Landlord Tales and cautions

Landlord Tales and cautions

Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 8 votes

Happy Friday BP Nation!

I am still very new to the world of real estate investing but I think I’m going to go down the path of buying, holding and renting. Now I talk with my fiance about this and she immediately brings up all of the issues we’ve experienced in past places we ourselves have rented (Hot water was out for 2 weeks for the entire complex due to some landscaping guys busting a line in one apartment we lived in) and how she wouldn’t want to be the one directly having to deal with those issues. As well as crazy tenants destroying the property. Now, landscapers accidentally breaking a line can happen to anyone anywhere in my mind, accidents happen. My question to the more seasoned landlords of BP, is how crazy have your tenants gotten? Are people really just trashing places that often? I understand there are bad eggs but I have to think most people just leave regular wear and tear, am I wrong? I appreciate you sharing your past experiences, and everybody have a safe weekend!

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Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
8y

I have to echo @Terrell Garren here. I did my first flip when I was 30. I waited until I was 39 to start investing in rentals. Yes, I was doing other things, yes they were important, but I wish I had started earlier. That is my main regret in this business, and I would say my only significant regret.

I rent out apartments in the C-D range in the nicest parts of rough urban neighborhoods. I self-manage those apartments, and I also do most of the maintenance and upkeep. My tenants have my cell phone number. You might call me a slumlord, but the police certainly don't. They call me an example of the kind of affordable-housing landlord that is part of the solution to the housing problems of the urban ghetto.

I won't tell you how much I have invested in real estate. That would be idiotic on a forum like this one. But I do have $33,000 in a legacy rollover IRA that a certified financial planner invests for me, and I will tell you that I think of that money as peanuts when it comes to retirement income, as any reasonable person should.

All the people I am still in touch with from high school and college have, at best, two nice cars, a nice home, a stack of monthly bills a mile high, family photos take by professionals, and money saved up in a 401K. I went to an unreasonable upscale suburban high school and hung out with smart people so a few of my old friends  are now well-paid professionals, some married well, but the pattern is always the same. Two started businesses that eventually failed and went back to the corporate world, but that's it.

This year, my $33K, invested in mutual funds and ETFs, has remained $33K. I haven't made a penny on that money. My financial planner sweats bullets every time I talk to him, reassuring me that the market is going to go up, up, up, that this is wise investing for the future, that everything is fine.

That guy drives a BMW, lives in a half-million dollar house out in the sticks, and really likes glen plaid suits, double cuffs with cufflinks, and the kind of overly stylish business footwear that I refer to as "clown shoes." He is well aware that he is really failing in managing the test money I've invested with him. When I first met him, I asked him a simple question I got off real estate records: why did he sell a $170,000 house in a nice neighborhood and move to his $500,000 house in the sticks two years before?

His answer was telling: after hemming and hawing a bit, he explained it was so that his kids could have a nice backyard, truly the most ludicrous explanation of why it was necessary to take a $300,000 mortgage that I've ever heard. He then insisted, in a slightly shrill tone, that, "I am NOT house poor!"

I am just curious, at this stage, to see if he's going to make me ANY money by December. If not, I'll move the money elsewhere. This guy is at the absolute mercy of the markets. Sooner or later, when the business cycle turns, he's going to see a lot of the money under his management go bye-bye. It's as inevitable as the next sunrise. When that happens, my financial planner's going to get hammered. His high expenses will keep rolling along nicely, but his income will take a high-dive belly flop.

My financial planner, and my friends, are all in the same boat. They are one or two crises away from an economic bust. The people that I am friends with are all married, and their spouses work. Anything happens with their spouse or their spouse's job? Bust. Any health problems? Bust. Job loss? Bust. Any other major economic upheaval in their lives? Bust.

And every day, they log into their online accounts, look at their 401K, and hope they made money and didn't lose it that day. They will vote for any idiot who promises them that under their administration, the stock market will go through the roof.

Some of my friends are going to be working at Starbucks or McDonalds in their early sixties. That's statistically unavoidable. The bust will happen. The 401K will drop in value, The numbers won't add up, and the despair will set in. The American Dream will prove to be a lie for them.

But that's not what I worry about for my future.

I worry that someday, someone close to me is going to come and tell me that their child needs medical care that isn't covered under their medical insurance, and I won't have enough money to write a check for them. I think that the charity that I intend to endow in the future won't get enough to really do what I think it can do as a well-funded charity if I stop doing what I do now. I worry that someday, some deranged neo-Nazi party in the country of my birth may gain enough power to do real damage and I wouldn't be able to put any financial muscle behind organizations that will work to do something about it.

Convince your wife to get into this, Joseph. It's actually pretty difficult to screw up royally if you do your best to look ahead, make conservative estimates, aren't afraid to get your hands dirty, and keep your ego small and manageable. No, this is not an easy business. But it beats the pants off a cubicle and an online 401K account that you just hope doesn't lose any money today. There's a learning curve. So start small. Learn steadily. Work much harder than you expect for at least the first 10 years. It will get better.

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  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    You can’t get into landlording thinking that it’ll be a walk in the park. Like any job, there’s a lot to learn, a lot to know, and at times, quite a bit of work. You (and your fiancée) have to understand this and be ready for it. There will be problems, but 99% of the time, they really aren’t big problems. Sure they’ll be a leak or an overflowing toilet or whatever ‘catastrophe’, but after you deal with it a few times, it’s just a matter of calling a plumber, coordinating some work, and maybe meeting them at the house. It’s not a huge deal, and that 2 hours you spent, you made a few hundred dollars that same month. Not a bad deal. As a reasonably new landlord, most of the task is learning to deal with issues and not freak out. It takes some practice, but is doable! Look at your financial future together compared to the work involved.
  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    8y
    I can say through my life that whenever I thought of a landlord I always had this concept of a person who manages the building .. once I became one I understand that it’s much more about managing people . The reality sets in and you realize that You are basically buying a job and your new job is supervise adult sized toddlers! They do stupid things and need guided and trained like a pet . Honestly I hate to say it like that but it’s true !This is especially true in a lower class neighborhood . All that being said you will get an incredible cash return compared to other investments if you play your cards right . Sure beats parking your money in a savings account making .02 percent or gambling on stocks atleast in my opinion
  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    Properly screening the tenants is super important.   I'd rather have the place vacant than find a bad tenants.  Here are some examples of bad tenants:  Non payers, selling drugs in the place, attracting the wrong type of crowd, disrespectful to other tenants, hard on the units, etc..

    Another way to lose if to find tenants who are too transitory.  My profits depend on the tenants staying more than a year.  The turnover is too expensive.

    There are lots of techniques for screening, so I won't mention them here.  But educate yourself.

  • Catskill, NY · Member since 2018 · 636 posts · 668 votes
    8y

    I helped manage 100 units for about 6 years. The worst we had were dirty tenants that didn't pay rent. However, after seeing those few bad apples, I can remember saying that I would never invest in RE. Fast forward a few years and the owners of the house next to me offered me interest free seller financing. So we bought it. My wife was a little nervous and some family members told us how stupid we were because of bad tenants, law suits, etc. A year later, the same people offered us another house with the same terms. 4 years later and we have had no major issues. A few unexpected expenses, but that's all. Now, the same family members who called us stupid are wanting to invest with us...and no, I am not going to do that. The point is is that there is risk in anything you do. You just have to decide if it's worth it. My wife sometimes says "well, what if this or that bad thing happens?" My response is "what if it doesn't?" She's also pretty hands off of the whole thing. I handle it all am I'm ok with that. Start small and ease into it so your future wife isn't so stressed about it. And maybe only invest the amount of money you can "afford" to lose. 

  • Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Joseph Lucas Jr  We started buying Phoenix rentals during the downturn and it's all manageable.  if you are self managing you just need to use a good screening company to run credit and background.  Risk is the likelihood on not achieving your goal.

  • Little Rock, AR · Member since 2016 · 26 posts · 24 votes
    8y

    I'm not a landlord, but I have many as clients and business associates. The people who have done poorly have:

    1. Not treated landlording/real estate investment as a business, instead usually are renting out a house they used to live in instead of selling it. They get blindsided by tenant destruction since they never inspected or screened seriously.
    2. Don't realize how illiquid real estate can be in even a good market. I know a person who wanted a piece of raw land to pay for a child's college, and was surprised and angry that it took over a year to sell raw land in the country. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. I also know a person whose attitude was that, if the needed money, they could sell or borrow on their vacation rentals on the gulf. Until the recession, banking crisis, and the BP oil spill messed that plan up. Oopsie.
    3. Not screened tenants/managed stupidly. One guy tried to tell me that I was stupid for looking to invest in real estate (literally his words) because he had a tenant buy air conditioning units for his rent house, which he gave them a cut on rent for, and then the tenant left with "his" units. Did he write out a contract on the units or have any receipts? No, but it was real estate's fault because real estate is a bad investment. Not his.
    4. Overleverage: most individual re investors starting out are encouraged to have 80%+ leverage on their properties (higher if you count the credit cards), when 70%+ is pretty rowdy for an institutional investor, and 50% is generally thought of as reasonable in institutional circles. A few simultaneous no-pays in your portfolio can kick off a bankruptcy if you don't have ready cash for payments.

    My take-aways so far have been:

    • RE investment is extremely cash intensive, you *must* have cash or access to cash. Large amounts of cash.
    • RE is management intensive, and not at all passive. They say the farmer's shadow is the best fertilizer for a reason. You can't be lazy/ignorant and succeed at this business long-term.

    Also, your wife is smart. from what I've seen directly, husbands take all the fun, interesting work for themselves, and then recruit their unwilling wives for all the boring grunt work. If she's going to be involved because she wants to, that's fine. But, if she's not interested, then you're probably singing up for a ruined marriage. RE investing is so time and money intensive, she will probably resent being dragged along and recruited for doing emergency grunt work "just this one time." She'll also resent losing the time with you, weekends, and vacations, and having erratic income that she can't plan for and occasional big expenses that create marital strife.

    This comes across as super-negative, but the question is kind-of phrased that way. I've (personally and directly in my own sphere of business associates) heard of probably 9 misfortunes involved in real estate for every 1 fortune.

    I do know a wealthy person who has a successful portfolio of many rentals which are almost entirely paid off, but this person is extremely professional, hard-working, and involved in the business, and financially cautious. This person was successful. I'm choosing to follow this person's example in investing.

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