Landlord trying to withhold entire deposit

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Landlord trying to withhold entire deposit

Jennifer Jones
Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 0 votes

We have just moved out of a property we rented for 3 plus years and our landlord is trying to withhold our entire deposit for charges/ damages he's gathering at almost three times the deposit. Hes trying to charge us for full carpet replacement for issues that were only wear and tear due to age, and excessive cleaning charges and labor costs for things that were dirty or just as dirty as when we moved in. We think he is being very excessive as we left the place cleaner than we received as based on our move in inspection form. He has since paid for and had the place cleaned to a condition better than we received but at an expensive cost. Based on the condition we received the place in Im very doubtful that he would be able to show any receipts for any similar cleaning that was done prior to us moving in as our inspection form shows quite the opposite in regards to cleanliness.

The landlord upon move in never did a walk around inspection with us, he never signed and returned to us the move in inspection form we filled out and sent to him about the condition of the property, and he also never provided us a right to pre inspection form for move out. We have a few pictures of the property condition on move in, during our time there and very little of the move out condition. Where do we stand legally to defend ourselves in small claims in CA court to receive our deposit back? Thanks

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Kathleen Leary
Princeton, KS · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 169 votes
9y

Just based on what you've said, I feel you have a pretty good legal leg to stand on. Get those move-in photos out! I hope you kept a copy of the walk-through form you provided.

If your landlord didn't do the move-in walk-through (don't know the statues where you are; here, it must be completed within 5 days of legal move-in) or provide paperwork, he/she has no verifiable way to show the condition of the property other than his say-so.

After three years, there will be wear-&-tear expenses that are to be expected. The security deposit is to cover anything over & above that; documentation is essential. 

As noted, say you disagree with the assessment. Have your documentation in order; go to court if you have to. You may find the landlord backs down - if not, you're ready.

Good luck!

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  • Frank Chin
    Investor · Bayside, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Yes, though I'm a landlord, I believe you should bring the case to landlord tenant court.

    I watch Judge Judy several times a week where they have cases like this and landlords lose most of the time, They don't understand wear and tear and expect the place in "rent ready" condition rather than "broom clean".

    When I once rented an apartment, my landlord also held on to the deposit. I was buying a house, and my attorney wrote a letter threatening to sue and they promptly paid. However, they were a large PM firm, and they're pushing the boundaries and see how far they can get away with.

    I don't know the landlord tenant laws of your state, so the advice of an attorney is useful. Alternatively, you can read up on it yourself and see if your landlord conformed to all the rules, which I don't think they have.

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  • Deanna McCormick
    Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Follow proper procedure to contest your disagreement with the findings of the landlord. Ask for receipts of anything replaced or repaired. And hopefully you took your own move out photos before you left.

    Simply say that if you can't come to an agreement on the refund you'll seek further action and then that's what you'll have to do.

    1Reply
  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    Have you read your state landlord-tenant statutes? There are certain processes that must be followed by BOTH parties. If unreasonable, unlawful, etc that landlord has a LOT to lose.

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  • Kathleen Leary
    Princeton, KS · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 169 votes
    9y

    Just based on what you've said, I feel you have a pretty good legal leg to stand on. Get those move-in photos out! I hope you kept a copy of the walk-through form you provided.

    If your landlord didn't do the move-in walk-through (don't know the statues where you are; here, it must be completed within 5 days of legal move-in) or provide paperwork, he/she has no verifiable way to show the condition of the property other than his say-so.

    After three years, there will be wear-&-tear expenses that are to be expected. The security deposit is to cover anything over & above that; documentation is essential. 

    As noted, say you disagree with the assessment. Have your documentation in order; go to court if you have to. You may find the landlord backs down - if not, you're ready.

    Good luck!

    2Reply
  • Jennifer Jones
    OP
    Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Thanks so much for all the replies...

    Frank, I agree, based on what I've read in landlord tenant laws I don't believe they've followed the rules. Instead of agreeing to have certain things fixed, he is trying to Bill us for complete replacement that is above and beyond wear and tear.

    Deanna, we didn't take many move out photos unfortunately, but luckily our daughter got some video of some of the rooms to document as a goodbye for herself. Hopefully this can help us.

    John, we are doing our best to read up on and understand the law for our state and I think we've been documenting things accordingly. We think he should have at least, by the laws in our state, provided us a right to pre inspection before moving out, which he did not.

    Kathleen, we do have a copy of the inspection form but don't have much other than video in terms of move out condition. Nonetheless I agree that due to him not signing off on the move in form or doing a walk around that may give us some help in proving the condition moving in was less than the condition he brought it to moving out. It is my belief he wants to have it be in brand new condition and stick us with the bill for it. It seems he is completely unaware of the difference between wear and tear and how he would "like" it to look.

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  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    HE said/She said.....there are three sides to every story.

    Begin by contacting your landlord and request proof of receipts from contractors for all repair work completed. Once you have that you may decide to proceed to make your claim in court. Landlords may not charge for their own personal time only any material they may use. Labour charges must be from a hired contractor.

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  • Mike McCarthy
    Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    As you've probably figured out, the landlord can also only bill you in terms of 'above wear and tear'. For example, even if you really destroyed the carpet, and it was brand new when you lived in, carpet in a rental is only depreciated (expected to last) 5 years. So if he has to replace all of it because of you, he can only bill you for 2/5 of the replacement cost. (Note that I understand this to be true. I'm not a lawyer and I certainly don't know the intricacies of CA law, so take it as something to look into further.)
    0Reply
  • Marcia Maynard
    Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    HE said/She said.....there are three sides to every story.

    Begin by contacting your landlord and request proof of receipts from contractors for all repair work completed. Once you have that you may decide to proceed to make your claim in court. Landlords may not charge for their own personal time only any material they may use. Labour charges must be from a hired contractor.

    Good advice on contacting the landlord for documentation. About whether a landlord can charge for their time/labor, what you say is true in some jurisdictions, but not all. I don't know about California, but in our area we can charge tenants a reasonable amount for our labor. Especially since we clarify that in our rental agreement terms. Some charges will be upheld by a court of law even without receipts if the charges are reasonable and itemized properly on the final accounting report provided to the tenant.

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