Need advice around prop mgt fees/buying wrong

Need advice around prop mgt fees/buying wrong

Derby, KS · Member since 2016 · 32 posts · 6 votes

I am going to keep this as short as possible because I feel I could write a book at this point.

I bought a duplex for $60k 1.5 years ago (my first and only property so far). It was ripped down to the studs and remodeled. Brand new everything. The property is in a weird spot, a block north is solid C neighborhood, two blocks south is solid D to D-.

The property has been nothing but issues for me...between tenants being tenants, crappy potential tenants wanting to view, I cant even count the amount of time wasted. Yes partially my fault in the beginning, I was a little anxious to get someone in place and probably should have held out longer. Also the guy who remodeled warrantied nothing and used the cheapest stuff from online he could find, so I have had a heater go out that I had to track down a part online because no one carries them around here, and now I have an evap coil out, and have to replace the entire unit on the other side. Its a write off though right? :)

Lets talk about finances now for a better picture.... I took at loan on $45k of the $60k currently my mortgage/insurance is $425. The unit is full, and I make $475/side ($950 total).

I am at the point of going with two options...trying to hire out the work I find stressful, or selling the property and taking the cash and going after a BRRRR strategy. My goal is for my wife and I to retire in the next 8-10 years.

On the Property Management side I am having a hard time justifying numbers on it...how do you guys make money while paying this? 

Lets say I take $100/side pure cashflow. Thats $2400/year at full occupancy. That leaves $3900, or 34% for capex, repair, vac, and prop mgt. 34% should be plenty right?

Around here, property management fees are 1 full months rent to place a tenant, then 10% per month. So if 1 tenant is needed on each side per year, which I feel might be realistic for this property, thats $950 plus $1140, so $2090 a year to run this property.

$2090 in prop mgt fees drops the $3900 to $1810. Thats without me getting a lawn service to take that off my plate, currently I do all the yardwork on the property. Thats probably another $50-$100, though I havent looked into it for sure. At $50/mo that drops the $1210/a month for capex, repairs, and vacancy....Ive spent that on repairs alone in the last 1.5 years...not including vac, capex, etc.

I feel like if I go someone else managing it I will be in the Red....am I missing something here?? I do know I probably bought either high or over-leveraged...but the ROI is PLENTY with me managing it.

My other thought is the market is still over-priced, I could sell it and move towards a single family house I can BRRRR to grow my portfolio. This was my plan for the next property I buy anyways..having that extra cash from selling this could aid it.

I am in the Wichita, KS area if that helps at all.

Looking for any and all advice here.....

Thanks!

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Corby GoadeBusiness Member
Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
8y

I don't think you are missing anything- the way people get around this is by scaling. Sure, it eats in to your cash flow, but if you do this 50 times, that begins to be a lesser problem.

If I may...how many properties do you own/manage? I hear your stress and my first property or two were exactly the same, but I changed my mindset. For me, there aren't really "crappy" tenants, it's crappy management. If you have a tenant driving you insane, being unreasonable, crazy turnover, etc, that's a management issue, not a tenant issue. Better screening, better systems, more communication, etc- that will change things. Don't get me wrong, I've had tenants with great income, great references and great credit that were still annoying, but in general, better management leads to better tenants, and you can achieve this either on your own OR buy hiring a great property manager.

Best of luck!

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  • Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 221 posts · 188 votes
    8y
    @Nick K. I would sell if you can get what you want. Then next purchases, always include the property mgmt expense even if you self manage. Like they say "buy right". Also target tired landlords and try creative strategies with acquiring from them. Goodluck!
  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y
    @Nick K. At 475 a unit that’s gonna be hard to make money on when you have turnovers or maintenance. Your water heater goes out (New one costs me around 1k) that’s like 2.5 months rent lol
  • Derby, KS · Member since 2016 · 32 posts · 6 votes
    8y

    So when I ran the numbers, even at $425 it made sense. When I ran the numbers, I was accounting for 10% property management. 

    What kills the numbers is the placement fee combined with higher turnover.

    I think I am going to look into section 8.

    For those of you experienced with Section 8, how do you screen differently? Or would you screen the exact same? Should be a difference of income requirement or something right? Credit score still the same?

    I might hold off for now on selling. There is heavy pros and cons to both selling and keeping.

    I am still not sure about the mowing thing...the units are not very big to begin with...plus the guy that rebuilt them only put 1 water hose outlet on the outside of the building....no idea why other than laziness/cost...

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Nick K.:
    I am still not sure about the mowing thing...the units are not very big to begin with...plus the guy that rebuilt them only put 1 water hose outlet on the outside of the building....no idea why other than laziness/cost...

     I'm not sure about Wichita, but in my area, I can get a plumber to run another water hose outlet for about $200.  That shouldn't be a deal breaker.  Call around for the best price.

  • Member since 2018 · 509 posts · 211 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Chuks Erinne:
    @Nick K. I would sell if you can get what you want. Then next purchases, always include the property mgmt expense even if you self manage.

    Like they say "buy right". Also target tired landlords and try creative strategies with acquiring from them.

    Goodluck!

     This Guy is a Tired LandlorD. 

    Buy price is $60,000. What were your remodel costs. 

    You will never break even. Plus your mind will be consumed with a bad thing. I call it wear on tear of the MIND. 

    Sell to an out of  town owner. 

  • Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2015 · 769 posts · 279 votes
    8y

    @Nick K.  where is your duplex located?  I'm from Wichita so am curious.

  • Derby, KS · Member since 2016 · 32 posts · 6 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Shane H.:

    @Nick K.  where is your duplex located?  I'm from Wichita so am curious.

     Lincoln and Oliver area. West of Oliver, north of Lincoln

  • Rental Property Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2018 · 52 posts · 33 votes
    8y

    Hello fellow Wichitians 

    Anyone else going to McCurdy auction August 2nd?

  • Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2015 · 769 posts · 279 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Nick K.:
    Originally posted by @Shane H.:

    @Nick K.  where is your duplex located?  I'm from Wichita so am curious.

     Lincoln and Oliver area. West of Oliver, north of Lincoln

    Yeah that's pretty sketch - probably Hilltop depending on the block and as Im sure you are aware the further west and closer to hillside you go the better it gets - whenever you start to hit the convent where Lincoln curves I've felt it starts to improve quite a bit.  Ive heard through the grapevine there's a landlord or two that do real well in Hilltop but it's something they specialize in - Ive probably heard the name at some point but have since forgotten it.  Message me your cell # and I may know a guy who knows a guy that could possibly help you or maybe he'd know someone wanting to buy it so you could move to an area more suitable for you.  I just got burnt if you've seen the thread for the first time in 12 years on a higher end rental so it really doesnt matter what level of folks you are dealing with...problems to be had at all classes.

    Sounds like you should be buying Jonathan Roper a coffee as well...ha - I know I could learn a thing or two from him dealing with the lower end rentals - nothing I've attempted yet.

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