seriously?  There's more to this than you probably know. Be prepared for rent being late or something.  Sounds like she's setting you up for a late rent payment or God knows what.  Let us know what happens. Best of luck to you. 

    1Reply
  • Gabe G.
    OP
    Greenwood, IN · Member since 2013 · 346 posts · 93 votes
    9y

    @Scott Steffek  I agree. Rent has already been late last month and I worked with them.

    I expect the same this month.

    Hahah. It's funny. I am suppose to be flexible when rent is late, however if you have to wait a few extra days for a non essential repair than you think is necessary, it's a crime:)

    A lot of tenants want a one sided relationship where the landlord is flexible with the tenant. But the tenant does not have to reciprocate .

    2Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    Oven not working is usually one of three things... defective element, do it yourself cheep fix, fuse, do it yourself cheep fix, computer control panel, replace with used appliance...$200..  

    1Reply
  • Gabe G.
    OP
    Greenwood, IN · Member since 2013 · 346 posts · 93 votes
    9y

    @Thomas S.  Thank you for breaking it down. Any oven issues I have had. I just replaced because they were older. This is the only one that is somewhat newer, that I would like to try and save if possible. I will hope for the first two.  Have you ever ran the numbers on used appliances vs buying new for a rental?  Meaning, if you buy used sometimes you get duds. Does paying up for new ones at say 500 for an oven actually cheaper over the long run?  I go back and forth on this one.

    1Reply
  • Scott Steffek
    Flipper/Rehabber · Crown Point, IN · Member since 2009 · 482 posts · 216 votes
    9y

    Gabe,

    You're spot on. It's ok for the rent to be late, but God forbid you don't drop what you're doing and fix the oven in 95 degree heat! Thomas left out the igniter, but only if it's a gas stove. That's a cheap and easy fix too. Just get ready for a battle for the rent. Best of luck. 

    1Reply
  • Lee Smith
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2009 · 477 posts · 304 votes
    9y

    @Gabe G. I don't know what price range this is in, but you can buy a stove for $250~.. Just swap it out and then get the bad one repaired, or pitched..

    I use Hayden Appliances in Indianapolis.

    PM me for contact info, or google it. Tell them I sent you. Great company. They will deliver, and warranty appliances for 90 days. They also do repairs. 

    We buy a lot from them and they are great to work with..

    0Reply
  • Gail K.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Can I make one suggestion?

    Go over there and throw the breakers first (I'm assuming this is an electric range).

    Years ago one of my own wall ovens stopped working.  I checked the double breaker and it APPEARED on.  Called an appliance guy and the first thing he asked was "where's the breaker box".  I told him but said "I already looked at the breaker".  He said "show me the box" and then went on to flip the double breaker off, then on.

    Of course the oven came on (and has worked fine for the past 20 years after this).  That was my $60 lesson that ONE side of a double breaker can flip and it still appears on.

    The issue may be nothing more than this (IF it's electric).

    As for the rest of it...it would be a cold day in .....you know....before I'd be giving this tenant a $15 a day rent reduction for this nonsense.

    Gail

    2Reply
  • Scott Weaner
    Rental Property Investor · Yardley, PA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 561 votes
    9y

    As the tenant wanted it scheduled when they were home, I would have them schedule with your repair person. the timeframe is certainly not an issue. Anyone can be without an oven for a week. We lived for weeks with a toaster oven, microwave, and hot pot during a kitchen remodel.

    0Reply
  • Shaun Patterson
    Property Manager · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 296 posts · 143 votes
    9y

    As everyone said she is trying to get something extra. If the tech was called and was able to get out tuesday but because of her scheduling she pushed it out longer it's not your fault you're making every effort to get the issue resolved.

    0Reply
  • Antoine Martel
    Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 577 posts · 240 votes
    9y
    Apologize and get the repair man out there as soon as possible. Keep your tenant at bay but do not give in. A couple days is good.
    0Reply
  • Kelly N.
    Investor · SE, MI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 461 votes
    9y

    I think that's reasonable.  They are unwilling to allow you to let the repair person in and fix it at the earliest time, it's on them that they have to wait longer.  If you had waited to call the repair person or if the repair person couldn't come out within a day or two and you didn't try to find another one, that would be unreasonable.

    In a case where I am unable to repair an oven in a day or so, I will drop off a toaster oven or small microwave so at least they have a way to cook things- I happen to have both of these appliances that other tenants have left behind, but either could be purchased fairly cheap.  If I am waiting on parts that may or may not fix the issue, I will purchase a new appliance and schedule it to be delivered,  that way the delay is minimal if the repair doesn't fix the issue.  If the repair works I cancel it (be sure you can get a full refund).  The other thing to consider is the age and condition of the appliance- if it's fairly new, by all means see if it can be fixed.  If it is older, you may be further ahead to just replace it- the repair may cost more than the appliance is worth, and even if it is fairly cheap you still may have to put more money in the appliance before too long.  

    I repair most appliances myself- but we have repairclinic.com only 10 minutes away.  I would look to see if you have something similar near you so you're not paying someone to come out until you know you can't fix it.  I was able to fix an oven that wouldn't light in about 20 minutes, the igniter was only $50 and the only tools I needed were a screw driver and a pair of pliers.  If it had needed more than that (like the control board for ~$135) I would have considered a new appliance.  Just something to think about going forward.

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