How to rent place. What are we doing wrong?
Blue Bell, PA · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 2 votes
How to rent place. What are we doing wrong?
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Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9yThe front photo and the street with the overpass are not the most attractive. Since you've had many showing maybe the photos are ok. But since you had many showings and only one application something is wrong, and I would suggest that the people coming are expecting more for their money.
I think in both renting and selling, it always come down to the money. If the rent was half of what your asking it would rent the first day. I'm not suggesting charging half rent but somewhere between what you are charging and half of what you're charging the is a point of equilibrium between the minimum you'll take and the maximum that a tenant will pay.
I've rented properties for many year. When there is turn over there are a few things that I do. I always use Craigslist and Zillow for renting, rarely do I put a sign on the property unless there is a fair amount of traffic. But I don't like to rent on streets with lots of traffic, no double yellow lines for me. I also don't rent places that don't have off street parking, maybe a garage, maybe a carport, or maybe just a driveway.
I will look at comparable ads on CL and Zillow to look at their pix, what looks good what doesn't and what rents are they charging, and how old are their ads. In addition, I'll test ad putting in an ad higher than I think it will rent for just to validate my rent. If I rent at the higher price, good for me. If the rent is too high for the product, then a lower the rent and get it rented, which is alos good for me.
I'll also look at rentometer, just to see that they have to say about the rent price.
Remember its always about the price$$$$$$$. Sometimes lowering the asking price $20 does the trick, but I never want vacancy for 30 days, my goal is 14 days or less, and I might lower rent every week to get it rented.
I've bought and sold over 900 properties and have lost track of how many tenants I've had, but its been a lot. Vacancy is a killer and I've had several 30 year tenants, I had one tenant that I didn't see for 24 years, which was alright with me as long as they paid the rent.
Bigger Pockets Podcast #82 guest
36 Replies
There are many possibilities, I would be interested to see the link as well.
Some of the things that come up as possible issues might be the rent amount, amount needed for move in more than average for area, policies (i.e. Are you accepting pets?). Is your unit missing amenities that other similar units have? Is your int located near but not actually *in* the desirable area?
- Blue Bell, PA · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 2 votes9y
Here is the link to the property
https://home.cozy.co/apply/264823
The area is highly sought after with easy routes (train or car) into Center City or suburbs / major roads.
- Blue Bell, PA · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 2 votes9y
Originally posted by @Sara K.:
There are many possibilities, I would be interested to see the link as well.
Some of the things that come up as possible issues might be the rent amount, amount needed for move in more than average for area, policies (i.e. Are you accepting pets?). Is your unit missing amenities that other similar units have? Is your int located near but not actually *in* the desirable area?
if I was you I would replace some of the outdated lights with modern looking lights (maybe even ceilingsfans with lights), I would also consider having pets since it doesn't appear that you have carpet, I would also consider remove the old oil heaters with heat pumps or something more modern(since they make it look outdated and they are really expensive to fix), and if the place doesn't have air conditioning I would either include portable units or better yet add central heating and cooling, Also if I was you I would retake the pictures when it's a bit darker and not much glare and add some curtains and new blinds
- Blue Bell, PA · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 2 votes9y
Originally posted by @Josh July:
if I was you I would replace some of the outdated lights with modern looking lights (maybe even ceilingsfans with lights), I would also consider having pets since it doesn't appear that you have carpet, I would also consider remove the old oil heaters with heat pumps or something more modern(since they make it look outdated and they are really expensive to fix), and if the place doesn't have air conditioning I would either include portable units or better yet add central heating and cooling, Also if I was you I would retake the pictures when it's a bit darker and not much glare and add some curtains and new blinds
Thanks for the input. Most places in area are like this for the amount of rent. A lot of them look really beat up inside and the bathroom and kitchens are garbage and not a lot have a big back yard. Its a big area for recent grads and students. AC Window Units are included. Did we not list that?
The updates you've done look nice, overall the unit looks clean.
Keep in mind I'm not familiar with your market, so I'm just spitballing.
4 bedrooms is higher than average here (see much more 3 bedrooms) plus with only 1 bathroom, I can see that being a major deterrent. If I have enough household members that we need 4 bedrooms, I'd definitely want more than 1 bathroom.
Is it normal to not have grass in the outdoor area?
Have you considered allowing pets with a fee/deposit?
The kitchen seems small and inefficient. Which brings me back to the whole, if I have enough household members for a 4 bedroom, I need a larger kitchen!
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes9y
Don't take this the wrong way, but the picture from the front makes your place look unprofessional and like a dump. I don't think the front of this house is anything special to see (I grew up in the city) so I would probably put your best picture forward and move that one back in the grouping, and maybe even retake it with the tacky "For Rent" sign gone or blotted out. Other thing is that according to Zillow you are on the very high end of this scale. Houses that don't rent, assuming there's an audience and no unreasonable barriers to entry (i.e 5 months rent in advance, 800 credit score, etc), lack perceived value for the price. So the people that see your house compare it to other houses, decide it's nothing special, and move on.
Skyline Properties - Blue Bell, PA · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 2 votes9y
Originally posted by @Sara K.:
The updates you've done look nice, overall the unit looks clean.
Keep in mind I'm not familiar with your market, so I'm just spitballing.
4 bedrooms is higher than average here (see much more 3 bedrooms) plus with only 1 bathroom, I can see that being a major deterrent. If I have enough household members that we need 4 bedrooms, I'd definitely want more than 1 bathroom.
Is it normal to not have grass in the outdoor area?
Have you considered allowing pets with a fee/deposit?
The kitchen seems small and inefficient. Which brings me back to the whole, if I have enough household members for a 4 bedroom, I need a larger kitchen!
Its normal in this area as its city type life. Most places don't have a backyard. I might allow pets with fee and will think that over.
The Kitchen is actually not that small is spacious when you get in it. There is then a door that opens to the back yard.
- Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
The front photo and the street with the overpass are not the most attractive. Since you've had many showing maybe the photos are ok. But since you had many showings and only one application something is wrong, and I would suggest that the people coming are expecting more for their money.
I think in both renting and selling, it always come down to the money. If the rent was half of what your asking it would rent the first day. I'm not suggesting charging half rent but somewhere between what you are charging and half of what you're charging the is a point of equilibrium between the minimum you'll take and the maximum that a tenant will pay.
I've rented properties for many year. When there is turn over there are a few things that I do. I always use Craigslist and Zillow for renting, rarely do I put a sign on the property unless there is a fair amount of traffic. But I don't like to rent on streets with lots of traffic, no double yellow lines for me. I also don't rent places that don't have off street parking, maybe a garage, maybe a carport, or maybe just a driveway.
I will look at comparable ads on CL and Zillow to look at their pix, what looks good what doesn't and what rents are they charging, and how old are their ads. In addition, I'll test ad putting in an ad higher than I think it will rent for just to validate my rent. If I rent at the higher price, good for me. If the rent is too high for the product, then a lower the rent and get it rented, which is alos good for me.
I'll also look at rentometer, just to see that they have to say about the rent price.
Remember its always about the price$$$$$$$. Sometimes lowering the asking price $20 does the trick, but I never want vacancy for 30 days, my goal is 14 days or less, and I might lower rent every week to get it rented.
I've bought and sold over 900 properties and have lost track of how many tenants I've had, but its been a lot. Vacancy is a killer and I've had several 30 year tenants, I had one tenant that I didn't see for 24 years, which was alright with me as long as they paid the rent.
Bigger Pockets Podcast #82 guest
- Blue Bell, PA · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 2 votes9y
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
Don't take this the wrong way, but the picture from the front makes your place look unprofessional and like a dump. I don't think the front of this house is anything special to see (I grew up in the city) so I would probably put your best picture forward and move that one back in the grouping, and maybe even retake it with the tacky "For Rent" sign gone or blotted out. Other thing is that according to Zillow you are on the very high end of this scale. Houses that don't rent, assuming there's an audience and no unreasonable barriers to entry (i.e 5 months rent in advance, 800 credit score, etc), lack perceived value for the price. So the people that see your house compare it to other houses, decide it's nothing special, and move on.
Thanks for the feedback. I will switch some photo's around.
The area is Manyunk and its only 1.5 blocks walking to the train and main street so i know location is solid. We did a pretty good job comparing surrounding rentals and again, the comps were a lot smaller or just dumps when you went inside them
- Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
One place I re-rented this year, put ad on CL, scheduled group appoint (that is singular) for 3 people, got 3 good applications, selected 1, and signed a 2 year lease, WITHOUT a single day of vacancy. The tenant departing was there 3 years, so I'll have 5 years with no vacancy. The departing tenant cleaned, had the carpets steam cleaned professionally and removed all their belongings and trash, before the end of their lease and the new tenant moved in the first day of the month.
- 9yMatt LeonardPro MemberLondonderry, NH · Member since 2015 · 98 posts · 89 votesEchoing a previous poster, that first picture should go away. The rest are just ok. I don't know what a professional photographer would cost in your area, but I would think it would be less than 500 bucks. They can take some fantastic pictures and do some lighting to make it bright and cheery, and you always have those pictures for future listings. Seems like well worth the money. I didn't see that you had mentioned listing it on Craigslist. On my last rental listing (last month, I listed it on CL, Zillow, hotpads, cozy, and some others. I would say 80% of my traffic came, and my eventual tenants, through CL. I would also recommend scheduling open houses as opposed to doing individual tours or viewings. This would let you get a lot of people in at one time and hopefully create a little competition to make someone want to act fast.
Jeff, can I ask, do you need to get $1800 in rent in order to cash flow?
A vacancy period of 1.5 months and only one applicant during that time makes me think the pricing may be significantly off base. Who is your key demographic? Are you envisioning a family renting it, or 4 students, or something else?
Larger sq ft and amount of bedrooms isn't always better. Are the smaller comps rented?
- Blue Bell, PA · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 2 votes9y
Originally posted by @Sara K.:
Jeff, can I ask, do you need to get $1800 in rent in order to cash flow?
A vacancy period of 1.5 months and only one applicant during that time makes me think the pricing may be significantly off base. Who is your key demographic? Are you envisioning a family renting it, or 4 students, or something else?
Larger sq ft and amount of bedrooms isn't always better. Are the smaller comps rented?
Demographic in this area is young adults and college students/grads who like being close to all the restaurants/bars/festivals within 2 minute walking. Its right outside Center City Philadelphia in a fun bar/event area Manayunk. Easy 20 min train ride to Center City and all the universities in the area.
Motrgage/Tax/Insurance Escrow around $1050-1100 so not sure what the cut off should be on rental income. Thoughts?
Put 20% down and about 10K for upgrades due to the initial setback with 1st contractor.
I would have to check about the small comps in the area and I brought that point up to my wife.
- Flipper · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2017 · 218 posts · 345 votes9y
Here's one of the original shots that appears on Cozy:
Here's my rework of it after 10 minutes in Photoshop:
You've got feet in the door, you might think that the photos aren't going to matter so much. But they do. Real estate photos, in the age of Photoshop, are an extension of curb appeal. Your photos are dark and the camera isn't straight.
Looking at the pictures.. the exterior pics IMO are what it's not getting rented. No offense, but your exterior pictures don't make me excited to spend nearly $2K/mo on rent... I'd really recommend painting the railings white, and maybe put some flower beds outside, or a nice welcome mat? Maybe time for a power wash? Also when you take your pictures, try to avoid the other house, as when I saw it, I just thought "wow, you'll be seeing your neighbor a lot!" For the pictures, I'd also remove the trash cans.. if you have it in the budget, paint can do wonderful things!
Definitely remove the for Rent Sign, it doesn't scream high end or top dollar.
Lastly, yours in only a 4/1, so while I don't know your market, I know that the price needs to reflect that and most people will pick a 1.5,2 over a 1. Good luck!
- Fountain Valley, CA · Member since 2017 · 19 posts · 8 votes9y
What are interested parties saying? And what positive feedback are you getting? That might clue you in on why they aren't applying.
Rent is about average for your area for how many bedrooms it is. The 1 bathroom is the turnoff, but not a deal breaker if your location is indeed good. A family might be your only option. Students and randoms would find sharing a bathroom inconvenient if there are better options out there. - Accountant · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 303 posts · 210 votes9y
Try including padmapper for listings as well. The price looks pretty reasonable, but it's a lot of college post-grad in the area so most lease ups happen in the summer.
- Investor · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 606 posts · 699 votes9y
Udemy has a great $10 course on real estate photography for realtors, but LLs find it helpful, too. It is hard to take good photographs of empty spaces, so light staging would help immensely.
- South Bend, IN · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 6 votes9yI looked at the cozy listing and if I was looking for a rental some of the pictures would turn me away from even call to inquire more. the first picture with the tools and ladder on the floor, an A/C unit can be seen in the closet mirror. The door knob in the bathroom doesn't seem to match as well as the bare wood hand rail on the steps. I don't know much about your market so I can't comment there, but those things would alone would keep me from calling. Compared to market rents are you higher or lower?
- Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 344 posts · 276 votes9y
Hi @Jeff Schleyer, I think two things may be going on here. One, competition. There are a large number of units for rent in the area. You are not only competing in the Manayunk area but at this rate you are also competing with Center City. This is a high end rental area so the folks who will rent here will have to have a much higher income than the median renter in the city. One of my rental strategies, if it works for you, is I find out what my competition is renting for on average and cut it my 5-10% (depending on the area). I really believe this has enabled me to rent quickly.
Secondly, the type of renter you will attract is a consideration as well. Since it is a 4 bed, a small family, couple, or group of girls or guys, I would think would be your likely renters. These are the folks you need to market to. I know this area attracts a lot of new Penn State Grads who like to roommate. I think your best shot at this is to figure out a way to market the house as a great roommate rental.
I agree with @Account Closed in that the rent is reasonable. But keep in mind the renter will have to budget the payment of all utilities into the total rent. This could put the rental out of reach for many. So, if you factor this in, lower the rent a bit might bring in a whole new group of potential renters.
- I noticed the ad says 4bedroom and 1fullbath? Is that a typo? If not that may put some potential renters off.Is it possible that it is at least 1.5 bath? I will advise you hire a realtor to help with the listing.It worked for me and it's well worth it.
- Real Estate Broker · Temecula, CA · Member since 2014 · 994 posts · 783 votes9y
THe place looks pretty nice. 1 bathroom brings down the value to almost everyone. Drop the price $100, or give a $400 rent credit for the first month (this way the rent stays high for future months) bit will garnish some interest.
- Real Estate Agent · Media, PA · Member since 2017 · 361 posts · 250 votes9y
Hey @Jeff Schleyer, I'll echo what a few others have said. I think the place looks nice but I compared it with other recently settled rentals in Manayunk and it is priced on the high side for 4/1s . 185 Gay St, Philadelphia, PA 19127 is a 4/1 that went for $1650 a month with tenant paying all utilities. I think some light staging and some brighter photos would help drive traffic to it. Depending on how soon you need to rent it, I might drop the price down to $1750 or $1700 as well (people do look at the Zestimate, and in this case its not actually too far off). $1650 is median rented price for the 4 br places within .25 miles of your property (last 180 days) on MLS.
I won't claim to be a Manayunk expert (I did go to PSU though so maybe that helps qualify me haha!), but it does seem like 1 bath to 4 bedrooms may be a turnoff to people. Nobody wants to wait for someone else to use the facilities. You also might be fighting the fact that people have already moved around for the summer and are mostly settled into their apartments for the year.
I can email you some rentals straight from the MLS if you want to see what has been recently rented in that area. There is plenty of data for it. Shoot me a message with your email address if interested.
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