Need Feedback from tried and true landlords/buy and holders

Need Feedback from tried and true landlords/buy and holders

Accountant · Member since 2008 · 119 posts · 52 votes

I am looking for the guys who live and breathe this business with ACTUAL notches on their belts, rather than just completing the latest and greatest seminar (no offense, as I am a rookie too) to evaluate my proposed real estate strategy I'd like to begin implementing this week.

A little background information: I'm 22 years old, a recent college graduate in Accounting and am currently employed at a CPA firm here in town (about to begin studying for the CPA exam...pray for me). I live on the Mississippi Gulf Coast and have always had a passion for real estate (I get it from my grandpa I believe).

Anyway, here is a rough game plan for how I want to build my business. I'm focusing strictly on cashflowing rentals for long term appreciation and basically buy and hold (I need them to be strong cashflow performers so I can actually follow through with the 'hold' part of "buy and hold"). This is truly a "get rich slowly" strategy and I'm OK with that.

ACQUISITION:

I've just formed my LLC and am opening a business account to stick EVERY extra dollar in I have each month. I'm on a strict budget (I'm an accountant, remember?) and am trying to sack away as much cash as possible to buy a cheap first property with cash in the next year or two. In this area, you lower end working class rentals can be had for $45k-100k roughly and depending on the area will pull between $500-1100/month in rent.

As I'm saving up money for my first deal, I am getting maps of the area and basically zoning it out by price ranges and also by market rental rates (when I can find that). I'm trying to get a good cross-section of the market I'm working with and also a feel for the areas of the coast that are more likely to contain properties closest to the 50% 2% rule. While I'm saving up the money, I figure its prime time to get to really know my market and I'm going to commit time daily to get to know everything about my market I can. I feel this is critical for landlords rather than buying and praying you're in a good area.

Fast forward to a year or two and I've got money to buy a property cash, or nearly cash. I buy the property, get it rented through my system I am creating (more on that later), and have good cashflow (from both the 50% 2% rule AND no debt servicing requirements). I take the cashflow from this property (after setting aside roughly 50% in a seperate account for an 'emergecy expense fund, i.e. new roof, etc' + continue my contributions to the business account monthly. Now with a larger monthly contribution than originally done, I should be able to stack up money faster to acquire a second property with cash, or nearly cash in about another year or 2. Repeat the process, snowball both property cashflow + personal contribution and should be able to buy a property in a year or two again. Basically I want to keep snowballing the cashflow to buy property cash like this and not personally draw anything off the LLC until way later in life when I get tired of being a CPA. I figure by age 45 if I've been diligent I should have a nice cashflow situation and built in equity from appreciation. After about 10 years of this I should be buying properties 2 or 3x a year. All along I will have never sold a property (unless certain circumstances make it a very good deal) and will have a large net worth in my real estate portfolio and a strong cash flow position. I feel I will have mitigated risk as much as possible in this game.

TENANT PLACEMENT:

I am going through all of Bigger Pockets and finding everything I can about effective Tenant Placement and am going to try to build a system that works for me. I will have tenants understanding that if they don't play by my rules, they are out. They are not my friend, they are a customer. (I'm not heartless, I'm just not going to waste time and money on a deadbeat, I will stick to this philosophy within reason.)

Once I've got enough properties to make management a full time job, I'm outsourcing to a property manager and will focus my efforts on managing my property manager.

EXPENSES:

Mentioned earlier, I realize that on average 50% of collected rents go to expenses along the life of the properties so I will set 50% aside diligently in the LLC's savings emergency fund to kick Murphy out of the business.

MY LOGIC:

I am risk adverse. I've seen way too many landlords not treat this as a business and buy too high, negative cashflow (in hopes of appreciation??), have a bump in the road personally (and can't pay the negative cashflow!) and ultimately file BK. I'm not buying these to "live" on in the short term, so I really want the ensure that I can hold these for the long term while also building up funds to acquire more and more properties and ultimately be a huge property snowball for me. I'm a huge believer in systems and systemizing things to be as efficient as possible and will do this as much as possible.

Don't tell me that I need to keep a mortgage on a property for the tax deduction...NEXT...you pay out 10,000 to the bank to save 3,000 from Uncle Sam. If your CPA tells you to take out a loan for the tax deduction, GET A NEW CPA WHO CAN DO MATH.

Anyway, where are my flaws? I'm looking to move on this soon. Thanks! Sorry for the long post!

Daniel J. Payne

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
16y

Daniel,

Sounds like a very reasonable plan. If you wanted, there are certainly low-risk ways to jump-start your plan to likely allow you to generate the same amount of cash-flow without waiting 20+ years.

Leverage -- when used wisely -- is your friend. Certainly overleveraging is a bad thing and can ruin your business prospects, but conservative use of leverage to allow you to purchase an extra property or two or three during this recessionary period could allow you to grow your portfolio much more quickly than if you wait another 3 or 4 years to own even two properties.

That said, slow and steady is never a bad thing...if you're okay waiting 20 years instead of 10, that's a perfectly fine decision...

Congrats on the early start and great plan!

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  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    16y

    Sounds like you will be commingling funds, when you say that "leftover" income from your job will be placed into the bank account of the LLC. Do this as a capital contribution or loan or ...

  • Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    I'm sure that you know how to account for the capital contributions. Sounds like you have a working plan. You will be creating some taxable income and may want to look at ways of dealing with that.

    Since you will be buying these properties all free and clear you won't have to worry about some of the limits imposed when you try to finance more than 5 investments (heard this got bumped to 9, not confirmed it yet).

    You may give some thought down the road to 1031 exchanges. It may make sense.

    I often look at properties that not only cash flow, but have other potential opportunities.

    Not all CPAs are risk adverse. I suspect you will do just fine on the CPA exam. Much different than from when I took it.

  • Accountant · Member since 2008 · 119 posts · 52 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Steve Babiak:
    Sounds like you will be commingling funds, when you say that "leftover" income from your job will be placed into the bank account of the LLC. Do this as a capital contribution or loan or ...


    This is a capital contribution, not a co-mingling of funds. Co-mingling of funds would be buying my friends rounds of beer on rent proceeds while the money is still in the business account....
  • Accountant · Member since 2008 · 119 posts · 52 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Charles Perkins:
    I'm sure that you know how to account for the capital contributions. Sounds like you have a working plan. You will be creating some taxable income and may want to look at ways of dealing with that.

    Since you will be buying these properties all free and clear you won't have to worry about some of the limits imposed when you try to finance more than 5 investments (heard this got bumped to 9, not confirmed it yet).

    You may give some thought down the road to 1031 exchanges. It may make sense.

    I often look at properties that not only cash flow, but have other potential opportunities.

    Not all CPAs are risk adverse. I suspect you will do just fine on the CPA exam. Much different than from when I took it.


    Thanks for your reply. I see you're a CPA...has this field helped you in your investing world? Yeah I'm sure later down the road a 1031 exchange could be very beneficial if I came onto another deal that was even sweeter. This is just my direction I want to head in and I'm sure I will be course adjusting as I actually get involved in it.

    I know not all CPA's are risk adverse, but for me I want to mitigate it as much as possible. I don't think I would sleep at night knowing I'm upside down on a few of the properties I own and having staying power is important to me. Thanks for the input!

  • Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    Daniel, I think it helps to understand finance and tax rules. There are pitfalls that investors can and do fall into knowing these can be quite beneficial.

    As a numbers guy, I think it easier to build a financial understanding of your farm (market area). It also tends to help in reviewing some misguided financial statements and in analyzing the numbers. Knowing what is or is not a good deal is half the battle. Money is made an lost on the day you purchase the property. Buying negative cash flow has a serious impact on anyone's life.

    I use leverage to buy properties, but I make sure that there is solid cash flow and I set aside reserves to cover the capex costs that will come along.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y

    Daniel,

    Sounds like a very reasonable plan. If you wanted, there are certainly low-risk ways to jump-start your plan to likely allow you to generate the same amount of cash-flow without waiting 20+ years.

    Leverage -- when used wisely -- is your friend. Certainly overleveraging is a bad thing and can ruin your business prospects, but conservative use of leverage to allow you to purchase an extra property or two or three during this recessionary period could allow you to grow your portfolio much more quickly than if you wait another 3 or 4 years to own even two properties.

    That said, slow and steady is never a bad thing...if you're okay waiting 20 years instead of 10, that's a perfectly fine decision...

    Congrats on the early start and great plan!

  • Real Estate Investor · Hartville, OH · Member since 2010 · 148 posts · 174 votes
    16y

    Your game plan is almost identical to mine. I have a short term 5 year plan to acquire around 15 properties. At five years I'll do a complete review and decide if I want to either liquidate, stay at a steady state or grow. If I decide to grow then I want to acquire 20 more properties. At the end of 10 years I should own around 35 units.

    I'm taking the all cash route as well, so in 10 years having 35 paid for units generating cash should be enough for me to step out of my job and pursue this full time.

  • Handyman · THUMB, MI · Member since 2010 · 72 posts · 14 votes
    16y

    Daniel,
    Your plan was a lot like mine, but i changed my tune on borrowing from the banks once I figured out how much faster I could grow with their money. Plus if I had waited the 5 to 7 years that it was going to take to reach 4 houses then the prices would have surely been up closer to were they were 2 years ago. Being able to buy at a 50% discount definitely out ways 7% interest rate from the bank. I don't know if the homes in your area are cheap right now or not but if they are you might want to consider using a little leverage in your favor. I agree with JScott you could really increase the speed that you grow with some help. I think the hardest part is getting to 4 houses, once you get there the snowball effect will really pick up steam. Obviously you will not want to be over leveraged but a little isn't a horrible thing either.
    I even did the unthinkable and cashed in a small pension i had and paid a huge penalty on it and I can smile about it because I know I made that money back the day i inked the deal on one of my houses, now if i could just get my hands on my 401k funds. LOL.......These are crazy times and sometimes you need to think outside the box.

  • Accountant · Member since 2008 · 119 posts · 52 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by DAVID GAGE:
    Daniel,
    Your plan was a lot like mine, but i changed my tune on borrowing from the banks once I figured out how much faster I could grow with their money. Plus if I had waited the 5 to 7 years that it was going to take to reach 4 houses then the prices would have surely been up closer to were they were 2 years ago. Being able to buy at a 50% discount definitely out ways 7% interest rate from the bank. I don't know if the homes in your area are cheap right now or not but if they are you might want to consider using a little leverage in your favor. I agree with JScott you could really increase the speed that you grow with some help. I think the hardest part is getting to 4 houses, once you get there the snowball effect will really pick up steam. Obviously you will not want to be over leveraged but a little isn't a horrible thing either.
    I even did the unthinkable and cashed in a small pension i had and paid a huge penalty on it and I can smile about it because I know I made that money back the day i inked the deal on one of my houses, now if i could just get my hands on my 401k funds. LOL.......These are crazy times and sometimes you need to think outside the box.


    I certainly understand that, and I'm not afraid of leverage at all. Trust me, I understand the pros and cons of both methods, but to me it's a security issue. A little leverage on a few properties would not make me uncomfortable. What I'm talking about are these deals where people get 5-10 houses with less than 3% equity in each deal and also have a negative cashflow of -100 or at BEST a positive of $75 a month/door. That to me is a recipe for disaster. I want to build my business around it operating on its own income, and not me having to feed it each month from my CPA income in hopes of appreciation.

    If the numbers made sense, there was a strong cashflow position and a good appreciating market, I would consider buying it with less than 100% down. I mean even if I took out a 15 year fixed on the property and serviced the debt with rental income, I would own the property outright by age 37 (assuming I didn't vary from the amortization schedule).

    Basically, I completely understand the numbers side of it. With leverage it looks like a no-brainer on paper, but what we can't account for is the risk that comes along with leverage. That is a little harder to quantify and factor into deals. 10 properties that cashflow $150/month, if you have mortgages on all 10 properties and you have vacancies on 3 of them, you are in a tight spot unless you've built up a solid emergency fund.

    It's all personal preference, I suppose, and I'm no expert seeing as this is just my PLAN. I'm sure I may adjust my course once I set sail on this journey.

  • Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
    16y

    You do not say what types of properties you will be investing in. I got into real estate because in the Army I heard of a Sgt major who had 15 free and clear houses. I thought that was a good idea. If child needs to go to college - sell one house and still have 14 left over. After getting to #2 my wife got out the calculator and showed me it would be better to get into an apt bldg. The price for a house was $65K that time and apt was for sale for $20K. Rents for the house were around $500-$600/month. The 2-bed apts were $400-$425/month. We sold the single family homes and moved the funds into a 27-unit all 2-bed apt bldg. Had we known about 1031 exchanges at the time, it would have helped on getting more of the money from the homes into the apt bldg. It made a BIG difference in reaching goals faster by buying apts vs houses!

  • Brian LevredgePro Member
    Investor · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 903 votes
    16y

    My two cents would be the following:

    Make sure you really understand the near and long term job metrics of your market. Without going into the political side of things, I would be nervous if your market was heavy into oil and gas and the related service industries that accompany that. Jobs are generally what drives appreciation in the long term so make sure that whatever market you choose to invest in is going to have solid prospects in that regard.

    You will see over time once you have a number of rentals that some of them will perform better than others due to any number of factors such as location, appearance, schools, etc. Do not be afraid to get rid of these for better opportunities. The same holds true for equity. That's great and all, but it doesn't pay the bills and having it sit, trapped in a property, isn't really you doing many favors either.

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