Rental Property Investor · Jefferson, GA · Member since 2017 · 95 posts · 145 votes
I have a new tenant that wants to vape. My PM has a no smoking/no vaping clause in her contract, and he (tenant) wants the vaping part removed. Does anyone have any experience with tenants that vape? Will vaping cause any permanent damage to the interior of the property?
Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
8y
I recommend keeping it simple and sticking with the lease (and let the PM handle it...don't dedicate mind share to these kinds of things). We are investors, not vaping damage testers.
Yeah he seems nice , amend the lease .. Then after a week he switches back to his trusty camel non filters , buys a pit bull and invites his wild drunken buddies over for weekend parties . Look if you start doing special favors and arrangements from the lease you are training them that you are a pushover and easily cave . You are the landlord you are in the power position not them you should adhere to the “golden rule “- you have the gold so you make the rules !
I am not sure that vaping is quite the slippery slope you described. Lots of hipsters vape and they couldn't choke down a camel no filter if their life depended on it. Still I agree, no reason to cave on this or anything.
Vaping leaves the resulting oil behind in which case can develop into what’s called “ popcorn lung” in a person from it being trapped in their lungs . that residue in the air is sticky and gets all over the place and of coarse the hazards of a potential fire . A lot of people switch to this in an effort to quit cigarettes but eventually go back to their cigs after a while .
Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
8y
There have been no cases of popcorn lung ever attributed to vaping. Popcorn lung was associated with the diacetyl in butter flavoring in a factory where workers inhaled the particulate over a period of time. TODAY VERY FEW vape juices use flavorings that contain diacetyl in any event.
There have been no cases of popcorn lung ever attributed to vaping. Popcorn lung was associated with the diacetyl in butter flavoring in a factory where workers inhaled the particulate over a period of time. TODAY VERY FEW vape juices use flavorings that contain diacetyl in any event.
That is why they call it popcorn lung, it was found with workers at a popcorn factory that had exposure to high concentrations of diacetyl. Just because something contains diacetyl doesn't mean you will get popcorn lung. Just like making microwave popcorn doesn't guarantee popcorn lung, but yes if you made a ton and breathed in the vapors, there could be a problem. Still I would argue that putting any chemicals in your lung is a bad idea. It is a free country, but messing with your lungs just isn't wise. There is not enough history or medical science behind e-cigarettes to state they are 100% safe. Heck for fifty years doctors went on TV saying cigarettes were safe.
Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 485 posts · 384 votes
8y
Keep the clause. Let the PM do their job. They will vape anyway. People are people. Five them a tad of fresno in heir full lives (no judgement, life can be hard). Just add preventative measures and insurance responsibilities to the tenant wanting this freedom/addiction. Smokers and pet lovers will pay extra for this freedom.
Aurora, CO · Member since 2016 · 158 posts · 118 votes
8y
I love these types of questions. You can see the different styles of management and different business policies of people on here. Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks. (Wait...can I not say that anymore? Did someone get offended?)
How about this: Assess an additional monthly vaping fee.
I agree with others that allowing them to change terms teaches them they have the power to modify leases when they feel like it.
If it costs money, they will rethink making modification requests.
If vaping genuinely causes no damage to your property and they want to do it indoors bad enough, you get extra money just in case. If they don't want to pay then they can vape outside.
If you want to survive in this business you will change your attitude toward leases. You are correct in that there is no problem with applicants asking for lease modifications. Asking indicates that they are not comfortable with your lease and if you accept them without agreeing to what they ask they will do it anyway and violate their lease. This is why you do not accept applicants that request lease changes.
If a landlord is prepared to modify their lease at a applicants request they either did not think through their requirements in advance or do not care to protect their investment.
If you are prepared to modify your lease to appease applicants you may as well not bother having a lease or screening standards to begin with.
How about this: Assess an additional monthly vaping fee.
I agree with others that allowing them to change terms teaches them they have the power to modify leases when they feel like it.
If it costs money, they will rethink making modification requests.
If vaping genuinely causes no damage to your property and they want to do it indoors bad enough, you get extra money just in case. If they don't want to pay then they can vape outside.
I agree. Isn't this what being in business is all about?
You look at the cost of providing the service versus the additional revenue you need to make a profit. Then you set your prices accordingly (which includes the "you couldn't afford to live here" answer).
Rental Property Investor · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 412 votes
8y
@Morgan Klein - here is the fundamental error new landlords make. You don't need an 'out.' You're in charge. You have policies, stick with them. The MOMENT you change a rule for a tenant, you have lost control. Lessons learned in the school of hard knocks.
I really disagree with all these hardline posts. I understand you guys are from flyover or the least-coast-- that does not mean you get a free pass on being arbitrarily retarded.
Someone asking you to change a rule means something-- they actually read the rules. Do you think your other tenants are going to ask?
Your other tenants would probably just vape. There is a difference between conceding and being reasonable.
Property Manager · NJ · Member since 2017 · 786 posts · 396 votes
8y
@Morgan Klein Its hard to tell what damage the vape fumes do to a properties interior, it depends on who you ask, some people say the fumes leave a lasting scent in the home. There is another consideration though it may be a small one, fire hazard, occasionally they explode, or overhead which can cause a fire or injury to the user. I'd stick with the PM contract, better to be safe than sorry.
Real Estate Broker · Tacoma, WA · Member since 2016 · 545 posts · 252 votes
8y
On top of "giving your Tenant an inch" before he/she even moves in, I still don't think anyone can conclusively say what the long term effects of vapor in an enclosed spaced are going to be. Lots of renters our there. Pass.
I would stay stick with your lease. If we real estate investors were changing our contracts every time someone say to remove something none of us would make money in real estate. Someone told me the other day I should not require a security deposit. My answer was " Thanks for coming but we require first last and security to move in. Are you able to provide that?"
Columbus, OH · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes
8y
Vaping should NOT have a negative affect on your property's interior, it doesn't contain all of the residue/smoke that traditional cigarette smoke contains. It is simply a vapor, and should dissipate into the air without residual coating. Candles are probably worse - unless they're made from soy.
Investor · Saskatchewan , Saskatchewan · Member since 2017 · 311 posts · 233 votes
8y
While you’re erasing, just erase their name from the top of the lease and find another tenant.
They’ll be using vaping as a reason on day 3 when they graduate to the one-hitter pipe if you don’t.
Rental Property Investor · Edison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 753 posts · 565 votes
8y
I would advise the PM to inform them that the contract can’t be amended but if they move out within 30 days and leave the apartment in good condition you will let them out of the lease. And then find a new tenant. You are not going to be able to police the client and they will likely turn out to be a hassle.
Specialist · Boston, MA · Member since 2018 · 75 posts · 7 votes
8y
What a controversy! Hi everyone. My name is Greg, I've been a landlord /property manager since 2006(just one unit).
I have a background in chemistry. One of my side ventures is vape juice "mixing". Basically finding a prototype to perhaps manufacture.
I recently hit the 3 year mark of being tobacco free.
Immediately I didn't even question the possibility that the evaporation/aerosol inhalation of two of the most commonly encountered food, cosmetic, and hygiene chemicals, glycerin and propelyne glycol, would be harmful whatsoever.
I heard the hype, I asked doctors. I asked biologists, chemists, I researched. Meanwhile effortlessly putting an end to 19 years of tobacco smoke. Ask anybody that has a true background in these sciences.
In short, tobacco involves burning something. Also known as a combustion reaction. Think of an automobile engine. Combustion reactions change lots of chemicals into lots of other chemicals, some of them being things like Carbon Monoxide, Tar, etc.
Vaping is just basically a humidifier. Actually I just looked at the ingredients in the humidifier liquid I have. Though much is also, of course, propelyne glycol(it's in everything) it also hassynthetic hydrocarbons similar to the newer freon refrigerants.
Everybody who understands the science knows that the anti vaping scare is a big joke. The government of England made a very big fuss about this:
If you own land, you get to decide what happens on your land. You have more influence than just your regular vote. You can make a statement. You can make a statement that's the complete opposite of mine. Or you can just stay focused on optimizing your investments.
Because I don't like cancer. Cancer took some friends from me. People I love. I would advise you to:
keep the clause on the lease, since it might become an issue with insurance. But tell the tenant you don't really care, but if they smoke even one cigarette in the house, there WILL be problems.
Chemically vaping is indistinguishable from all sorts of air fresheners and and the like. It's impossible to "catch" someone vaping anyway.
Here in the north east, in this state hardly any establishments allow vaping. Our neighbor Rhode Island has never told me to go outside to vape(in clubs).
My honest opinion based on my chemistry background is that the minor concentration of PG, which is antifungal, will actually prevent mold, and you might want to consider REQUIRING vaping in your lease. And indeed, this is an unusually honest tenant. Sorry tobacco companies and your PR campaigns, you are pathetically dying, but I have no pity for you.
Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
8y
If you take it out of this lease, might as well take it out of all leases. You had it in there for a reason (you or PM). It's your property, you don't have to apologize about what you want (within the rules of law). I have a 10 page lease, and none of it is negotiable. Applying to live in my property is their choice.